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  1. #1

    Rank these Zhao generals.

    In order from 'best to worst' in your opinion. A little explanation will be appreciated, as always.


    The Zhao generals, in no personal order
    Shoumou
    Mangoku
    Rinko
    Kashibou
    Kyouen
    Genpou
    Chougaryuu
    Gyou'un
    Rihaku
    Bananji

    Wondering this for a while in the fandom.

  2. #2
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    gyou'un
    chou ga ryuu
    rin ko (?)
    ba nan ji ≥ kai shi bou
    kyou en
    gen pou
    ri haku
    shou mou
    man goku

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  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg boy View Post
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    gyou'un
    chou ga ryuu
    rin ko (?)
    ba nan ji ≥ kai shi bou
    kyou en
    gen pou
    ri haku
    shou mou
    man goku
    CGR that high because? I agree he is underestimated but second place?

  4. #4
    1. Gyou'un
    Beastly strength combined with good tactics and good instincts. There's still time for him to go up or down in my tiers though.

    2. Rinko/Kaishibou/Genbou/Kyouen/Chougaryu
    Honestly I've not seen anything from any of these that make me think either is above or below the other. They all have their pros and cons. I can't even guess it really, because when I do, I end up looking back at it and seeing room for disagreement.

    3. Bananji.
    Very good martially, decent understanding of warfare seemingly has good offensive might too. He has room to join the group above once we see his demon mode but until we've seen it, I can't. It's probably worth pointing out that as Riboku's deputy, he is basically an equivalent to the others. I'd put Shunsuiju here too for the record.

    4. Rihaku
    Sucks for him that he went up against the worst type of enemy for him but his defense is very good. We're talking a level below the above though.

    5. Shoumou
    Not far off Rihaku in that his destructive ability is obviously brilliant. Probably isn't too dissimilar to Bananji in that area, though he isn't that bright and is exceedingly arrogant.

    6. Mangoku
    Weakest really. He never showed anything to put himself at the level of the above and bare in mind we see the best of him because he's against Qin. That being said, all the Bayou Generals are likely at the same level.

  5. #5
    Appreciated the explanation, Kanki. A nice read.

  6. #6
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
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    CGR that high because? I agree he is underestimated but second place?
    the only person i put below cgr that i believe can get past his defensive formations is rin ko, and even when he does i doubt he'll be able to claim cgr's head because of his tactical disadvantage. cgr will probably outsmart and outmaneuver him somehow at his hq.

    ba nan ji and kai shi bou might have the necessary arm strength to get past his defenses, but i highly doubt they're able to inspire the same amount of morale in their men as shin does. which judging from the last chapter was probably the main factor that allowed shin to break through cgr's formations the way he did.

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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg boy View Post
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    the only person i put below cgr that i believe can get past his defensive formations is rin ko, and even when he does i doubt he'll be able to claim cgr's head because of his tactical disadvantage. cgr will probably outsmart and outmaneuver him somehow at his hq.

    ba nan ji and kai shi bou might have the necessary arm strength to get past his defenses, but i highly doubt they're able to inspire the same amount of morale in their men as shin does. which judging from the last chapter was probably the main factor that allowed shin to break through cgr's formations the way he did.
    1. Rinko was able to break through the Iron Defence line that Ouki himself created. So there is no doubt here that he would also be able to break through CGR his defenses.

    And saying that CGR is 'better' than Rinko because he most probably will escape to live on means nothing really since it will be Rinko that wins than and decimates his army. So in all honesty mate, you confuse me here.

    2. I can agree with this mostly.

  8. #8
    Rinko absolutely cuts through Chougaryu's defense. The question becomes what happens when Chougaryu changes his flow? Can Rinko handle the attack from the side? Does he chase Chougaryu or just clear out his men? (I think the former). Does CGY even have room to run? What happens when CGY sends a unit to hit the HQ? Would Rinko even feel that considering he seemingly doesn't rely on a strategist like Ten? etc etc

    It's interesting tbh. We shouldn't forget Rinko's ability to assassinate in larger battles as well. That's why it does sort of bug me that we have G + C leading 10k each when the likes of Rinko were leading 40k. The fact that RSJ had ten Generals below him makes me think this tended to be the norm as well. I'd rather see the RSJ duo try and work with much larger armies.

  9. #9
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
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    1. Rinko was able to break through the Iron Defence line that Ouki himself created. So there is no doubt here that he would also be able to break through CGR his defenses.

    And saying that CGR is 'better' than Rinko because he most probably will escape to live on means nothing really since it will be Rinko that wins than and decimates his army. So in all honesty mate, you confuse me here.

    2. I can agree with this mostly.
    i just said i believed rin ko could break through the formation, so i don’t know why you’re arguing that point. we don’t disagree there.

    but like kan ki said, cgr won’t just retreat; he’ll counterattack somehow. rin ko hasn’t demonstrated the tactical ability that’ll allow him to adapt well in that situation, and his stats don’t reflect that well on him in the tactical area either.

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  10. #10
    Gyou'un
    Kyouen
    Genbou
    Rinko
    Chougaryu
    Kaishibou
    Bananji
    ---
    Shoumou
    Rihaku
    Mangoku

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    That's why it does sort of bug me that we have G + C leading 10k each when the likes of Rinko were leading 40k.
    HK's were leading 40k of Wei soldiers. We don't know how big were their personal armies, because they were left in Zhao (except for some small elite units).

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Cichy View Post
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    HK's were leading 40k of Wei soldiers. We don't know how big were their personal armies, because they were left in Zhao (except for some small elite units).
    Rinko had 700 elites but led 40k soldiers overall.
    Gyou'un had 2k elites but led 10k overall.

    iirc.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Rinko had 700 elites but led 40k soldiers overall.
    Gyou'un had 2k elites but led 10k overall.

    iirc.
    Gyou'un and CGR are leading 10k, because thats the size of their personal army. We don't know what's the size of Rinko's personal army, because we've never actually seen it. It could be 10k as well.

  14. #14
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    The fact that RSJ had ten Generals below him makes me think this tended to be the norm as well.
    why would soldiers need to be distributed evenly between rsj's generals? ou sen similarly has several generals in his retinue, but he gave only his left and right hand generals complete control over his wings.

    same thing with ou ki. he had several army commanders, but that doesn't mean tou had less opportunity to lead tens of thousands.

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    also what cichy said

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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Cichy View Post
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    Gyou'un and CGR are leading 10k, because thats the size of their personal army. We don't know what's the size of Rinko's personal army, because we've never actually seen it. It could be 10k as well.
    Are you sure on this? I thought it was 10k soldiers each with their personal units included within that 10k. For a commander to have a 10k personal army sounds very large. Would that also mean Bananji and Gakuei had 10k personal armies? I don't see it.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Are you sure on this? I thought it was 10k soldiers each with their personal units included within that 10k. For a commander to have a 10k personal army sounds very large. Would that also mean Bananji and Gakuei had 10k personal armies? I don't see it.
    Bananji and Gakuei had also 10k, yes. Personal.

  17. #17
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Are you sure on this? I thought it was 10k soldiers each with their personal units included within that 10k. For a commander to have a 10k personal army sounds very large. Would that also mean Bananji and Gakuei had 10k personal armies? I don't see it.


    as for gaku'ei it seems like he inherited kei sha's army after he passed. which would explain why he'd have a 10k large personal army.

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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg boy View Post
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    why would soldiers need to be distributed evenly between rsj's generals? ou sen similarly has several generals in his retinue, but he gave only his left and right hand generals complete control over his wings.

    same thing with ou ki. he had several army commanders, but that doesn't mean tou had less opportunity to lead tens of thousands.

    - - - Updated - - -

    also what cichy said
    Not evenly, but if you're in charge of 100k, how does he distribute that among ten generals? Ouki split his into 20ks + 10ks iirc and I don't believe Rokuomi (his 1st commander) has ever led an army of 40k. That would be the parallel for Gyou'un, rather than Tou who was a lieutenant and 'hidden'.

    I'm curious and would like to find out how it was done.

  19. #19
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    i don't think gyou'un and cgr have 10k each. we only know that they mobilized their personal forces, that doesn't mean 10k. riboku pulled soldiers from everywhere near kantan, he could easily give each 8k.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Juan View Post
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    i don't think gyou'un and cgr have 10k each. we only know that they mobilized their personal forces, that doesn't mean 10k. riboku pulled soldiers from everywhere near kantan, he could easily give each 8k.
    If those cocky bastards from the passed Ai state had 30k of men (just a town) ... It is really not hard fedged that these vassals have 10k each.

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