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  1. #1

    Why Riboku didn't send Gyou'un in the first day?

    Wouldn't the war arguably end already if he send him during first day to Qin's left wing instead of doing his ninja assassination thingy?


  2. #2
    선생님 Zentos's Avatar
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    I assume he underestimated Mouten, or rather, he didn't think he could rally the soldiers. It's not his fault, apart from Shin he hasn't had personal interactions with the new gens and wouldn't know how good they were first-hand, nor could he know that the Makou soldiers actually had it in them to stand up after their commander died.

    Besides, this was his first time facing Ousen, and he probably wanted to careful with how he approaches the fight.

  3. #3
    well according to everybody the ninja assassination thing was supposed to end the war already, then Mouten stepped in.

    then the initial left wing was supposed to win on their own but then Ouhon happened and they have to be reinforced

  4. #4
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    gyou'un was the zhao armies trump card

    someone to be held in reserve until the situation was crucial

    everyone was already surprised he was sent in as early as the 3rd day. feel people often forget that.

    he's too valuable a piece to be sent out casually on a whim

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  5. #5
    Marshmellow Justice Void's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    I assume he underestimated Mouten, or rather, he didn't think he could rally the soldiers. It's not his fault, apart from Shin he hasn't had personal interactions with the new gens and wouldn't know how good they were first-hand, nor could he know that the Makou soldiers actually had it in them to stand up after their commander died.

    Besides, this was his first time facing Ousen, and he probably wanted to careful with how he approaches the fight.
    basically this

    besides, him sending out Gyouun so soon isn't smart if Ousen hasn't shown his hand yet.

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  6. #6
    Riboku's use of Gyou'un is puzzling tbh. Depending on how you rate him....if he really is this "Tou parallel" then why the heck wasn't he just in charge of the entire left wing? Imagine it was Karin, Duke Hyou, Tou, Kanki, Ousen himself, Moubu etc aka other characters who're Tou/Q6 level and ask yourself how long it would take for the right side to get swept up?

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Riboku's use of Gyou'un is puzzling tbh. Depending on how you rate him....if he really is this "Tou parallel" then why the heck wasn't he just in charge of the entire left wing? Imagine it was Karin, Duke Hyou, Tou, Kanki, Ousen himself, Moubu etc aka other characters who're Tou/Q6 level and ask yourself how long it would take for the right side to get swept up?
    Well that just would be another "Tou parallel". Why the heck wasnt Tou in charge of anything in Bayou.

  8. #8
    선생님 Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Riboku's use of Gyou'un is puzzling tbh. Depending on how you rate him....if he really is this "Tou parallel" then why the heck wasn't he just in charge of the entire left wing? Imagine it was Karin, Duke Hyou, Tou, Kanki, Ousen himself, Moubu etc aka other characters who're Tou/Q6 level and ask yourself how long it would take for the right side to get swept up?
    Obviously, because he's not a Tou parallel, nor would the Qin right wing have any chance if any of the people you mentioned stood in front of them. If it's someone who goes in strong like the Duke or Moubu they get swept on the first day, if it's someone who's more careful/scheming it may take a few more days.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naki View Post
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    Well that just would be another "Tou parallel". Why the heck wasnt Tou in charge of anything in Bayou.
    It's not, because Tou was under Ouki and there were no wings. The Zhao right wing is under Riboku just as much as the left, yet Kisui is the head of the right, while the left has no such thing.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    Obviously, because he's not a Tou parallel, nor would the Qin right wing have any chance if any of the people you mentioned stood in front of them. If it's someone who goes in strong like the Duke or Moubu they get swept on the first day, if it's someone who's more careful/scheming it may take a few more days.

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    It's not, because Tou was under Ouki and there were no wings. The Zhao right wing is under Riboku just as much as the left, yet Kisui is the head of the right, while the left has no such thing.
    The point is it also doesnt make any sense that Tou didnt lead a battlefront himself.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Naki View Post
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    Well that just would be another "Tou parallel". Why the heck wasnt Tou in charge of anything in Bayou.
    Because he was a lieutenant that Ouki always kept hidden. Gyou'un isn't a luitenent of anyone in this arc - he's basically a standalone general (or part of a double act). Lieutenant and army commander are slightly different I guess?

    How likely would it be for Ouki to send Tou to play an even role with Gakuei? lol.

  11. #11
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Riboku's use of Gyou'un is puzzling tbh. Depending on how you rate him....if he really is this "Tou parallel" then why the heck wasn't he just in charge of the entire left wing?
    but he is...



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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    How likely would it be for Ouki to send Tou to play an even role with Gakuei? lol.
    you forget ou ki sent kan ou to play an even role with mou bu

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  12. #12
    선생님 Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naki View Post
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    The point is it also doesnt make any sense that Tou didnt lead a battlefront himself.
    What battlefront? There was a single front that Ouki commanded, there were no separate battlefields.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg boy View Post
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    but he is...

    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    Riboku didn't say he was the leader, he said "Gyou'un wing" which can be interpreted in as many ways as you want. Ousen saying CGR is the brain, however, has one, and only one single interpretation. Oh, and that's more recent than Riboku's comment, since that's your go-to argument.
    Point made.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Because he was a lieutenant that Ouki always kept hidden. Gyou'un isn't a luitenent of anyone in this arc - he's basically a standalone general (or part of a double act). Lieutenant and army commander are slightly different I guess?

    How likely would it be for Ouki to send Tou to play an even role with Gakuei? lol.
    the failure in your post is that you think im thinking Gyouun is on Tous level, the point is that Ouki didnt use Tou at all in Bayou beside a charge of his cavalry at the end of the battle even though he is nearly equal with him.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg boy View Post
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    but he is...



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    you forget ou ki sent kan ou to play an even role with mou bu
    "Our left wing lead by Gyou'un and the others" lol. It's been specifically stated a few times that they're working as independent armies with no chain of command. Think it was Ouhon that said it when they came up with the plan to take out Gakuei.

    Kanou and Moubu were in separate places though, there isn't a comparison to be made. Same way in which Akou and Makou are in different places.

  15. #15
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    What battlefront? There was a single front that Ouki commanded, there were no separate battlefields.

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    Point made.
    you're honestly making it very hard to take you seriously

    https://www.grammarly.com/blog/possessive-case/

    really not that many interpretations

    and an army can have a leader with another working as the brain, e.g. hi shin unit, among many others. you should know this. ou sen saying cgr is the brain isn't a retcon

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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Naki View Post
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    the failure in your post is that you think im thinking Gyouun is on Tous level, the point is that Ouki didnt use Tou at all in Bayou beside a charge of his cavalry at the end of the battle even though he is nearly equal with him.
    But Tou wasn't an army commander or even a general at that point.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    What battlefront? There was a single front that Ouki commanded, there were no separate battlefields.

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    Point made.
    We had 3 different battlefronts. Doukin, Ryuukoku and Rinbou together had 40'000 men while Tou was held as toyboy at Oukis side.

  18. #18
    선생님 Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bootleg boy View Post
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    you're honestly making it very hard to take you seriously

    https://www.grammarly.com/blog/possessive-case/

    really not that many interpretations

    and an army can have a leader with another working as the brain, e.g. hi shin unit, among many others. you should know this. ou sen saying cgr is the brain isn't a retcon
    Oh, so now Shin was leading the HSU and could've done it all without Ten? Because that's what you're saying. Gyou'un is leading, so it makes no difference if you remove the brain. Even Ouhon said there was no chain of command.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    But Tou wasn't an army commander or even a general at that point.
    That doesnt change the fact that it doesnt make any sense that Tou didnt lead any troops himself even though he was a 6GG guy himself.

  20. #20
    선생님 Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naki View Post
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    We had 3 different battlefronts. Doukin, Ryuukoku and Rinbou together had 40'000 men while Tou was held as toyboy at Oukis side.
    That's a single battlefield split into different units. Ouki could overlook all of it from a single point.

    The Shukai plains battlefields are so far apart that it's physically impossible to see one from the other, that's why Riboku had to ride out to tell them how to beat Akou. How are you not seeing the difference here?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Naki View Post
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    That doesnt change the fact that it doesnt make any sense that Tou didnt lead any troops himself even though he was a 6GG guy himself.
    It does, because there's no need for 2 heads on 1 battlefield.

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