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  1. #161
    Not White too

    Marineford was riddled with inconsistencies and you guys want to point towards some minor event that contradicts everything else we've seen to prove your point. Ridiculous.
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  2. #162
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra View Post
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    But these structural consistencies have always been meaningful in One Piece, there's no basis for the assertion that it's meaningless. Even without these motif it's still strange for some mostly unremarkable 3rd subordinate to beat the first of another Yonkou. That position carries with it a lot of significance as we seen in the case of Marco after WB died. Katakuri has been strongly developed as a threat as well.

    If Whitebeard's first mates really were that exceptional we would have seen that clearly in the war, instead we mostly got them being dominated with a few instances of them being able to "hang with" admiral level fighters
    They are meaningful but that doesn’t mean there’s a 1:1 correlation.

    Its because they they were so exceptional that they could waltz up to the strongest military force in the world, despite a dying captain, and almost win.
    No.​

  3. #163
    Quote Originally Posted by Zu View Post
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    Not White too

    Marineford was riddled with inconsistencies and you guys want to point towards some minor event that contradicts everything else we've seen to prove your point. Ridiculous.
    Can you tell me what says that Vista cant keep up with Katakuri if he can keep up with Mihawk? Im just going facts that happened in the manga

  4. #164
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
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    Vista fought on par with Mihawk, Katakuri never. I dont know why this is difficult for your brain to grasp.

    It makes sense that WBs crew is stronger than the average yonkous crew, he never would have been confident he could save Ace if he had people like Cracker as his third best. The commanders showed they where good enough to rescue Ace in MF, Ace just made a mistake
    Vista didn't fight "on par" with Mihawk

    Vista stalled him to allow Luffy to escape and him and Mihawk had the swordsman equivalent of getting coffee together before fucking off and deciding to do something else.

    And that one instance does not invalidate the majority where Vista/Jozu/Marco performed embarrassingly if you're holding them to the same standards as an admiral

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    They are meaningful but that doesn’t mean there’s a 1:1 correlation.

    Its because they they were so exceptional that they could waltz up to the strongest military force in the world, despite a dying captain, and almost win.
    That also has to do with their size

    Now of course WB has the strongest crew in the world and his top 3 will be marginally stronger than the other top threes, sure.

    But Vista > Katakuri? Nah.

  5. #165
    Quote Originally Posted by Zu View Post
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    Not White too

    Marineford was riddled with inconsistencies and you guys want to point towards some minor event that contradicts everything else we've seen to prove your point. Ridiculous.
    The whole manga is riddled with inconsistencies and red-herrings. By the logic some of you guys are presenting we should just throw the ewhoke manga away and take nothing seriously.
    No.​

  6. #166
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    So PoPs actually said Vista would mess Katakuri up. What has this forum come to?

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  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra View Post
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    That also has to do with their size

    Now of course WB has the strongest crew in the world and his top 3 will be marginally stronger than the other top threes, sure.

    But Vista > Katakuri? Nah.
    Yes, which I’ve been saying for ages now.

    You can make whatever excuses you want, but Vista fought someone stronger than Shanks and Luffy just got one shorted by one of Shanks’ rivals the arc after Luffy beat Katakuri.
    No.​

  8. #168
    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
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    Can you tell me what says that Vista cant keep up with Katakuri if he can keep up with Mihawk? Im just going facts that happened in the manga
    How about the litter of scenes showing Mihawk failing to dispatch enemies far weaker than Vista. The dude was strolling through Marineford without a care in the world and one little clash with Mihawk is enough to cement Vista as being stronger than Katakuri? We've been told the Yonko have all clashed numerous times and Katakuri is still defeated. You think he was just fighting the fodder in Whitebeard's crew all that time?

    Literally, why would a Third Mate be heads and shoulders above another Yonko's FM. The best you could ask for is that Marco maybe high high-diffs Katakuri, not this Vista >> Katakuri line
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  9. #169
    Mihawk asked Vista to back off, and Mihawk is on Kaidous level. If Vista was as strong as Cracker at best, why wouldnt he just one shot him like Kaidou did to Luffy this chapter? You guys talk about inconsistency but they go both ways, all we really have at the end of the day is evidence of whats happened

  10. #170
    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
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    Can you tell me what says that Vista cant keep up with Katakuri if he can keep up with Mihawk? Im just going facts that happened in the manga
    We saw Vista fail to get past intangibility, so explain to me why you think he can hurt Katakuri. Im just going facts that happened in the manga

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
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    Mihawk asked Vista to back off, and Mihawk is on Kaidous level. If Vista was as strong as Cracker at best, why wouldnt he just one shot him like Kaidou did to Luffy this chapter? You guys talk about inconsistency but they go both ways, all we really have at the end of the day is evidence of whats happened
    Would I pummel a five year old into submission for annoying me?
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  12. #172
    Quote Originally Posted by Zu View Post
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    How about the litter of scenes showing Mihawk failing to dispatch enemies far weaker than Vista. The dude was strolling through Marineford without a care in the world and one little clash with Mihawk is enough to cement Vista as being stronger than Katakuri? We've been told the Yonko have all clashed numerous times and Katakuri is still defeated. You think he was just fighting the fodder in Whitebeard's crew all that time?

    Literally, why would a Third Mate be heads and shoulders above another Yonko's FM. The best you could ask for is that Marco maybe high high-diffs Katakuri, not this Vista >> Katakuri line
    The fights between Yonkos are never decisive, and just because Katakuri clashes with different people doesnt mean he outrights beats them or vice versa. You can have skirmishes with no winner, much like we saw at MF

  13. #173
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
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    Mihawk asked Vista to back off, and Mihawk is on Kaidous level. If Vista was as strong as Cracker at best, why wouldnt he just one shot him like Kaidou did to Luffy this chapter? You guys talk about inconsistency but they go both ways, all we really have at the end of the day is evidence of whats happened
    Because of Mihawk's personality. No, seriously. He wouldn't want to kill swordsman worthy of his respect, and we really haven't seen Mihawk get serious against anyone so far.

    The body of evidence shows Vista performing far more modestly and it's that we should be giving more consideration

  14. #174
    Quote Originally Posted by Zu View Post
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    Would I pummel a five year old into submission for annoying me?
    Daz Bones also annoyed Mihawk in Marineford, if Mihawk could just one shot Vista then why wouldnt he just do to him what he did to Daz Bones?

  15. #175
    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
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    The fights between Yonkos are never decisive, and just because Katakuri clashes with different people doesnt mean he outrights beats them or vice versa. You can have skirmishes with no winner, much like we saw at MF
    If the Whitebeard Pirates were as powerful as you're saying they were, they would have no problem winning in these little skirmishes.

    And for those peddling the bigger crew argument, let's not act like any Yonko with Haoshoku wouldn't dispatch the majority of those pirates within 2 seconds.
    Last edited by Zu; 11-03-2018 at 03:07 AM.
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  16. #176
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    Why do people take Marineford feats as gospel? Most of them made no sense. 60% rule of cool.



    Crocodile survived Jozu and clashed evenly with Doflamingo, Luffy ate multiple kicks from Kizaru and made Garp bleed, etc.

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  17. #177
    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
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    Daz Bones also annoyed Mihawk in Marineford, if Mihawk could just one shot Vista then why wouldnt he just do to him what he did to Daz Bones?
    There's a huge disparity there. Mihawk also didn't one-shot Crocodile after they clashed. Dude was just trying hard enough to dispatch fodder. Daz Bones being one of them.
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  18. #178
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Someone find me that panel where Mihawk is dueling Vista while looking the other way at Luffy

  19. #179
    Mihawk failed to one shot Luffy, Daz and Crocodile, you guys ignore it.

    Vista fails to hurt Akainu, you guys ignore it.

    Vista and Mihawk fight, you guys don't ignore that.

    Inconsistent.

  20. #180
    Quote Originally Posted by A View Post
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    We saw Vista fail to get past intangibility, so explain to me why you think he can hurt Katakuri. Im just going facts that happened in the manga
    Whitebeard failed to get past the admirals intangibility numerous times, fights between top tiers are complicated and we dont quite know how it really works logia intangibility really works at the top level. If we assume Haki is related to how focused you are in the fight it would make sense they couldnt get past his intangibility if they just saw Ace and Whitebeard die, and where likely both mentally and physically exhausted at that point.

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