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  1. #1
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    (Spoiler Thread) Wei

    historically qin only has 2 more invasive interactions with wei in their campaign for unification, one of which isn't even a war.

    Year 16, 231BC

    • Wei offered land to Qin. Qin set up Li county(丽邑).
    Year 22, 225BC

    • Ouhon attacked Wei, redirecting the waters from the yellow river to flood Daliang, the capital of Wei. The king of Wei surrendered and Qin annexed the lands of Wei.
    furthermore, shin doesn't even participate in the battle that results in wei's total capitulation.

    in lieu of that information, how do you expect hara to handle shin's relationship with gai mou? would gai mou still pose a credible threat to shin even 11 years from where the story is currently at? will their fight even take place?

    what overall expectations do you now have for the one big battle that decides the fate of wei?
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  2. #2
    Well this is assuming the Wei/Chu/Qin alliance thing (or some variation) doesn't go down.

    Gaimou will always be a huge threat to Shin if the two of them are in a duel. Shin's willingness to make it a duel will mean it's not unrealistic that Junsou can help create a situation to facilitate that.

    I think we're going to see two huge long term enemies in Zhao and Chu who will have all have a lot of build up and back & forth battles whilst all the others will be far more straight forward. Qin will go in and win with one major battle so I don't think Gaimou/Shin will have any more layers of depth than it already has, unfortunately.

  3. #3
    The redirecting yellow river sounds epic...

    Gaimou since his introduction only was a threat martial wise, as a general he is not important. I see him as a stepping stone in the way to defeat Houken, not anything more.

  4. #4
    I mean, its not like Hara can't just attach Shin to any campaign he wants (basically the entire series up till the Yan campaign). Judging by the description this will be Ouhon's big CiC moment but Shin will still get his duel with Gaimou.

  5. #5
    Dem, if the spoilers are true GHM is really a bitch to Ouhon since FD arc.

  6. #6
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Well this is assuming the Wei/Chu/Qin alliance thing (or some variation) doesn't go down.
    wei/qin alliance vs chu

    i was only referring to "invasive" or hostile interactions. i didn't include that one because qin doesn't play an antagonistic role against wei in it.
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  7. #7
    Where you got this info?

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Naki View Post
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    The redirecting yellow river sounds epic...

    Gaimou since his introduction only was a threat martial wise, as a general he is not important. I see him as a stepping stone in the way to defeat Houken, not anything more.
    Zhao will actually go down before Wei. Zhao remnants go on to form a mini-state (Dai) where he could move to but I'll be surprised because this would be after Qin have crushed most of the state + Riboku is no more.

    If Houken was a completely fictional character I would have expected him to be final villain when he's independent of any state.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Zhao will actually go down before Wei. Zhao remnants go on to form a mini-state (Dai) where he could move to but I'll be surprised because this would be after Qin have crushed most of the state + Riboku is no more.

    If Houken was a completely fictional character I would have expected him to be final villain when he's independent of any state.
    Which year is that? And is one of those events with Wei before that? I mean there is not really any other purpose for Gaimou than martialy. Same goes for Houken, even more if we consider his importance... Shin needs to defeat him fair in a 1on1. I mean story wise it wouldnt be a problem for him just to disappear after the Zhao defeat and come back as just the fighter he is...

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Naki View Post
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    Which year is that? And is one of those events with Wei before that? I mean there is not really any other purpose for Gaimou than martialy. Same goes for Houken, even more if we consider his importance... Shin needs to defeat him fair in a 1on1.
    zhao's defeat, and the formation of dai both happen in the year 228 b.c.

    the only war qin has against wei happens in 225 b.c.

    I mean story wise it wouldnt be a problem for him just to disappear after the Zhao defeat and come back as just the fighter he is...
    agree with this, kinda

    hou ken never really had any affiliation to begin with in the manga

    however, it'd be kinda hard to imagine him surviving past zhao's defeat considering how strongly he's been associated with the state throughout the series. not to mention, he doesn't have much worth anymore as it is.
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  11. #11
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    Dude put 'Historical Spoilers' in thread name.
    I thought this is about chapter spoilers and chapter somehow takes place in Wei.

  12. #12
    Saint of Killers Perun's Avatar
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    I always wonder why didn't Hara make Wei fall first,given that he off paneled 3 FDs.I still don't understand why he had to do them dirty like that.

  13. #13
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    Year 22, 225BC

    • Ouhon attacked Wei, redirecting the waters from the yellow river to flood Daliang, the capital of Wei. The king of Wei surrendered and Qin annexed the lands of Wei.
    Wang Ben came up with the idea of directing the waters from the Yellow River and the Hong Canal to flood Daliang. Wang Ben's troops worked for three months to redirect the water flow while maintaining the siege on Daliang, and succeeded in their plan. Daliang was heavily flooded and over 100,000 people died, including civilians.
    how do you guys feel shin will react to this when the time comes since this move of ou hon's ended up killing a lot of innocent civilians?
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  14. #14
    Hara may skip that part. If not, I'm sure Shin will react angrily but I assume Ouhon's tactic will be what turns the war around when it was on the verge of defeat, so Shin may not have a choice but to accept it as being a good move.

    That being said, god knows how Wei can put up a fight as things stand with only GHM and Gaimou. Especially as by this point Zhao and Han won't be a factor so Qin will surely send 3 or 4 GGs.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Hara may skip that part. If not, I'm sure Shin will react angrily but I assume Ouhon's tactic will be what turns the war around when it was on the verge of defeat, so Shin may not have a choice but to accept it as being a good move.

    That being said, god knows how Wei can put up a fight as things stand with only GHM and Gaimou. Especially as by this point Zhao and Han won't be a factor so Qin will surely send 3 or 4 GGs.
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Hara may skip that part. If not, I'm sure Shin will react angrily but I assume Ouhon's tactic will be what turns the war around when it was on the verge of defeat, so Shin may not have a choice but to accept it as being a good move.

    That being said, god knows how Wei can put up a fight as things stand with only GHM and Gaimou. Especially as by this point Zhao and Han won't be a factor so Qin will surely send 3 or 4 GGs.
    "God Bow" Bashuri was teased and is at the moment retired, but if the state is at the door of destruction...

    Earl Shi was wasted potential compared with Gaimou... kill Gaimou of and let Earl Shi for future arcs as a real stepping stone for Ouhon...

  17. #17
    I guess Bashuri could be a complete general who just happened to use a bow-user. You'd need a reason for him not being a Fire Dragon though since anything below that level isn't gonna cut it. That, plus a new gen general like GHM's younger brother or something and I guess we'll be ok :/

  18. #18
    Pretty Flacko Jr. bootleg boy's Avatar
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    we still have several years before qin fights wei again historically, so there's a lot of time for their military to grow. doesn't need to be some hidden beast that should've been around this whole time. plenty of room for new seeds.
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  19. #19
    Well i doubt they ever again can muster an army as stacked as the one in the fire dragon arc, though they still dont have that bad a military at the moment anyway

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Naki View Post
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    Earl Shi was wasted potential compared with Gaimou... kill Gaimou of and let Earl Shi for future arcs as a real stepping stone for Ouhon...
    Nah, I think GaiMou should be reserved for when Shin becomes a member of Qin6.

    With that said, I agree that Earl Shi was taken out too soon. He should have been OuHon's opponent in 225 BC campaign.

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