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  1. #41
    I have a hard time saying Riboku has dominated Ousen. It's a lot more like Riboku put a plan together that literally is for this situation to a T while Ousen is making plan based on the situation he is in and inferior resources at his disposal. Basically, his real goal was to hold out till Gyou was in trouble and here he is. Riboku made some clutch moves but Ousen troop arrangement has been working.

  2. #42
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    3 of ou sen's commanders were taken down because of ri boku's tactics, and his army has practically been teetering on the brink of destruction since day one. even if ou sen somehow anticipated the new gen's various miraculous feats you can't really say it was due to his "troop arrangement" that his army has been holding on.

    like cichy said, crediting ou sen for these achievements on the shukai plains would be like attributing ren pa's loss in sanyou to mou gou.
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  3. #43
    tbh if Zhao lose one or more commanders on this wing I will be disappointed if Riboku doesn't send in Futei. He's meant to be a Shin parallel so should be trusted as much.

  4. #44
    선생님 Zentos's Avatar
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    What matters is the end game, and that is that Ousen will be winning, despite all the advantages Zhao had. As if that weren't enough, literal armies dropped out of the sky for them, armies that would gobble up any of the armies Zhao had except for the one Riboku led. If that's not convenient, I don't know what is.

    Ousen couldn't, just like anyone bar Hara, predict Riboku's teleportation no-jutsu, but it is what allowed him to see that Mouten, and by extension the rest of the new gen, had it in them to take the next step. That was the conclusion he came to, and the reason the right wing was devoid of any orders from Ousen's HQ. Everything else is Ousen's merit, as he was the one who orchestrated everything along with Gyou's fall.

    He may have even had more offensive moves in store, but didn't want to risk being caught up in too much of a bloodshed, as that would compromise their task of holding out until Gyou falls. The moves that Riboku pulled on the Shukai plains were certainly more flashy, but Ousen has delivered elsewhere and will, in the end, prevail due to the scheme he set up on the spot, in the middle of an area crawling with soldiers that outnumber them.

    The same can be said for Riboku, perhaps he had a means to end it sooner by being more offensive, but decided to starve them out. That too is his blunder, as assuming that Gyou isn't crawling with spies is just a very bad assumption that most people would assume otherwise, simply out of fear or paranoia. He didn't have to go that far, nor would he, but completely ignoring that possibility has well and truly cost him the battle. They played their hands the way they did, and one will emerge victorious, while the other won't. Could-or-should have done will be bygones by then, and something no one cares about.

  5. #45
    The main failure in Riboku's strategy for me is the fact that he didn´t expect infiltrators among the refugees, which was a very obvious move that many here anticipated, myself included


    Taking that into regard, Riboku should have pressed his advantage in the center field, he had many more troops than OuSen instead of playing defensively

  6. #46
    I wouldn't say anyone's won yet. There's still hands to be dealt.

  7. #47
    VICE's Avatar
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    See how Ten is not sweating under the pressure?




  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Stark777 View Post
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    The main failure in Riboku's strategy for me is the fact that he didn´t expect infiltrators among the refugees, which was a very obvious move that many here anticipated, myself included


    Taking that into regard, Riboku should have pressed his advantage in the center field, he had many more troops than OuSen instead of playing defensively
    Its not up to him tbh. Whoever is in charge for gyous security is responsible.

    Besides the Qin were desguised among the wounded and the refugee entrance was a emergency proceding. Ousen anticipated all that.

    The truth is that Zhao King was right, gyous lord should not have accepted anyone.

  9. #49
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stark777 View Post
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    The main failure in Riboku's strategy for me is the fact that he didn´t expect infiltrators among the refugees, which was a very obvious move that many here anticipated, myself included


    Taking that into regard, Riboku should have pressed his advantage in the center field, he had many more troops than OuSen instead of playing defensively
    the spoilers show they weren't just letting anybody in, so it's not as if spies weren't considered as a possibility. he just didn't think it was possible for ou sen to slip spies past gyou's security.
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  10. #50
    Despite what most people seen to think on this forum, the CiC of any war cant control every single minor step of the battle.

  11. #51
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascot View Post
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    Despite what most people seen to think on this forum, the CiC of any war cant control every single minor step of the battle.
    true, though the spoilers do show that gyou's lord has been deferring to ri boku in his decision making. so that they were caught so off guard by this tells us that ri boku didn't consider it.
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  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg boy View Post
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    the spoilers show they weren't just letting anybody in, so it's not as if spies weren't considered as a possibility. he just didn't think it was possible for ou sen to slip spies past gyou's security.
    He should have, as many people here did

    Riboku has shown to be capable of foresee far more unexpected things and plan accordingly down to the tiniest detail. Not to consider that as possibility is his biggest blunder in this war and so if Zhao loses is on him IMO

  13. #53
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stark777 View Post
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    He should have, as many people here did

    Riboku has shown to be capable of foresee far more unexpected things and plan accordingly down to the tiniest detail. Not to consider that as possibility is his biggest blunder in this war and so if Zhao loses is on him IMO
    nobody really thought that he'd disguise soldiers as the wounded. i mean, i've never seen that theory at least.
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  14. #54
    Nobody didnt even think that he would use the refugees this way to begin with.

    It was regarded inverse as an inovative tatic If Im not mistaken

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg boy View Post
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    true, though the spoilers do show that gyou's lord has been deferring to ri boku in his decision making. so that they were caught so off guard by this tells us that ri boku didn't consider it.
    Yeah but by then they were already inside

  15. #55
    Since the very first battle Riboku has shown he prefered winning with the least amount of death possible

    - He didn't chase after Ouki
    - He attacked Sai with only half his army every time
    - He tricked Gekishin to end the battle quickly

    And in the case of this war it was a blunder that Ousen anticipated well because he has shown he was excellent at psychologicaly manipulating his opponents.

    Ousen is probably not as good as Riboku at tactics, but he proved once again he is better at scheming.

    Another problem Riboku has is he cannot be everywhere and think for everyone. If he were Gyou's gouvernor there is no way he wouldn't have tripled check who went in and also he would probably have spread the foodstores even more to make them far more difficult to target.
    Last edited by Whysoserious; 02-14-2019 at 12:21 AM.

  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascot View Post
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    Nobody didnt even think that he would use the refugees this way to begin with.

    It was regarded inverse as an inovative tatic If Im not mistaken

    - - - Updated - - -



    Yeah but by then they were already inside
    I did, though

  17. #57
    No Dignity no name's Avatar
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    Narrator: Gyou - 14 days ago
    have the chief hand over the registry.
    those not in the registry won't be allowed in.
    deal with it outside.
    soldier: those not in the registry, step out of the line.
    we'll verify your identity later.
    ... ok, enter.
    random: Way to hang in there, Takuta. We're at Gyou.
    ....
    We're here, Katou.
    ....
    Someone, get water.
    It's Gyou.
    ....
    Gyou, we made it ...
    'smile'
    hand over the registry.
    hurry...water...
    So this is Gyou
    ... water...
    Chapter title: 589 Happenings at Night
    narrator: The Present
    random: Hurry up, Takuta.
    'Takuta': Who are you calling Takuta, fool.
    random: Good job finding this route.
    Yeah, but it took so many days.
    Couldn't be helped.
    Finding the storehouses was enough of a problem.
    It'll be meaningless unless he do EVERY storehouse simultaneously.
    Yeah, and gathering the armored disguises was a problem, too.
    ...
    Is that it? Yeah.
    Inside there.
    The others should have gathered already.
    There are many troops inside.
    We won't get out alive.
    Who cares about that.
    We can't fail.
    Yeah.
    Okay, carry out the plan!
    Wish you all luck.
    Victory for Ousen-sama
    Yeah
    Victory for Ousen-sama!
    'salute'
    random: Lord! Lord! Please awaken!
    ? Lord: What's wrong?
    random: I-it's horrible. Please hurry and come.
    Lord: So what's wrong? Did Kanki's army start attacking?
    N-no, not that.
    random: There's a fire within the keep.
    Lord: What!?
    random: It's a fire.
    Over towards the center.
    Burning pretty good.
    'cries of babies'
    'crowd noise'
    random: A-and from the reports just now...
    The buildings on fire...
    lord: The eastern food stores!?
    random: The insurgentwere all killed, but the warehouses fires can't be put out.
    lord: W-what!? H...how...how could this be...?
    Insurgents!?
    narrator:
    Outside the Keep - Kanki army
    randoms: Look, smoke. A fire inside?
    Something smell good?
    You're right.
    ? ? ? 'panting' ogiko: Fire, a fire, probably. Must tell the chief in a hurry. ?oh?
    The chief's awake.
    Kanki: Tch... Took long enough, slowpokes...
    narrator: News of the happenings at night would get THERE in a day...



    narrator:
    Shukai plains.
    Early morning
    14th day
    This day will have the fiercest battle of the Qin right wing.
    And before the battle started.
    shosa: Hey.
    random: Oh, Shosa-san, mornin'.You're heavy.
    narrator: The one who knew that better than anyone...
    Denyuu: Oh, Usai You've recovered already?
    Usai: Yes, the left hand can't move, but my right did, so.
    Hairou: 'laugh' That's what the Hishin Unit's about. 'chuckle
    narrator: was the strategist,
    Karyouten. Ten: .... Today, a lot of people will die I'm going to get them killed...!! But... even so...
    Shin: quit trembling like a foal, fool.
    'grasp' ten:
    !Shin... Shin: mornin' Ten: mo-morning.
    Shin: You're too tightly wound before we even start.
    Ten: But...
    Kyoukai: Karyouten 'grope' 'scream'
    Ten: wh...what are you doing, Kyoukai!?
    Kyoukai: Huh? I thought you'd enjoy it. Shou-nee used to...
    Ten: I wouldn't enjoy that!
    Shin: Huh? You'd enjoy... 'grope 'smack
    Ten: Oh, what is this!? Be serious, you two.
    Shin: No, I'm not messing around. but Kyoukai...
    Kyoukai: I'm not messing around either.
    Ten: 'grunt
    Shin: ...heh go with that, ten. Just be your usual self. If you think too much... you'll hesitate and make a mistake
    Ten: !
    Shin: You probably know, but you don't need to hold back at all. We are all Hishin Unit who risk our lives to grab ahold of victory
    Ten: ....
    Shin: So...
    Ten: I know.
    Shin: !



    Ten: Thank you, shin.
    I also needed courage the most today.
    I got it.
    Shin: ... ok Ten: Let's win,Shin.
    Shin: Yeah, we're definitely gonna win!!
    Random: Chougaryuu-sama, the enemy deployment...
    Hishin unit is front and center...
    Akou army and gyokuhou are on either wing behind?
    Chougaryuu: Yes, I see. Hishin unit is the center of the Qin right wing. Very likely, Shin of the Hishin unit became the commander of the right wing.
    random: huh?
    Chougaryuu: There out of options, and this is their last move. But we'll finish you in half a day, Hishin unit. And that'll be the end of this battle.
    Next Issue: the 14th day of destiny
    Last edited by no name; 02-14-2019 at 12:42 PM.

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