Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 21 to 40 of 47
  1. #21
    선생님 Zentos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    11,613
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    pull a Zentos and have everyone lead their respective armies to the best of their abilities
    I could literally do away with most clauses because my maps and general strategy do their jobs well enough. The only exceptions are cases like Rinko where specific outcomes are expected and need further elaborations. The rest are just there so no one goes "much suicide".

    I mean, I could easily put the general strat in the clauses and have them be specific like you prefer, but that just makes it a pain to read. Don't see who at all benefits from such an approach.

  2. #22
    Marshmellow Justice Void's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    56,990
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I could literally do away with most clauses because my maps and general strategy do their jobs well enough. The only exceptions are cases like Rinko where specific outcomes are expected and need further elaborations. The rest are just there so no one goes "much suicide".

    I mean, I could easily put the general strat in the clauses and have them be specific like you prefer, but that just makes it a pain to read. Don't see who at all benefits from such an approach.
    lol no

    I really hate how you do your maps, it makes reading the whole thing such a pain and remember, clauses > maps and general strat. it's so annoying to interpret what your army will do because it's basically you saying "yeah, they'll just act in character but with added caution". don't whine when you decide to argue to your convenience at what your army will do but the voters interpret it differently because you gave them way too much leeway to do so.

    I'd say clause one should be the specific action that will give us a concrete idea of what you want your unit to do to complete your master plan and clause two will be the "added caution" one to cover their ass and/or be the thing to do if clause one fails or isn't feasible.

    The Glorious Fellowship of the Round Jacuzzi:
    https://i.imgur.com/tDbgtsy.jpg

  3. #23
    선생님 Zentos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    11,613
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    lol no

    I really hate how you do your maps, it makes reading the whole thing such a pain and remember, clauses > maps and general strat. it's so annoying to interpret what your army will do because it's basically you saying "yeah, they'll just act in character but with added caution". don't whine when you decide to argue to your convenience at what your army will do but the voters interpret it differently because you gave them way too much leeway to do so.

    I'd say clause one should be the specific action that will give us a concrete idea of what you want your unit to do to complete your master plan and clause two will be the "added caution" one to cover their ass and/or be the thing to do if clause one fails or isn't feasible.
    There's no way on heaven or earth where reading clauses through 8 different generals to get an idea what's happening is easier than reading 3 sentences of the general strat and maps that show you step-by-step how the armies move.

    There's a difference between thinking X can do this or that, or X will suicide despite being told not to do that. That's not up to anyone to interpret, if you're told to move out of a place if there's a massive army coming, you're moving out. People giving themselves freedom where it does not exist is their issue and an attack on the game rules, not my problem.

  4. #24
    Marshmellow Justice Void's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    56,990
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    There's no way on heaven or earth where reading clauses through 8 different generals to get an idea what's happening is easier than reading 3 sentences of the general strat and maps that show you step-by-step how the armies move.

    There's a difference between thinking X can do this or that, or X will suicide despite being told not to do that. That's not up to anyone to interpret, if you're told to move out of a place if there's a massive army coming, you're moving out. People giving themselves freedom where it does not exist is their issue and an attack on the game rules, not my problem.
    it's way easier to read that and accurately interpret what is it you want to do. all your doing right now is showing us where you want your army to go and then have them lead their to the best of their ability. like, how am I supposed to know what they're gonna do there to actually win their respective fronts other than in character actions which is hugely left up to the voter to interpret for every single character? it's way too general and vague.

    at least you have clauses to fall on to point that out.

    I'm not talking about moving to a certain place, I'm talking about how they're gonna win the battle through actions once they get there. and it is YOUR ISSUE. if GP is setting up a tricky defense and your characters are told to be in character, then barring hot heads, it is up to voters to interpret how the characters will act. will they spot it and wait for reinforcements? will they engage to discern reactions? will they bust through on an offense since they're stronger martially and are tactically sound to cover up a potential mistake? or will they do something else? people will interpret in different ways, but it is YOUR ISSUE since a good amount of the time, it won't line up to how you envision they'll act. but here, you won't have clauses to fall upon to point out why they're wrong, cuz you've left it up to vague and general ideas. you know KP is full of people whose opinions on how they value a character can differ on a range from me to Teo, and how they'll think what a character can or can't do and how they'll act in situations. if this costs you a match, you only have yourself to blame.

    The Glorious Fellowship of the Round Jacuzzi:
    https://i.imgur.com/tDbgtsy.jpg

  5. #25
    선생님 Zentos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    11,613
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    ppinions on how they value a character can differ on a range from me to Teo
    Best scale.

    There really aren't many, if any characters that have acted completely out of character from one battle to another, which is why there's really not that much room for interpretation. Would saying in a clause "Akou will use his charge to bust through the enemy or defensive formation in case of a flank attack" make a difference to "Akou will lead the army to the designated spot to the best of his ability and be wary of flanks" make a difference? Absolutely not, as those are the 2 prominent things about him that he has shown and his go-to as far as we are aware.

    But, apparently, acting like there's a thousand different faces to Akou, or someone else, is fine and in line with the series. These complaints aren't directed at you, although I still fail to see how needless wordiness about things that don't really have alternatives are a positive thing, but if that's how everyone wants it to be, then I'll be changing to that as well. Might as well degrade to Nord's maps where he draws 2 arrows in the same color and calls it a day.

  6. #26
    Juan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    9,708
    i'm writing, don't despair.

  7. #27
    Juan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    9,708
    sent, btw.

  8. #28
    Zentos' Italian Cuisine

    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Deployment:

    Red army (30k) - Kanki (CiC):
    10k Kanki army, 19k soldiers, 1k scouts

    Green army (30k) - Rinbukun, Hakurei:
    10k Rinbukun army, 5k Hakurei unit, 15k soldiers

    Yellow army (40k) - Gaimou, Junsou:
    10k Gaimou army, 10k Junsou army, 20k soldiers

    Blue army (50k) - Gyou'un, Kanou, Rinbou:
    10k Gyou'un army, 10k Kanou army, 10k Rinbou army, 20k soldiers




    General strategy:

    Stage 1 - https://i.imgur.com/SQOnudT.jpg:

    Stage 2 - https://i.imgur.com/Nbj1WGl.jpg:

    Stage 3 - https://i.imgur.com/mTToKuw.jpg:

    The main idea is to have the 4 large armies march for the middle with Kanki overlooking the battle as a whole to direct the armies and crush the enemy.
    The red and green armies will be placed in the middle and the yellow and blue armies will travel at the flanks, while 2 groups of 500 scouts will go ahead to check for enemy movements.




    Instructions:

    Red army (30k):
    Kanki (CiC):
    - Lead the armies to the best of your ability, but be flexible with the destination and objective of all armies depending on the general flow of the battle and the incoming enemy armies.
    - Be wary of traps/ambushes and ensure a means of communication between all armies.
    - Send 2 groups of scouts ahead to look for enemies, and work with the information or lack thereof that you receive from them.

    Green army (30k):
    Rinbukun:
    - Lead the green army according to Kanki's plan to crush the enemy and communicate with him to keep up with his strategy at all times.
    - You can fight enemies, but be wary of tag-teams and traps meant to lure you in.

    Hakurei:
    - Act as an independent unit under Rinbukun's command, assist him in duels and get him out of trouble if he gets caught.

    Blue army (50k):
    Gyou'un:
    - Lead the blue army and to the best of your ability, using your instinct to keep up with the flow of the battle and Kanki's strategy.
    - Your main goal is to crush the opponent, but also to make sure that no armies can flank or circle around to hit the main army in the back.

    Kanou and Rinbou:
    - Assist Gyou'un to the best of your ability and listen to his orders at all times.
    - Avoid duels against stronger opponents and tag-teams unless you've got someone from your side helping you, and be especially wary of strong opponents.

    Yellow army (40k):
    Junsou:
    - Lead the yellow army and to the best of your ability, listen to Kanki's strategy and direct Gaimou's might.
    -Your main goal is to crush the opponent, but also to make sure that no armies can flank or circle around to hit the main army in the back.

    Gaimou:
    - Assist Junsou to the best of your ability and listen to his orders at all times.
    - You can fight enemies, but be wary of tag-teams and traps meant to lure you in.



    Juan's Mongolian BBQ

    Quote Originally Posted by Juan
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    deployment:


    4 armies.

    blue army is riboku's with kaishibou and goba. 50k men.

    red army is kyou en's with kouyoku as sword. 40k, with a 500 unit as scout.

    white army is gen bou's. 40k with, again, 500 as scouts.

    the greenish one at the front is led by ryuutou accompanied by kanjou. they have the remaining 20k soldiers.


    general strategy:

    ryuutou is a feint. we use our shaky front to bait zentos into an attack, as his army holds the bigger martial. once he digs in, ryuutou starts giving ground to box them in between our wings so the riboku army behind them can support ryuutou with 20k. where are the other 30k, you ask?

    riboku sent his two trusted deputies, kaishibou and goba, from behind to go around the wings and attack from behind. this is a twofold manouver, of course. in the case both wings are attacked from the sides, the cavalry charges of 15k for both sides are meant to drill through them and offer relief, and their original intent of attacking the front.


    clauses:

    riboku (cic):

    - will only order the charges after the enemy has begun their attack on earnest, as to avoid only hitting a small portion of the enemy.
    - retains the ability to reorder the number of soldiers dedicated to each task, who shall perform the tasks, and order reinforcements to whoever needs them.
    - use all available tactics, should opportunities appear. ryuudou, or even secret assasinations against the martially weak opponents.

    kaishibou:

    - use your renpa level arm strength to cause havoc with your charge.
    - avoid duels in general, and keep in mind that the enemy has a tenbow archer.

    kyouen:

    - use your arrows to help coordinate your army, including kouyoku, using your scouts' reports. once the charge begins, try and coordinate with kaishibou, as he's charging from your side.
    - if possible, try to snipe enemy commanders.

    genbou:

    - use your anti-cavalry (there's a small forest under you, in case you need wood), anti offense oriented tactics, in the case of an attack against you. try and use them to help goba's charge easier.
    - personallu stay back, as far away from danger as tactically possible.

    goba:

    - avoid duels, and use the natural strength of your mountain warriors to cause maximum damage.
    - remember the existence of a talented archer in the enemy ranks.

    kouyoku:

    - avoid duels, unless against rinbukun. always use your bakuya sword.
    - remember hakurei, and follow kyouen's instructions.

    ryuutou:

    - while waiting for the enemy army to approach, prepare as many traps as possible to bog them down and thin manpower.
    - use kanjou as a sortier, send him to the places you think he could best help.

    kanjou:

    - follow ryuutou's orders, but remember not to overextend yourself.
    @Great Potato @DoflaMihawk @Crispickle @Juan @gn_x00 @Zentos @Aether;

  9. #29
    Juan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    9,708

  10. #30
    Marshmellow Justice Void's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    56,990
    Juan has a great plan, but Zentos thwarts it by not splitting up his army so the numbers and his brutes can break out. will drop a vote later when I reread

    The Glorious Fellowship of the Round Jacuzzi:
    https://i.imgur.com/tDbgtsy.jpg

  11. #31
    Juan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    9,708
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Juan has a great plan, but Zentos thwarts it by not splitting up his army so the numbers and his brutes can break out. will drop a vote later when I reread
    sure, but kanki's clauses implies that at some point he will order his armies to attack, so i will eventually get my charge off. none of my wings got a level/number of enemies so big that they can't hold them for a while.

    once kanki orders the all out attack, i'm game. riboku has explicit orders to only order ksb and goba to separate and charge after the attack begins in earnest.

    furthermore, the hardest hit sides (genbou and ryuutou) benefit from zentos taking his time, as they can prepare more and more for the incoming attacks.

  12. #32
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    12,259
    can't tell if juandissimo's wings are meant to move out and engage zentos' wings, or stay where they're positioned
    トキオ Love.$ex.Dreams
    (≧◡≦) ♡ l Feels Like Summer l

  13. #33
    Juan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    9,708
    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg boy View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    can't tell if juandissimo's wings are meant to move out and engage zentos' wings, or stay where they're positioned
    the original strat is to have them stay there to box in whoever attacks ryuutou

  14. #34
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2015
    Posts
    12,259
    leaning towards zentos right now in that case

    jj had a great strat, but feel he loses out because his characters lack the ability to pull it off under these circumstances.

    his white army in particular is inequipped to deal with zentos' blue army. considering gen pou's disposition he really isn't one to be trusted with the security of a wing. if someone closes in on him he won't buckle down and try to ward off his enemy in some act of valor; he'll retreat, and a lot quicker than most other generals would believe necessary. which is probably why ksb is the leader of the 4hk, and rin ko is generally considered the most dangerous over gen pou depite his intellect, but i digress. gen pou is out of his element here, and zentos' blue army led by gyou'un is more than enough to send gen pou for the hills; which would ultimately compromise his strategy of boxing in zentos' center.
    トキオ Love.$ex.Dreams
    (≧◡≦) ♡ l Feels Like Summer l

  15. #35
    Marshmellow Justice Void's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    56,990
    Quote Originally Posted by Juan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    sure, but kanki's clauses implies that at some point he will order his armies to attack, so i will eventually get my charge off. none of my wings got a level/number of enemies so big that they can't hold them for a while.

    once kanki orders the all out attack, i'm game. riboku has explicit orders to only order ksb and goba to separate and charge after the attack begins in earnest.

    furthermore, the hardest hit sides (genbou and ryuutou) benefit from zentos taking his time, as they can prepare more and more for the incoming attacks.
    yes

    I doubt it, Kanki's no Reebok or Gekishin, but I don't think he'd commit that much when he's supposed to play it rather safe from his clauses and he's gotta think something's up with your formation and how fast Ryuutou's line falls.

    The Glorious Fellowship of the Round Jacuzzi:
    https://i.imgur.com/tDbgtsy.jpg

  16. #36
    Juan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    9,708
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    yes

    I doubt it, Kanki's no Reebok or Gekishin, but I don't think he'd commit that much when he's supposed to play it rather safe from his clauses and he's gotta think something's up with your formation and how fast Ryuutou's line falls.
    eh. i'm not in any rush, again. i'm perfectly willing to wait until kanki decides to attack.

    ryuutou is alone with a 1k commander, not to mention his amount of soldiers is pretty low. it makes sense he folds soon, plus he's meant to make advance hard for the enemy army, so kanki shouldn't think it abnormal.

    my formation isn't that weird, it's a three way defense with riboku behind to serve as reserves for them.

    i don't see how my plan fails in the first place, rinbukun and gyouun hace explicit clauses to seek a confrontation with my forces. even if the wings are the only commited to an attack, my charge can hurt them/break them and go attack kanki even if he stays back due to caution.

    even so, kanki is forced to seek a confrontation himself. the more he takes to face me, the more my armies can prepare and make it harder for me to fall. you of all people have said how giving riboku time is the most dumb course of action

    - - - Updated - - -

    furthermore, the riboku army is very removed from the kanki armies.

    in this very arc, we've seen how the hsu has moved from battlefield to battlefield without being detected until they start attacking.

    hell, the makou army did the same.

  17. #37
    Marshmellow Justice Void's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    56,990
    Quote Originally Posted by Juan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    eh. i'm not in any rush, again. i'm perfectly willing to wait until kanki decides to attack.

    ryuutou is alone with a 1k commander, not to mention his amount of soldiers is pretty low. it makes sense he folds soon, plus he's meant to make advance hard for the enemy army, so kanki shouldn't think it abnormal.

    my formation isn't that weird, it's a three way defense with riboku behind to serve as reserves for them.

    i don't see how my plan fails in the first place, rinbukun and gyouun hace explicit clauses to seek a confrontation with my forces. even if the wings are the only commited to an attack, my charge can hurt them/break them and go attack kanki even if he stays back due to caution.

    even so, kanki is forced to seek a confrontation himself. the more he takes to face me, the more my armies can prepare and make it harder for me to fall. you of all people have said how giving riboku time is the most dumb course of action
    Kanki should definitely think it abnormal that you're sending too few to guard against a center attack yet have bulky wings

    the thing about your plan is, you rely too much on Zentos rushing in the center so you can flank him. his army is a big block and his own wings are fully prepped to combat a flank attacks on their respective sides. Gyouun will give Genbou fits and while I rate Kyouen > Junsou, the former doesn't have the power to overcome Gaimou with Kouyoku. Reebok can send out Kaishibou and Goba to equalize the wings and press Zentos, but that just works against you since Reebok won't have the manpower to resist Zentos' center attack and Kanki playing support.

    you had a great plan, but Zentos having a rather even distribution of men and officers makes it hard for you to succeed imo. what makes a cannae great is that even if you're outnumbered, as long as your wings hold an advantage and your center is able to lure but also hold when necessary, you can beat your opponent. I just don't see your wings being able to definitively beat Zentos' then have the strength left to envelope his center to win.

    The Glorious Fellowship of the Round Jacuzzi:
    https://i.imgur.com/tDbgtsy.jpg

  18. #38
    Juan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    9,708
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Kanki should definitely think it abnormal that you're sending too few to guard against a center attack yet have bulky wings

    the thing about your plan is, you rely too much on Zentos rushing in the center so you can flank him. his army is a big block and his own wings are fully prepped to combat a flank attacks on their respective sides. Gyouun will give Genbou fits and while I rate Kyouen > Junsou, the former doesn't have the power to overcome Gaimou with Kouyoku. Reebok can send out Kaishibou and Goba to equalize the wings and press Zentos, but that just works against you since Reebok won't have the manpower to resist Zentos' center attack and Kanki playing support.

    you had a great plan, but Zentos having a rather even distribution of men and officers makes it hard for you to succeed imo. what makes a cannae great is that even if you're outnumbered, as long as your wings hold an advantage and your center is able to lure but also hold when necessary, you can beat your opponent. I just don't see your wings being able to definitively beat Zentos' then have the strength left to envelope his center to win.
    i don't think you understoond the plan that much

    it goes this way in my mind:

    zentos' wings attack -> riboku sends ksb and goba to break through them -> after bypassing them, the charges hit kanki in full.

    after that, the untouched riboku army and ryuutou take on the rinbukun army.

    so it's:

    40k kyouen vs 40k gaimou with an incoming 15k to cause renpa level damage

    40k genbou vs 50k gyouun with an incoming 15k in goba.

    kanki stays in the back and eventually gets hit by ksb and (possibly) goba, with riboku + ryuutou's around 40k~ enveloping the rinbukun army.

    the cannae isn't necessary to win the battle, imo.

  19. #39
    선생님 Zentos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Posts
    11,613
    Both Kanki and, more importantly, Rinbukun are supposed to be wary of traps to lure them in. Since your armies aren't moving from their spot, and I've got 500 scouts on each side, they'll see Riboku's army unless he can somehow sneak 50k men. But, that's isn't really important here.

    What's important is that your wings have their hands full. They literally cannot spare a single man. What that means is that Ryuutou is gonna get blown to smithereens by the overwhelming force he faces. Instead of boxing me in, you're gonna lose your front line and see your flanks get chewed from inside out instead, on top of already being heavily pressured from the outside. Kanki isn't kind enough to let something like this slip past him, nor does he lack the intelligence to exploit such a situation.

    Junsou is a better strategist than Kyouen, but his unique style could still prove itself to be quite troublesome. That is, if he was on his own. With a beast like Gaimou under his control, there's really so much Kyouen can hope to achieve as Gaimou's might is led by Junsou to mow down anything that stands in his way.

    I was hoping that Gyou'un would run across Genpou, as his instinct comes in rather handy against the old schemer. If that wasn't enough to protect him, he's got two capable blades in front of himself who will be suffering the brunt of damage from whatever is thrown, giving Gyouun an extra measure of safety. Much like with Gaimou, anyone who finds himself in front of Gyou'un and the Ouki duo will find himself dumbfounded by their inability to draw another breath.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Juan View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    zentos' wings attack -> riboku sends ksb and goba to break through them -> after bypassing them, the charges hit kanki in full.

    after that, the untouched riboku army and ryuutou take on the rinbukun army.
    Imagine thinking Ksb and Goba can smash through my wings.

    Imagine thinking Ksb and Goba with 30k (supposing every single one of them can survive going through my flanks) can threaten Kanki with 30k. It seems like you are forgetting that Kanki is, on top of being magnitudes upon magnitudes smarter than them, also martially stronger than both.

  20. #40
    Juan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Location
    Earth
    Posts
    9,708
    this is why i don't like facing brute armies

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •