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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Drift View Post
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    trash argument. there are countless characters even faster that go around via vehicular transport.



  2. #22
    Not Gay Drift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cichy View Post
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    i thought you were engaging in debate in a debate section or something my bad haha silly me


  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Cichy View Post
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    From the spark effects going in all directions it seem to me that he moved a gun a lot. Even the bulletholes at the wall look like it was shot by a moving gun.

    In that case, I have nothing more to add to convince you. The fact that Marco has his eyes closed alone makes this feat at least doubtful.
    The 20 or so bullet holes were only spread out a few feet as it's a small wall. No reason to assume he moved the gun much

    The gun was already aimed...I don't see what closing his eyes has to do with anything

    And even if we fundamentally disagree on both of those feats, there's still Bradley's which partially scale to EoS Ed

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
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    The 20 or so bullet holes were only spread out a few feet as it's a small wall. No reason to assume he moved the gun much

    The gun was already aimed...I don't see what closing his eyes has to do with anything

    And even if we fundamentally disagree on both of those feats, there's still Bradley's which partially scale to EoS Ed
    If he closed his eyes before pulling the trigger then he clearly didn't notice Ed dodging to the left. Otherwise, he could have adjust his aim.

    How does Bradlay scale to EoS Ed? From what I know, he still should be significantlly faster.

  5. #25
    It's High Noon McCree's Avatar
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    Ed himself has a hypersonic feat. He dodged a point blank shot from Dr Marcoh in like chapter 5

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    Either way, Ed has Town+ level durability at the very least since he was able to tank an energy blast from Father, Deku would have no real way to inflict meaningful damage.

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    Either way, Ed has Town+ level durability at the very least since he was able to tank an energy blast from Father, Deku would have no real way to inflict meaningful damage.
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  6. #26
    baste Hunterchad/Jobro Wi S. Kennedeh's Avatar
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    Deku hs the mobility and agility to dodge and maneouver around Ed's defenses and attacks, which aren't very different from the walls/blocks Cementoss throws up

    the biggest threat here is Ed's blade arm, but Deku is no stranger to bladed weapons and Stain was way more skilled with them than Ed, and he still out maneouvered and punched him in the head

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Cichy View Post
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    If he closed his eyes before pulling the trigger then he clearly didn't notice Ed dodging to the left. Otherwise, he could have adjust his aim.

    How does Bradlay scale to EoS Ed? From what I know, he still should be significantlly faster.
    There's nothing to suggest he started dodging prior to the bullet being fired. Using him closing his eyes as he fired is hardly indicative of what you're saying. Which is why I'd assume your brought up the gag scene argument to try and lead some credence to your argument

    Well considering you resorted to posting Ed's feats from two years before the series even started, I doubt you plan on accepting the scaling regardless of how obvious it is. Oh well, I'll try anyway

    Sloth is faster than Bradley and Armstrong blocked one of Sloth's full speed dashes. No reason to think Armstrong is fast enough to wreck Roy so that scales to him as well as everyone above him. Not to mention Roy reacted to Bradley from a few meters away and launched an attack. Ed gets it because he was fucking up Father who easily outmaneuvered Greedling multiple times and Greedling could hold his own against a Bradley who was a lot more serious than he was when he performed any of his hypersonic feats

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wi S. Kennedeh View Post
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    Deku hs the mobility and agility to dodge and maneouver around Ed's defenses and attacks, which aren't very different from the walls/blocks Cementoss throws up

    the biggest threat here is Ed's blade arm, but Deku is no stranger to bladed weapons and Stain was way more skilled with them than Ed, and he still out maneouvered and punched him in the head
    The biggest threat is the fact that Ed can oneshot Deku if he ever gets a hand on him

  8. #28
    baste Hunterchad/Jobro Wi S. Kennedeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
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    There's nothing to suggest he started dodging prior to the bullet being fired. Using him closing his eyes as he fired is hardly indicative of what you're saying. Which is why I'd assume your brought up the gag scene argument to try and lead some credence to your argument

    Well considering you resorted to posting Ed's feats from two years before the series even started, I doubt you plan on accepting the scaling regardless of how obvious it is. Oh well, I'll try anyway

    Sloth is faster than Bradley and Armstrong blocked one of Sloth's full speed dashes. No reason to think Armstrong is fast enough to wreck Roy so that scales to him as well as everyone above him. Not to mention Roy reacted to Bradley from a few meters away and launched an attack. Ed gets it because he was fucking up Father who easily outmaneuvered Greedling multiple times and Greedling could hold his own against a Bradley who was a lot more serious than he was when he performed any of his hypersonic feats

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    The biggest threat is the fact that Ed can oneshot Deku if he ever gets a hand on him
    How? Deku has every possible category plus the fact that at 8 percent he can literally smash through all of Ed's constructs and 2-3 shot him

    Deku also has his gamma suit on meaning he has ranged attacks with his iron sole shoes, meaning he can Shoot Stlye shockwaves at Ed and constructs before closing in for that close combat damage

    Plus, Deku dodging machine gun fire at near point blank in a narrow hallway is just as good if not better than any of Ed's bullet timing, which were done with WW2 era guns, while the bullets fired at Deku move at 3200 FPS as they were M16 rounds

    it's also not in character for Ed to just cut children down, and he usually goes CQC off the bat with alchemy complimenting his fighting

    Ed might be smarter in book smarts, but in tactical and combat prowess they're just about the same

  9. #29
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  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Wi S. Kennedeh View Post
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    How? Deku has every possible category plus the fact that at 8 percent he can literally smash through all of Ed's constructs and 2-3 shot him

    Deku also has his gamma suit on meaning he has ranged attacks with his iron sole shoes, meaning he can Shoot Stlye shockwaves at Ed and constructs before closing in for that close combat damage

    Plus, Deku dodging machine gun fire at near point blank in a narrow hallway is just as good if not better than any of Ed's bullet timing, which were done with WW2 era guns, while the bullets fired at Deku move at 3200 FPS as they were M16 rounds

    it's also not in character for Ed to just cut children down, and he usually goes CQC off the bat with alchemy complimenting his fighting

    Ed might be smarter in book smarts, but in tactical and combat prowess they're just about the same
    You using a movie for feats?
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Wi S. Kennedeh View Post
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    How? Deku has every possible category plus the fact that at 8 percent he can literally smash through all of Ed's constructs and 2-3 shot him

    Deku also has his gamma suit on meaning he has ranged attacks with his iron sole shoes, meaning he can Shoot Stlye shockwaves at Ed and constructs before closing in for that close combat damage

    Plus, Deku dodging machine gun fire at near point blank in a narrow hallway is just as good if not better than any of Ed's bullet timing, which were done with WW2 era guns, while the bullets fired at Deku move at 3200 FPS as they were M16 rounds

    it's also not in character for Ed to just cut children down, and he usually goes CQC off the bat with alchemy complimenting his fighting

    Ed might be smarter in book smarts, but in tactical and combat prowess they're just about the same
    None of this is true and Ed has deconstruction alchemy which bypasses durability

    Deku's feat was supersonic, same as Ed's, granted Ed scales to hypersonic so he's faster in terms of reactions and combat speed

    Why are you assuming Deku is going to paste Ed if you're going to use Ed being IC to argue he won't go for the kill? If Ed can't go for the kill, his moveset will be far more restricted than Deku's

    Nahh, I disagree. Deku is good in that regard, but Ed is the biggest Alchemist celebrity in the country of Amestris besides Mustang and it's in part because of his fame garnered from his combat prowess and tactics

  12. #32
    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
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    There's nothing to suggest he started dodging prior to the bullet being fired. Using him closing his eyes as he fired is hardly indicative of what you're saying.
    ?
    There's also nothing to suggest he started dodging before the bullet was fired.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
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    Which is why I'd assume your brought up the gag scene argument to try and lead some credence to your argument
    You didn't answer to this, meaning that you don't have any counterarguments, so you're just trying to point out something that doesn't have to do with anything at all.
    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
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    Well considering you resorted to posting Ed's feats from two years before the series even started, I doubt you plan on accepting the scaling regardless of how obvious it is. Oh well, I'll try anyway

    Sloth is faster than Bradley and Armstrong blocked one of Sloth's full speed dashes. No reason to think Armstrong is fast enough to wreck Roy so that scales to him as well as everyone above him. Not to mention Roy reacted to Bradley from a few meters away and launched an attack. Ed gets it because he was fucking up Father who easily outmaneuvered Greedling multiple times and Greedling could hold his own against a Bradley who was a lot more serious than he was when he performed any of his hypersonic feats
    This scaling makes absolutely no sense.

    1. Greedling fighting Bradley can barely be called "holding his own". He could only do something because of other two people supporting him.
    2. Ed was only fucking up weakened and worned up father after the fight with the army and several alchemists. After that, father took down Greeling by distracting him with shockwave, NOT by outperforming him physically.

    As far as speed goes

    Bradley >>> Greeling >>>> Ed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
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    Deku's feat was supersonic, same as Ed's, granted Ed scales to hypersonic so he's faster in terms of reactions and combat speed
    If you're talking about vs wikia calculations that I linked before then it was only calculating Deku dodging one bullet. Deku dodging series of bullets from two machine guns is easily comperable to Bradley's best feats of speed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zu View Post
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    You using a movie for feats?
    The movie is written by Horikoshi and 100% canon.
    Last edited by Cichy; 10-11-2018 at 12:41 AM.

  13. #33
    baste Hunterchad/Jobro Wi S. Kennedeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
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    None of this is true and Ed has deconstruction alchemy which bypasses durability

    Deku's feat was supersonic, same as Ed's, granted Ed scales to hypersonic so he's faster in terms of reactions and combat speed

    Why are you assuming Deku is going to paste Ed if you're going to use Ed being IC to argue he won't go for the kill? If Ed can't go for the kill, his moveset will be far more restricted than Deku's

    Nahh, I disagree. Deku is good in that regard, but Ed is the biggest Alchemist celebrity in the country of Amestris besides Mustang and it's in part because of his fame garnered from his combat prowess and tactics
    It is, he smashes through debris and rubble comparable to Ed's constructs pretty casually, Deku can destabilize the ground around Ed with shockwaves too and there's a very high chance of Ed's automail being smashed apart if Deku lands a hit on it


    https://m.imgur.com/a/rISfy


    https://m.imgur.com/6OFUla6




    This is mid tier 8 percent Deku, the first is him at 5 percent

    Hell, even Greed is able to destroy them, but either way Ed isn't dependent on staying at long range and will engage Deku in CQC where he can be dominated

    It's made even more impressive because Deku has never encountered guns before, and I still consider dodging and deflecting heavy machine gun fire in a very narrow hallway to be better than a standard pistol

    That's a whole lot of scaling just for Ed to be hypersonic, I agree that Ed should be able to perceive Bradley but him being on his level or able to contend in a fight against him or something is untrue

    But even if he does have slightly better reactions, Deku has every other category including overwhelming agility/mobility. He might not be as durable as say, Greed, but he has better reflexes, endurance power and striking strength as well as mobility on top of being a far more skilled, strategic and tactical fighter

    He won't use blades lethally against people, which is what he'll resort to here, Deku isn't going to pulp him either but a few good body shots should be enough
    There's still ways for him to restrain or knock Midoriya out

    The only time Ed used deconstruction alchemy was when he showered Greed in debris by destroying his own construct, he can use it but he's no Scar lol, at most he'll use it on a artificial limb or some other non lethal way

    Even Ed's EoS constructs should be comparable to Overhaul's reassembly/disassembly in speed


    Him abusing alchemy to this extent is pretty OOC too, he was bloodlusted here and it leaves him wide open, at most he'll make some decent sized spikes and walls like in his fight with Greed and Scar


    Just look at the way Deku moves



    Midoriya was able to deduce what Stain's quirk was from just a few exchanges, at the start of their fight could dodge Stain's slashes and outmaneuver him at just 5 percent and land a clean smash on his head, not even going into how he moves between buildings with jumps, he demonstrated very impressive awareness and is highly adaptive against people with a mixed bag of powers as shown in his fight against Gentle, Bakugou, Overhaul, etc.

    He can figure out a persons skillset and method of fightiing in very brief exchanges in a manner that should put him either on or above Ed's level

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zu View Post
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    You using a movie for feats?
    its canon isn't it
    Last edited by Wi S. Kennedeh; 10-11-2018 at 12:52 AM.

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Cichy View Post
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    ?
    There's also nothing to suggest he started dodging before the bullet was fired.

    You didn't answer to this, meaning that you don't have any counterarguments, so you're just trying to point out something that doesn't have to do with anything at all.

    This scaling makes absolutely no sense.

    1. Greedling fighting Bradley can barely be called "holding his own". He could only do something because of other two people supporting him.
    2. Ed was only fucking up weakened and worned up father after the fight with the army and several alchemists. After that, father took down Greeling by distracting him with shockwave, NOT by outperforming him physically.

    As far as speed goes

    Bradley >>> Greeling >>>> Ed.

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    If you're talking about vs wikia calculations that I linked before then it was only calculating Deku dodging one bullet. Deku dodging series of bullets from two machine guns is easily comperable to Bradley's best feats of speed.

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    The movie is written by Horikoshi and 100% canon.
    ?? You're not disagreeing with me?

    I didn't answer to it because it's a dumb argument and I'm not about to take it seriously

    Not my fault if you're too dense to grasp simple scaling. It's not difficult. Your view of the differences in speed isn't at all the picture the series paints. And your tale of events is wrong. Greedling also fought Bradley by himself before the war and if he couldn't react to Bradley's movement speed he would get straight up blitzed by every single one of his much faster sword swings without any sort of reaction, yet that isn't the case. The father Ed beat up reacted to and countered a sneak attack from Greedling while when Father sneak attacked Greedling the latter was unable to counter. Pretty straight forward

    Nope again. Bradley is mach 14 while Deku's feat in it's entirety is still only supersonic. Why are you trusting vs wiki anyway? They have Ed at hypersonic, just like the obd

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wi S. Kennedeh View Post
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    It is, he smashes through debris and rubble comparable to Ed's constructs pretty casually, Deku can destabilize the ground around Ed with shockwaves too and there's a very high chance of Ed's automail being smashed apart if Deku lands a hit on it


    https://m.imgur.com/a/rISfy


    https://m.imgur.com/6OFUla6




    This is mid tier 8 percent Deku, the first is him at 5 percent

    Hell, even Greed is able to destroy them, but either way Ed isn't dependent on staying at long range and will engage Deku in CQC where he can be dominated

    It's made even more impressive because Deku has never encountered guns before, and I still consider dodging and deflecting heavy machine gun fire in a very narrow hallway to be better than a standard pistol

    That's a whole lot of scaling just for Ed to be hypersonic, I agree that Ed should be able to perceive Bradley but him being on his level or able to contend in a fight against him or something is untrue

    But even if he does have slightly better reactions, Deku has every other category including overwhelming agility/mobility. He might not be as durable as say, Greed, but he has better reflexes, endurance power and striking strength as well as mobility on top of being a far more skilled, strategic and tactical fighter

    He won't use blades lethally against people, which is what he'll resort to here, Deku isn't going to pulp him either but a few good body shots should be enough
    There's still ways for him to restrain or knock Midoriya out

    The only time Ed used deconstruction alchemy was when he showered Greed in debris by destroying his own construct, he can use it but he's no Scar lol, at most he'll use it on a artificial limb or some other non lethal way

    Even Ed's EoS constructs should be comparable to Overhaul's reassembly/disassembly in speed


    Him abusing alchemy to this extent is pretty OOC too, he was bloodlusted here and it leaves him wide open, at most he'll make some decent sized spikes and walls like in his fight with Greed and Scar


    Just look at the way Deku moves



    Midoriya was able to deduce what Stain's quirk was from just a few exchanges, at the start of their fight could dodge Stain's slashes and outmaneuver him at just 5 percent and land a clean smash on his head, not even going into how he moves between buildings with jumps, he demonstrated very impressive awareness and is highly adaptive against people with a mixed bag of powers as shown in his fight against Gentle, Bakugou, Overhaul, etc.

    He can figure out a persons skillset and method of fightiing in very brief exchanges in a manner that should put him either on or above Ed's level

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    its canon isn't it
    Mustang's first construct after seeing the gate could block his own flame alchemy which is at least mcb level. Deku is not casually mcb

    Why are you comparing early series Ed's constructs to his EoS self's? Makes no sense

    Only a small part of the scaling had anything to do with Ed. Was explaining the scaling of a bunch of characters.The two feats are both close and both are supersonic

    No. You're overestimating Deku and downplaying fma

    I'm not interested in discussing a nerfed Ed vs Deku thread

    He's no Scar at it? He literally used it to cancel out Scar's own deconstruction alchemy lol.

    Overhaul is supersonic while Ed is hypersonic, so no

    You really like MHA. Anyways; a bloodlusted Ed is beating Deku more times than not. An Ed who has to hold back from going all out probably loses

  15. #35
    Hmmm

    Thought that was 100% Deku dodging the machine gunfire thanks to his red armor sleeve thing? 8% Deku shouldn't be anything past supersonic, hypersonic while at 100%.
    Last edited by Zu; 10-11-2018 at 02:01 AM.
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  16. #36
    baste Hunterchad/Jobro Wi S. Kennedeh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
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    ?? You're not disagreeing with me?

    I didn't answer to it because it's a dumb argument and I'm not about to take it seriously

    Not my fault if you're too dense to grasp simple scaling. It's not difficult. Your view of the differences in speed isn't at all the picture the series paints. And your tale of events is wrong. Greedling also fought Bradley by himself before the war and if he couldn't react to Bradley's movement speed he would get straight up blitzed by every single one of his much faster sword swings without any sort of reaction, yet that isn't the case. The father Ed beat up reacted to and countered a sneak attack from Greedling while when Father sneak attacked Greedling the latter was unable to counter. Pretty straight forward

    Nope again. Bradley is mach 14 while Deku's feat in it's entirety is still only supersonic. Why are you trusting vs wiki anyway? They have Ed at hypersonic, just like the obd

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    Mustang's first construct after seeing the gate could block his own flame alchemy which is at least mcb level. Deku is not casually mcb

    Why are you comparing early series Ed's constructs to his EoS self's? Makes no sense

    Only a small part of the scaling had anything to do with Ed. Was explaining the scaling of a bunch of characters.The two feats are both close and both are supersonic

    No. You're overestimating Deku and downplaying fma

    I'm not interested in discussing a nerfed Ed vs Deku thread

    He's no Scar at it? He literally used it to cancel out Scar's own deconstruction alchemy lol.

    Overhaul is supersonic while Ed is hypersonic, so no

    You really like MHA. Anyways; a bloodlusted Ed is beating Deku more times than not. An Ed who has to hold back from going all out probably loses
    mcb without a philosopher stone sounds reeeaaally iffy for Roy, unless his flame alchemy improved too, I'd need multiple consensus's for this

    Does the durability of early Ed's constructs increase dramatically by EoS? They still have knowledge of the gate and they're still made out of the usual concrete/stone/metal from surrounding infrastructure right? Greed doing it should mean Deku could do it, and even if he couldn't, there's always the overwhelming mobility/agility to help work around them


    I'm saying it's an extensive amount of scaling from other chars just to say Ed can perceive wrath/is comparable to Greedling, but sure, a speed advantage doesn't bridge the gap in nearly every other area though

    Even if they're both supersonic, Deku's should still be significantly more impressive, looking closely he's clearly dodging the bullets as they're traveling towards him, in one of the frames we see the bullet traveling directly at him, in the next he's moved and that same bullet is at the end of the hallway, the average bullet travels at around 2,500 feet per second
    at the same time though, there's an argument for it just being high end aim dodging

    How

    But he's not??

    Any competent alchemist should be capable of that? it's literally just stopping alchemy halfway, and I meant that he's not going to be grabbing people by the face and making them explode when his only use of it in the entire series is creating shrapnel


    Deku takes smarts then

    So the usual Ed who doesn't shred kids?
    A bloodlusted Ed is Ed at his weakest here, raw alchemical constructs with no strategical thought behind them can be dealt with no problem

    An Ed with his head in the game can use the environment to his advantage and such

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zu View Post
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    Hmmm

    Thought that was 100% Deku dodging the machine gunfire thanks to his red armor sleeve thing? 8% Deku shouldn't be anything past supersonic, hypersonic while at 100%.
    first time hearing of this

    to my knowledge it takes place at 8 percent Deku

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
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    ?? You're not disagreeing with me?

    I didn't answer to it because it's a dumb argument and I'm not about to take it seriously
    No, I don't. You use flawed scaling and comedic scenes as legit arguments.

    If we play like this then I can put an imige of Ed not being able to react to Alexanders "attack" and say his reaction speed is slower then that of an avarage dog.


    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
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    Not my fault if you're too dense to grasp simple scaling. It's not difficult. Your view of the differences in speed isn't at all the picture the series paints. And your tale of events is wrong. Greedling also fought Bradley by himself before the war and if he couldn't react to Bradley's movement speed he would get straight up blitzed by every single one of his much faster sword swings without any sort of reaction, yet that isn't the case. The father Ed beat up reacted to and countered a sneak attack from Greedling while when Father sneak attacked Greedling the latter was unable to counter. Pretty straight forward
    Either you mixed the timeline or you're trying to twist the facts to suit your agenda. The father anticipated Greeds attack before the "god" inside him wen't berserk. The timeline goes like this

    1. The father easily anticipates everyone's attacks, including Eds and Greeds.
    2. He startes to loose control resulting in him geting weakened.
    3. Alphonse sacrefices himself for the sake of victory.
    4. Ed is able to lay some attacks on weakened father.
    5. The father in a desparate move distracts Greeling with a shockwave and pulls out his power.
    6. Greeds "rebelion" from the inside and father geting destroyed.

    Quote Originally Posted by Rave View Post
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    Nope again. Bradley is mach 14 while Deku's feat in it's entirety is still only supersonic. Why are you trusting vs wiki anyway? They have Ed at hypersonic, just like the obd
    Deku was dodging those bullets while being in mid air. Basically it's even harder then what Bradley did at the rooftop (dodging couple of bullets while being on the ground). And it wasn't even his full speed, since he was only using 5%. At 8% he's significantly faster (Bakugou stated that Izuku is several levels faster than before) and for a short period of time he can go to 20%, essencially making him four times faster then the one in the movie. Then there's the fact that he can match/beat the speed of Ida's recipro burst which depending on calculations can vary from mach 13 to mach 58.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zu View Post
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    Hmmm

    Thought that was 100% Deku dodging the machine gunfire thanks to his red armor sleeve thing? 8% Deku shouldn't be anything past supersonic, hypersonic while at 100%.
    The gauntlet only allowed him to punch at 100%. The full cowling was only him using 5%.
    Last edited by Cichy; 10-11-2018 at 11:25 AM.

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