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  1. #1
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    Hi Shin Unit vs Kan Ki's Vassals

    raido, koku'ou, ma ron, rin gyoku, and zen ou

    vs

    the hi shin unit

    both sides get 15k

    location: shukai plains

    who wins
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  2. #2
    all of them at once in a 15k battle is too much lol

    Kankis vassals

  3. #3
    Zenou vs Shin & Hi Hyou cavalry
    Raido vs Kyoukai & her men
    Ringyoku vs Naki's unit
    Ten should be able to manage the last 2 with the help of Sosui, Denyu's cavalry and Suugen's infantry. And if it's too much she can ask the archer boy to snipe Kokuou.

    Once Shin kills Zenou and the Hi Hyou swipe the Zenou clan away, the battle should be over or pretty much.

    I'm voting for HSU.

    But it's only because of the small number. Make it a real battle with 50k soldiers and I would probably give the victory to Kanki's army.
    Last edited by Whysoserious; 10-04-2018 at 12:53 AM.

  4. #4
    I'll give it to Kanki's vassals

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  5. #5
    Blue Thunderclap Nightfall's Avatar
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    Hi Shin Unit with Shin, Kyoukai, and Ten?



    am i missing something here??

  6. #6
    Well, if it small number, HSU actually could pull a win. What most terrifying about Kanki army is Kanki's unorthodox tactics. Shin, Kyoukai, and Ten, all of them will be able to comand 5k army alone.
    If we assume the battle will be a showdown of 15k Vs 15k without wings, then it goes:
    Kanki HQ: Maron + Kokuou
    Offense: Zenou, Raido, Ringyoku
    VS
    HSU HQ: Ten + Jin, Tan
    Offense: Shin, Kyoukai, Naki

    In term of inteligent, Tes is not weaker than Maron. While HSU strength is better than Kanki's Vassals. Jin and Tan, like what already shown will be able to support defensive wise from HQ area. The most trouble some would be Zenou, well Shin will slay him nonetheless.
    Last edited by Great General; 10-04-2018 at 04:38 AM.

  7. #7
    In our point of view, yes. In the kingdom point of view, clearly no.

    I mean Sosui (81/83/85/B) has only one point difference to the stats of Kokuou (82/83/85/B)

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Naki View Post
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    In our point of view, yes. In the kingdom point of view, clearly no.

    I mean Sosui (81/83/85/B) has only one point difference to the stats of Kokuou (82/83/85/B)
    Well, beside stats you also should look to their military rank. Kokuou is 5k commander, means she is experienced on leading 5k army, while Sosui only experience on leading 1k army (maybe). If we stretch their capability, maybe Kokuou will be able to command 10k army, while Sosui only able to command 3k army.
    If we going with stats, 1k Kakubi Unit vs 1k Kokuou Unit, whoever the winner be, it is will be extreme diff. But if it 10k Vs 10k, it will be easy win for Kokuou.
    Last edited by Great General; 10-04-2018 at 11:19 AM.

  9. #9
    Logically the HSU should match up, bit idk they never seem to be the sum of their parts, Gyouun had no one signficant so by KP logic it should have been a rape on an unprecedented scale but the HSU barely managed a draw with 2 GG moments

    I doubt Gyouun could have beaten Kanki's entire sub team at once.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenma View Post
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    Logically the HSU should match up, bit idk they never seem to be the sum of their parts, Gyouun had no one signficant so by KP logic it should have been a rape on an unprecedented scale but the HSU barely managed a draw with 2 GG moments

    I doubt Gyouun could have beaten Kanki's entire sub team at once.
    Well, the most important reason HSU barely manage to stop Gyouun, because he is instinctual general. Ten actually the heart of every strategy before this battle. And Ten ability as strategies pretty useles facing Gyouun's instinct, and her blunder left and right make HSU hard pressed.

    I think Gyouun will be able to beat Kanki's entire sub, if it 10k vs 10k.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Great General View Post
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    Well, the most important reason HSU barely manage to stop Gyouun, because he is instinctual general. Ten actually the heart of every strategy before this battle. And Ten ability as strategies pretty useles facing Gyouun's instinct, and her blunder left and right make HSU hard pressed.

    I think Gyouun will be able to beat Kanki's entire sub, if it 10k vs 10k.
    Never in hell will Gyouun beat all of Kankis subs with 10k...

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Great General View Post
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    Well, the most important reason HSU barely manage to stop Gyouun, because he is instinctual general. Ten actually the heart of every strategy before this battle. And Ten ability as strategies pretty useles facing Gyouun's instinct, and her blunder left and right make HSU hard pressed.

    I think Gyouun will be able to beat Kanki's entire sub, if it 10k vs 10k.
    Gyouun's tactical advantage was negated when Shin took charge, so Gyouun's fodder army had to deal with kyoukai+ten+naki+sosui+garo etc etc, lets face it normally when accessing such odds most would feel Gyouun gets eviscerated

    I don't see that happening at all, Kanki's army is not depicted at a scrub level where they'd get soloed by 1 vassal vs 5

  13. #13
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenma View Post
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    Logically the HSU should match up, bit idk they never seem to be the sum of their parts, Gyouun had no one signficant so by KP logic it should have been a rape on an unprecedented scale but the HSU barely managed a draw with 2 GG moments

    I doubt Gyouun could have beaten Kanki's entire sub team at once.
    speaks more on the calibre of opponent gyou'un was tbf. doubt anyone would argue the hsu should logically beat tou due to the sum of their parts.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenma View Post
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    Gyouun's tactical advantage was negated when Shin took charge
    wouldn't be accurate to say his tactical advantage was negated. he was still making the superior moves by a sizeable margin.
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  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenma View Post
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    Gyouun's tactical advantage was negated when Shin took charge, so Gyouun's fodder army had to deal with kyoukai+ten+naki+sosui+garo etc etc, lets face it normally when accessing such odds most would feel Gyouun gets eviscerated

    I don't see that happening at all, Kanki's army is not depicted at a scrub level where they'd get soloed by 1 vassal vs 5
    Nah, Gyouun army is not scub at all, they have many elite units. Even Garo (86) was hard pressed fighting Gyuun army. Commander number actually give less advantage if the troop is small. If it 30k Vs 30k the Kanki subs will have clear advantage. Because Raido, Maron, and Kokuou will be able to command 10k each, while Gyouun didnt have a vassals shown able to command 10k troops on their lvl.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
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    speaks more on the calibre of opponent gyou'un was tbf. doubt anyone would argue the hsu should logically beat tou due to the sum of their parts.



    wouldn't be accurate to say his tactical advantage was negated. he was still making the superior moves by a sizeable margin.
    True.

  15. #15
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tenma View Post
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    Logically the HSU should match up, bit idk they never seem to be the sum of their parts, Gyouun had no one signficant so by KP logic it should have been a rape on an unprecedented scale but the HSU barely managed a draw with 2 GG moments

    I doubt Gyouun could have beaten Kanki's entire sub team at once.
    honestly don't see why it's more reasonable to automatically assume the hsu's fight with gyou'un is in conflict with this logic, as opposed to acknowledging that gyou'un may just be more dangerous than you initially perceived him to be.

    all of that should be to the gyou'un armies merit rather than an outright inconsistency in logic.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Naki View Post
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    Never in hell will Gyouun beat all of Kankis subs with 10k...
    Nah he can. If he can stop Kyoukai, he can stop Raido while he duel Zenou.

  17. #17
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Kanki's vassals.

    - - - Updated - - -

    No one is beating all of Kanki's vassals on a scale this small unless they are at least a high tier GG.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Great General View Post
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    Nah he can. If he can stop Kyoukai, he can stop Raido while he duel Zenou.
    Gakuei could stop Kyoukai, whats that worth at all

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
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    speaks more on the calibre of opponent gyou'un was tbf. doubt anyone would argue the hsu should logically beat tou due to the sum of their parts.



    wouldn't be accurate to say his tactical advantage was negated. he was still making the superior moves by a sizeable margin.
    At the end he had just 2000 more men that he could through at that fire

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
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    speaks more on the calibre of opponent gyou'un was tbf. doubt anyone would argue the hsu should logically beat tou due to the sum of their parts.



    wouldn't be accurate to say his tactical advantage was negated. he was still making the superior moves by a sizeable margin.
    I don't doubt Gyouun's calibre, or even his victory, but given all 3 of the HSU's leaders are supposed to be close to HK level him winning without subs of a corresponding or even notable level flies in the face of how we often evaluate matchups here.

  20. #20
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    worth noting the scale of the battle kinda limited the range of their functionality. ten was more of a negative than a positive when she was strategizing against gyou'un, and when shin took over she became a complete non-factor because of how the battle developed from there.

    maybe the impact of the quality of subs would've been more apparent if there were more troops, and they were able to divide command. for instance, ten would've been able to do more than just gawk at the fire.

    but with these numbers it was essentially a 1 v 1 with the rest acting as appendages. in other words, shin's allies were only capable of as much as his tactics would allow. which may be why it seemed like their performance wasn't a sum of their abilities. they weren't able to act as independently as they probably could've in other scenarios.

    until kyou kai came up with this improbable strategy that allowed her to force a draw while gyou'un was preoccupied, at least.
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