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  1. #21
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    don't know if it works for everyone but the page i just linked was the first page of chapter 516. it says that they were able to mobilize their personal armies, and both armies numbered 10k.

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  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg boy View Post
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    don't know if it works for everyone but the page i just linked was the first page of chapter 516. it says that they were able to mobilize their personal armies, and both armies numbered 10k.
    it doesn't say their armies have 10k. it says they were allowed their own units and that two cities from near there sent 10k each.

  3. #23
    As the linked first page of chapter 516 said, the 10k soldiers are from en and bun city

    In fact if we're taking about personal unit, it's the 2k Raiun which is under the direct order of Gyou'un (and Dojaku for CGR)


    It's probably only about 5k maximum at their peak

  4. #24
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    seemed obvious to me that those statements weren't meant to be considered seperately.

    but even disregarding that, just observing their armies interactions throughout the campaign makes it clear that it's their personal armies. otherwise they wouldn't just know how to assume intricate/unique formations like chou ga ryuu's sifting sands, or the gyou'un armies tactics for dealing with pincers.

    if those men were foreign to them then they'd need more instruction to manage those tasks than simply "just do exactly as we've trained", or "assume the sifting sands formation". they also wouldn't be able to perform those formations so fluidly.




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    also doubt some random conscripted troops would just happen to have the strongest infantry the hsu has ever faced.

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  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg boy View Post
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    seemed obvious to me that those statements weren't meant to be considered seperately.

    but even disregarding that, just observing their armies interactions throughout the campaign makes it clear that it's their personal armies. otherwise they wouldn't just know how to assume intricate/unique formations like chou ga ryuu's sifting sands, or the gyou'un armies tactics for dealing with pincers.

    if those men were foreign to them then they'd need more instruction to manage those tasks than simply "just do exactly as we've trained", or "assume the sifting sands formation". they also wouldn't be able to perform those formations so fluidly.




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    also doubt some random conscripted troops would just happen to have the strongest infantry the hsu has ever faced.
    he clearly called a specific soldier of his army to perpetrate the killzone, it wasn't something only the troops themselves did.

    likewise, these aren't "conscripted" troops. when you say conscripted troops u think of villagers, en and bu clearly sent proper soldiers from their own garrisons.

  6. #26
    10k should be a standard number for a general's personal army and within that they may have their different elite units under the command of their vassals or officers. While in Qin 8k seems to be the standard number for generals around Heki's level, while great general class commanders have more than that due to the size of land they rule over. Just take a look at the rigan army's size for instance it has 30k troops who were considered well trained. It would be inconceivable for a General to have an army less than 10k at hand while 5k independent unit commanders have complete control over their 5k troops.

  7. #27
    Gyouun
    Rinko
    Kaishibou
    Chougaryuu
    Genbou
    Kyouen
    Bananji
    Rihaku
    Shoumou
    Mangoku

  8. #28
    Gyouun
    Rinko
    Kyouen
    Chougaryuu
    Bananji
    Kaishibou
    Genbou
    Shoumou
    Rihaku
    Mangoku

    Why you left SSJ and Kouson out? forgot?

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    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    As the linked first page of chapter 516 said, the 10k soldiers are from en and bun city
    It didnt said that, these cities troops are additional 10k men that are about to arrive, not the men the 2 brought with them.

  9. #29
    No, I do not care about SSJ or Kouson. Hence not interested. Apologies.

  10. #30
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan View Post
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    he clearly called a specific soldier of his army to perpetrate the killzone, it wasn't something only the troops themselves did.

    likewise, these aren't "conscripted" troops. when you say conscripted troops u think of villagers, en and bu clearly sent proper soldiers from their own garrisons.
    i didn't say they just did it themselves. i said how quickly/fluidly they did it without any detailed instruction implies that they were trained in that formation.

    semantics aside i'm sure you know what i meant. soldiers recruited randomly from some insignificant city wouldn't just happen to have the strongest infantry the hsu has ever fought after they've already dealt with some of the highest ranked armies in enemy states.

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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascot View Post
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    It didnt said that, these cities troops are additional 10k men that are about to arrive, not the men the 2 brought with them.
    that's what i've been saying?

    pretty sure bootleg boy is the one who bring that page to claim the number of their personal men are 10k

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenma View Post
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    Gyouun
    Rinko
    Kaishibou
    Chougaryuu
    Genbou
    Kyouen
    Bananji
    Rihaku
    Shoumou
    Mangoku
    More or less agree with this

  13. #33
    For me personally.

    Gyou'un
    Rinko
    Kyouen
    Kashibou
    Chougaryuu
    Bananji
    Genpou
    Rihaku
    Shoumou
    Mangoku

  14. #34
    King Juan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg boy View Post
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    i didn't say they just did it themselves. i said how quickly/fluidly they did it without any detailed instruction implies that they were trained in that formation.

    semantics aside i'm sure you know what i meant. soldiers recruited randomly from some insignificant city wouldn't just happen to have the strongest infantry the hsu has ever fought after they've already dealt with some of the highest ranked armies in enemy states.
    tokio, you did. you said they wouldn't know how to do any tactics we've been shown, the fluidity was an afterthought. never mind gyou'un called a specific commander to do the killzone, and that chougaryuu specifically sent the dojaku to form the sifting sands. cgr has even less grounds to stand on. he's had 14 days, that'd be more than enough to teach how to do a formation.

    where is this infantry comment from?

  15. #35
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan View Post
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    tokio, you did. you said they wouldn't know how to do any tactics we've been shown, the fluidity was an afterthought. never mind gyou'un called a specific commander to do the killzone, and that chougaryuu specifically sent the dojaku to form the sifting sands. cgr has even less grounds to stand on. he's had 14 days, that'd be more than enough to teach how to do a formation.

    where is this infantry comment from?
    it was apart of the same thought...

    this is what i said:

    if those men were foreign to them then they'd need more instruction to manage those tasks than simply "just do exactly as we've trained", or "assume the sifting sands formation".
    ou hon was already attacking them. the commander gyou'un sent off to perform the killzone was a cavalry unit. the infantry seperately maneuvered into their formations by the time ou hon had arrived, and the cavalry circled around to trap him. ou hon even said it wasn't simply a rushed formation in response to his sudden attack.



    they were clearly very familiar with this tactic. they wouldn't be able to perform such an intricate formation if they were unfamiliar with the tactic up until that moment. especially not so quickly, and efficiently.

    chou ga ryuu sent part of the dokaju to reinforce a certain layer of the sifting sands formation. not to form the entire thing themselves. also we even see someone shout "it's the dojaku! let them through!", so we can plainly see beyond a shadow of a doubt that the dojaku weren't the ones organizing the formation.

    and come on jj, really? you obviously can't train troops on the use of formations in the middle of a battle like this, and they clearly said that chou ga ryuu hadn't used that formation in ages.

    the infantry comment was from this page:



    turnip made a mistake when they first released the chapter, but they mentioned what the blank bubble said on their site.

    https://turnipfarmers.wordpress.com/2018/01/
    The missing bubble should read something like “This is the first time we’ve encountered enemy foot soldiers this strong…“

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  16. #36
    Kyouen
    Kaishibou,Gyou'un,rinko
    Genbou
    chougaryu
    bananji
    shoumou
    rihaku
    mangoku

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Akroor View Post
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    Kyouen
    Kaishibou,Gyou'un,rinko
    Genbou
    chougaryu
    bananji
    shoumou
    rihaku
    mangoku
    How would Kyouen with 10k defeat Gyou'un with 10k? Really interested.

  18. #38
    This is a hard list to rank.

    Though aside from vassals of 3GH the rest are trash.


    1. Gyou'un.
    2. Rinko
    3. KyouEn + KaShibou
    4. CGR + Banaji
    5. Genpo

  19. #39
    in my opinion kyouen is better than gyouun.
    renpa said that every general(he knew gyouun) will be caught off guard by kyouen's aggression.ousen army also started retreating against his 40k army(we dont know if gyouun can command more than 10k).and gyouun is not alone he needs chougaryu advice,which he follows. kyouen fought against ouki,oukotsu,kyou 6ggs,renpa(whose offences are greater than gyouun) and hakuki,ousen who are better tactician than gyouun by himself.

    gyouun is here fighting with only his personal army(he had 12 years of practice) ,not commanding any new/unfamiliar units and still getting stalemated by hsu(8k troops).so this is his best performance we are seeing.
    and unlike gyouun having none capability beside being ordinary general, kyouen is 10 bow of china who can snipe gyouun or his advisor from a far.
    gyouun gets used later after rsj has trapped his enemy general,like ousen used mouryu and shin, ouki used shin,reiou uses ranbihaku,riboku uses houken. even rinko is better than him cause he can hold his own against mougu army vanguard(against shin,kyoukai,mouten ouhon,eibi,domon) with wei troops and can also become an arrow to raid headquarters and wound ouki level martial generals without using something like raigoku.

    gyouun can't face kyouen alone.
    his only advantage is his martial ability and raigoku.
    Last edited by Akroor; 03-17-2019 at 07:45 AM.

  20. #40
    With 10k gyouun will win against kyouen due to his martial ability being such a difference maker. With greater troops kyouen might have a chance since we havent seen gyouun command a huge army and his martial ability is less of a factor in a huge scale battle.

    Kyouen is an offensive master who even burned renpa before.

    No chance kyouen can snipe gyouun he is too strong but his 10 smug spears are fair game

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