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  1. #41
    Mr. Tambourine Man Rasendori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baji17 View Post
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    They fought on equal grounds, if anything Akainu had to hold his position so WB doesnt advance towards Ace so in fact WB was held to a stalemate and couldnt advance forward, also no WB did dish out attacks towards Akainu but none of it worked, the first one was the bisento swing which was blocked by Akainus feet and the second one was a clash between Akainus giant magma punch and WBs gura punch, WB blocks the magma dog move and in the next panel stress gets to him and he gets a heart attack, WB did not even once hurt Akainu in their initial encounter, same with Aokiji he dodges WB's bisento stab and was going on the offensive when he got hit by Jozu, or with Kizaru he has panel where he holds WBs bisento down with one foot and the other where he dodges WBs attack and laser beams him on the chest, every single admiral was able to hold their own comfortably against WB, shit got real only when WB was bloodlusted and even then that started with a sucker punch and came at the expense of losing half his head which was probably the final nail in the coffin for WB.

    Seastone cuffs take away the ability to use devil fruit powers, it doesnt make u automatically collapse at the touch of it, Marco collapsed due to fodder laser beams, hes got no endurance or durability feats whatsoever hes a one trick phony the moment his regeneration ability goes off he would get the Luffy treatment by the likes of Kaido.

    Not really, Akainu fell into the split portion of the island when the quake went off, WB couldnt pursue him after that and even if he wanted to he was way too busy with the marines on the other side of the plaza which he continues to fight until latter on when BB shows up, BB doesnt immediately show up so WB switches his attention to BB and just leaves Akainu lying there, did u even read the chapter?

    No u simply cant make a case as to why Marco would not get mid diffed by an admiral, also so nice of u to ignore the fact that he couldnt even hit Akainu on his combined attacks with Vista and latter on got to fight an injured Akainu with Vista and all the other commanders and they were on the back foot, they even lost another commander on the process against a single admiral and a bunch of fodder marines, the WB pirates were bullied after WBs death, Shanks saved them.
    Every hit the admirals got that actually hurt WB was after he got a heart attack. Are you implying that canonly the strongest man alive would lose to an admiral?

    As for the rest you're just wrong...

    Seastone cuffs have the same effects as the sea. They drain Devil fruit users strength ie. Smokers Jutte tip on Luffy.

    Fan fiction.. You think the strongest man alive wouldn't be able to slaughter a Ko'd Akainu because he fell down a crack?

    Marco wouldn't win against Akainu, but then again neither would any other admiral.
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  2. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasendori View Post
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    Every hit the admirals got that actually hurt WB was after he got a heart attack. Are you implying that canonly the strongest man alive would lose to an admiral?

    As for the rest you're just wrong...

    Seastone cuffs have the same effects as the sea. They drain Devil fruit users strength ie. Smokers Jutte tip on Luffy.

    Fan fiction.. You think the strongest man alive wouldn't be able to slaughter a Ko'd Akainu because he fell down a crack?

    Marco wouldn't win against Akainu, but then again neither would any other admiral.
    In character WB wasnt able to get past any of the admirals during every confrontation with them, if he had the power to just take them out and forge on he would but he couldnt and he had every reason to because he was a man on a mission, the only time he was able to put one down admittedly for a short time was when he was bloodlusted and got a free first hit and even then that was at the expense of half his head, what I am saying is that WB isnt beating any of the admirals with lower than high difficulty, the admirals proved that they can give WB a high difficulty fight.

    I am simply saying what happened on the manga chapter, Akainu fell down the crack and WB did not pursue him but instead was acting as a cover for his crew, would WB be able to kill Akainu if he pursued him? Probably but what point are u trying to make here? When I said that it was an remarkable endurance feat for Akainu to come back after that second hit I didnt imply that if the fight continued right then and there Akainu would win or something, Akainu lost there and I never said he didnt, admittedly his attack on WBs head was probably an injury that would take WBs life regardless, sooner or latter.

    The admirals are almost dead equal, atleast the C3, it was just that Akainu was the more ruthless one during Marineford, the difference between the admirals is so small that a ten days fight which leaves the fighters with permanent scars which is beyond extreme difficulty separates them, so Aokiji would probably put on the same show as Akainu did if he was as determined as Akainu was.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by xenos5 View Post
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    None of them can win obviously. So a better question is who lasts the longest?

    Can Marco last the longest just taking attacks and regenerating or can Katakuri last the longest if he focuses entirely on seeing the future and dodges accordingly?

    While Luffy did get a CoO boost his Future Sight still isnít really on Katakuriís level (its inconsistent and closer to sensing the intention of attacks then seeing a vision with complete visual and auditory information) and he canít make his entire body lose all form (Katakuri can purposely make holes in his body, become a stream of Mochi that allowed him to catch up to G4 Luffy even after he got a headstart, or a Mochi Donut that kind of blitzed Snakeman).

    Though another scenario is them all running away from Kaido. In that case I think in order of travel speed Marco running on the ground=Katakuri running on the ground<Flying Boundman<Flowing Mochi Katakuri=Flying Marco<Flying Snakeman<Donut Mochi Katakuri
    What would Katakuri's Observation really do here? It didn't seem to help him that much against Luffy so how is it going to help him at all against Kaidou? Heck, Katakuri has never even fought someone able to dodge him much until Luffy came along. Meanwhile we have Marco fighting every one of the C3 and not looking bad for it whilst also still being held in extremely high regard by a lot of very powerful people.

    Honestly, I almost see this going the same way it went with Luffy alone. Kaidou attacks once, takes out Luffy and Katakuri, Marco regenerates and then the man gives a decent performance until his flames run out.
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  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifista View Post
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    What would Katakuri's Observation really do here? It didn't seem to help him that much against Luffy so how is it going to help him at all against Kaidou?
    Luffy could not land a single blow on Katakuri until 1. Katakuri's future sight was briefly disabled by him being pissed off with his mouth being seen and 2. Luffy got a massive CoO boost over the course of many hours and only til the very end did it start bearing any fruit (Luffy landing one punch on him before using Snakeman).

    Luffy working so hard to improve his CoO also implied he needed to do that and Snakeman on its own wasn't enough (otherwise he would've just used Snakeman as soon as he returned to the mirror world).

    Kaido blitzed a pissed off Boundman (and being pissed off inhibits CoO) but i'm not so sure he could do the same to a calm Snakeman, and Katakuri's future sight is still better than Luffy's + he dodged all of Black Mamba meaning his reactions are > Snakeman with improved CoO.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifista View Post
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    Heck, Katakuri has never even fought someone able to dodge him much until Luffy came along. Meanwhile we have Marco fighting every one of the C3 and not looking bad for it whilst also still being held in extremely high regard by a lot of very powerful people.
    How does Marco fighting alongside Vista against Akainu and being able to do nothing but annoy him and not damage him at all not look bad for Marco?

    The C3 are all on the same general level. Thus Marco likely can't do anything better than annoy the other admirals.

    I'm not saying Katakuri can do better. But I would say Marco isn't somehow above First Mate level and nearing admiral level as some people seem to think. I would say any Yonko First Mate would likely have an extreme diff fight against another Yonko First Mate that could go either way.

    Also when did Katakuri say he never fought anyone who could dodge him as much as Luffy? I thought he said something more like "it's been a while since someone has dodged me this much" basically meaning he has had fights with high level opponents but it's rarer for them to have as good CoO and maneuverability as Luffy (which makes sense since with Luffy's rubber body he can do stuff like stretch his head independently from his body unlike other opponents).

    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifista View Post
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    Honestly, I almost see this going the same way it went with Luffy alone. Kaidou attacks once, takes out Luffy and Katakuri, Marco regenerates and then the man gives a decent performance until his flames run out.
    Luffy didn't use Snakeman against Kaido, he didn't use CoO against Kaido (because he was pissed), he wasn't attempting to dodge or trying to run away from Kaido.

    Katakuri is as fast as Snakeman, he has no reason to be pissed off, his future sight is still better than Luffy's improved CoO (because it is consistent and also gives him more detailed visions), and he can not only stretch but also lose all form when shifting his body (Flowing Mochi turns him into a stream of mochi flowing across the ground at high speeds). He can dodge in ways Luffy wouldn't be able to because he can't become a liquidy substance. Lastly Katakuri's Donut Mochi form was portrayed as insanely fast. It closed a large gap between Katakuri and Snakeman Luffy fast enough that Luffy failed to react and got slammed by Diced Mochi. Luffy was completely surprised despite both his heightened reaction speed and improved CoO.

    Luffy rather than surpassing Katakuri in all stats (he clearly didn't) used Snakeman + Improved CoO to as a kind of counter Katakuri with a combination of both attacks that increase in speed mid-flight and unpredictability due to how the attacks come from weird angles.

    But considering Katakuri adapted and even dodged a gatling (Black Mamba) from a form that was supposed to counter him, Katakuri's mastered Future Sight and his own speed still made a difference. I think dodging Black Mamba is enough to say Katakuri would certainly dodge more attacks than Luffy or Marco (the former who doesn't have as good of CoO, and I highly doubt would be able to dodge all of his own highest speed gatling, Black Mamba and the latter whose speed we don't know how exactly it compares with Snakeman and we have no idea about his CoO).

    I don't think Marco is on another level of speed and power than Luffy and Katakuri to begin with (I think they're all in the same general range) but I especially don't think Marco exceeds Katakuri in the area he is best at (evasion) when we don't know how good Marco's CoO is but we do know Katakuri has legitimate future sight. So I don't think Marco is the only one who can give "a decent performance" while Katakuri does nothing but get oneshotted as a slower form of Luffy without CoO did. Katakuri is not the same as pissed off Boundman at all (as soon as Katakuri got his future sight back he was knocking Boundman around so he couldn't get close at all and completely avoiding Kong Organ just by shifting his body).

    And rather than trying to continuously evade I think Marco would try to take advantage of his regeneration and keep attacking while in the middle of receiving attacks (which could end up with him getting more focus on him and Kaido taking him out earlier as a result). I could see Katakuri dodging/evading longer than it would take for a Kaido who is focusing on the opponent trying to attack him the most (Marco) to find a way to lethally injury him in a way he couldn't regenerate back from (we don't know Marco's regeneration limits but for example Kaido could pull Marco's head off his body after getting him in a grab. I really don't know how or if without a brain giving commands to the body Marco's ability would still be able to work).

    And in a scenario where they're all running away the first one to get caught (the slowest of the 3) is the one Kaido will try his hardest to break so he can start running again to catch up to the other two fleeing opponents. Maybe you could say Marco is as fast as Snakeman (i'm not sure of that) but Luffy still has better CoO feats than Marco (since we don't know Marco's level of CoO) and Katakuri even better then that.
    Last edited by xenos5; 11-08-2018 at 08:35 AM.

  5. #45
    Mr. Tambourine Man Rasendori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by baji17 View Post
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    In character WB wasnt able to get past any of the admirals during every confrontation with them, if he had the power to just take them out and forge on he would but he couldnt and he had every reason to because he was a man on a mission, the only time he was able to put one down admittedly for a short time was when he was bloodlusted and got a free first hit and even then that was at the expense of half his head, what I am saying is that WB isnt beating any of the admirals with lower than high difficulty, the admirals proved that they can give WB a high difficulty fight.

    I am simply saying what happened on the manga chapter, Akainu fell down the crack and WB did not pursue him but instead was acting as a cover for his crew, would WB be able to kill Akainu if he pursued him? Probably but what point are u trying to make here? When I said that it was an remarkable endurance feat for Akainu to come back after that second hit I didnt imply that if the fight continued right then and there Akainu would win or something, Akainu lost there and I never said he didnt, admittedly his attack on WBs head was probably an injury that would take WBs life regardless, sooner or latter.

    The admirals are almost dead equal, atleast the C3, it was just that Akainu was the more ruthless one during Marineford, the difference between the admirals is so small that a ten days fight which leaves the fighters with permanent scars which is beyond extreme difficulty separates them, so Aokiji would probably put on the same show as Akainu did if he was as determined as Akainu was.
    Akainu and Kizaru got a free hit in with WB when he had a heart attack, none of them did nearly as much damage as WB did Akainu.

    That said I think an argument could be made the WB high diff's admirals, that I'm not really interested in debating. You were wrong about Marco on both counts, are we ignoring this?
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  6. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasendori View Post
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    Akainu and Kizaru got a free hit in with WB when he had a heart attack, none of them did nearly as much damage as WB did Akainu.
    lol.

  7. #47
    Mr. Tambourine Man Rasendori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
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    lol.
    Think otherwise?
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  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasendori View Post
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    Think otherwise?
    if after the last exchange between Whitebeard and Akainu signify the end of the war. After 1 day, who is the one dying and who is the one that’s going to be living perfectly fine?

  9. #49
    Mr. Tambourine Man Rasendori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
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    if after the last exchange between Whitebeard and Akainu signify the end of the war. After 1 day, who is the one dying and who is the one that’s going to be living perfectly fine?
    The heart attack hit was before the last exchange genius...
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  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasendori View Post
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    lulz The heart attack hit was before the last exchange...
    well, it doesn’t really change.

    Whitebeard gets a new big ass hole to breathe through on his chest while Akainu...is perfectly fine.

  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
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    well, it doesn’t really change.

    Whitebeard gets a new big ass hole to breathe through on his chest while Akainu...is perfectly fine.
    The hole was an anime thing. It was superficial in the manga...

    WB clocked Akainu so hard he fainted, and that was verge of death WB.
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  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasendori View Post
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    The hole was an anime thing. It was superficial in the manga...

    WB clocked Akainu so hard he fainted, and that was verge of death WB.
    ??? you need to double check. It landed squarely on his chest and left a hole.

    Akainu didn’t faint, he was momentarily stunned and it wasn’t for too long as he held onto the rocks protuding in the cliff, and proceed to go back above ground.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
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    ??? you need to double check. It landed squarely on his chest and left a hole.

    Akainu didn’t faint, he was momentarily stunned and it wasn’t for too long as he held onto the rocks protuding in the cliff, and proceed to go back above ground.
    The "hole" was a bloodied print that only went surface level, akin to Luffy's scar but much tinier.

    Wow you clearly need to reread what happened. He was out for literally the entirety of BB's introduction into him capturing WB's devil fruit...
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  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasendori View Post
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    The "hole" was a bloodied print that only went surface level, akin to Luffy's scar but much tinier.

    Wow you clearly need to reread what happened. He was out for literally the entirety of BB's introduction into him capturing WB's devil fruit...




    the hole is literally almost the size of his head.

    come back when you could find Akainu have any lasting damage.

  15. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
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    the hole is literally almost the size of his head.

    come back when you could find Akainu have any lasting damage.
    'tis nothing but a flesh wound


  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasendori View Post
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    Akainu and Kizaru got a free hit in with WB when he had a heart attack, none of them did nearly as much damage as WB did Akainu.

    That said I think an argument could be made the WB high diff's admirals, that I'm not really interested in debating. You were wrong about Marco on both counts, are we ignoring this?
    Akainu literally killed WB in two hits, especially the second hit remove any wound before that and WB would still most probably die, aint no one living with half a head, Blackbeard simply accelerated the whole prcoess also while I agree that Akainu got a free hit on him there also the fact that WB did get a free hit on Akainu too during the second encounter.

    Explain to me how am I wrong about Marco on both counts? Its a fact that Marco couldnt hit Akainu on their initial encounter and in the second one he had all the other commanders backing him up and he still failed to do anything to Akainu, I am simply telling what happened in the manga, people on this forum have been coming up with all kinds of excuses on why Marco couldnt do jack shit to Akainu and yet none of them sounds credible but instead just sounds like ramblings of people who try so hard to cling to an outdated view on One piece power levels, same with the Jozu Doflamingo controversy, years and years of petty excuses just to be proven wrong by the manga.
    Last edited by baji17; 11-09-2018 at 09:49 PM.

  17. #57
    Mr. Tambourine Man Rasendori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
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    the hole is literally almost the size of his head.

    come back when you could find Akainu have any lasting damage.
    Lol nice response to your "Akainu didn't faint"

    I don't see how that image proves anything. It's full of blood... Like ya know if i burned skin off my chest of that size, it'd probably be full of blood. That didn't INCAPACITATE WB. Whereas if WB continued his onslaught, Akainu would be dead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by baji17 View Post
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    Akainu literally killed WB in two hits, especially the second hit remove any wound before that and WB would still most probably die, aint no one living with half a head, Blackbeard simply accelerated the whole prcoess also while I agree that Akainu got a free hit on him there also the fact that WB did get a free hit on Akainu too during the second encounter.

    Explain to me how am I wrong about Marco on both counts? Its a fact that Marco couldnt hit Akainu on their initial encounter and in the second one he had all the other commanders backing him up and he still failed to do anything to Akainu, I am simply telling what happened in the manga, people on this forum have been coming up with all kinds of excuses on why Marco couldnt do jack shit to Akainu and yet none of them sounds credible but instead just sounds like ramblings of people who try so hard to cling to an outdated view on One piece power levels, same with the Jozu Doflamingo controversy, years and years of petty excuses just to be proven wrong by the manga.
    1. Seastone cuffs drain DF users of strength... If the current chapter didn't make it clear to you.

    2. Not kiling Akainu doesn't prove Marco isn't admiral level. We don't know how Akainu survived that encounter with the WB pirates except that all the high tier WB pirates also came out unscathed.
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  18. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasendori View Post
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    Lol nice response to your "Akainu didn't faint"

    I don't see how that image proves anything. It's full of blood... Like ya know if i burned skin off my chest of that size, it'd probably be full of blood. That didn't INCAPACITATE WB. Whereas if WB continued his onslaught, Akainu would be dead.
    You gotta show proof if you claim Akainu fainted cause if he did, he would of drown to his death. He was only momentarily stunned for a moment, just enough to grab onto a rock and dig his way up again. Why're you ignoring this?

    It proves it wasn't just a flesh wound

  19. #59
    Mr. Tambourine Man Rasendori's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightfall View Post
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    You gotta show proof if you claim Akainu fainted cause if he did, he would of drown to his death. He was only momentarily stunned for a moment, just enough to grab onto a rock and dig his way up again. Why're you ignoring this?

    It proves it wasn't just a flesh wound
    You're saying Aainu let BB steal WB's devil fruit because he was stunned for for all that time? And climbing held him down?

    What constitutes otherwise? He clearly could keep battling the entire war since the attack, whereas Akainu couldn't after WB's.
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  20. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rasendori View Post
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    You're saying Aainu let BB steal WB's devil fruit because he was stunned for for all that time? And climbing held him down?

    What constitutes otherwise? He clearly could keep battling the entire war since the attack, whereas Akainu couldn't after WB's.
    He had a bigger priority, killing Luffy. He already done his job of landing a fatal blow on Whitebeard, he was going to die soon. Sengoku and Garp dealt with Blackbeard.

    "Who took more damage?"

    Akainu, who had no lasting injuries that impedes him afterwards while Whitebeard, (whether in exchange 1 or 2, i don't care which one) had more severe damage. The 2nd exchange just pushed Wb towards his death even faster which allowed the likes of Teach to end him.

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