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  1. #21
    Knight of Romance Heart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    I don't think you can give him a mid 90 on the basis that he trapped Yotanwa. Not yet anyway. He might be if he shows more, who knows, but I could also see him be a low 90. He's a prodigy it seems so may well grow to that level, but bare in mind Mouten is what, 90? But with his potential I'm sure he could think of a plan to surprise even top tiers today.

    I'd probably put him at 92 right now if I had to give him something.
    yeah i agree he's clearly 90+ but shouldn't be any higher than 93 tops so far, 95+ is like getting into best strategist of the State levels

    - - - Updated - - -

    also mouten was 91 last time stats got released, might be higher the next time we see stats considering this arc is meant to be pivotal for the qin trio and he had a GG moment

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Heart View Post
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    yeah i agree he's clearly 90+ but shouldn't be any higher than 93 tops so far, 95+ is like getting into best strategist of the State levels

    - - - Updated - - -

    also mouten was 91 last time stats got released, might be higher the next time we see stats considering this arc is meant to be pivotal for the qin trio and he had a GG moment
    Well the section mod said he is Top 10...

    OF ALL CHINA

  3. #23
    Knight of Romance Heart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascot View Post
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    Well the section mod said he is Top 10...

    OF ALL CHINA

  4. #24
    Teacher's Pet Void's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ascot View Post
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    Triple 90+ are GGs themselves

    ssj is hk tier, and none of them have triple 90+

    85
    88
    93

    He is like a reversed bananji
    this looks reasonable

    honestly I still don't value him much cuz he's always hiding behind people while being smug with "muh foresight" but I can see him being around Ryuutou's tier (int wise anyways), which is still good as a vassal

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  5. #25
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    theatrical sense 100


  6. #26
    Pretty Flacko Jr. Tokio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    I don't think you can give him a mid 90 on the basis that he trapped Yotanwa. Not yet anyway. He might be if he shows more, who knows, but I could also see him be a low 90. He's a prodigy it seems so may well grow to that level, but bare in mind Mouten is what, 90? But with his potential I'm sure he could think of a plan to surprise even top tiers today.

    I'd probably put him at 92 right now if I had to give him something.
    the entire day went exactly as he predicted. he completely read the actions of a 96 int character before the battle even began.

    you guys can be a bit too reserved sometimes.
    トキオ Love.$ex.Dreams

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
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    the entire day went exactly as he predicted. he completely read the actions of a 96 int character before the battle even began.

    you guys can be a bit too reserved sometimes.
    Sure, but there are some circumstances that effect that and we don't know what Yotanwa has planned herself (numbers, food situation etc). It's not like a 92 can never gain an upper hand on someone smarter. Would you be too surprised if Mouten (91) managed to read Genbou in the current arc?

    95 onward and you're talking as if he's Reiou tier. He's likely 3-4 points away from his peak as well, meaning we would be talking about a guy on some RSJ/Karin tier when he's in his prime and I'm yet to see that much hype from him. His introduction with Bananji makes me think that is where his level is right now overall.

    I actually hope you're right though. Zhao need more major players.

  8. #28
    Str: 88
    Ldr: 87
    Int: 94

  9. #29
    Pretty Flacko Jr. Tokio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    It's not like a 92 can never gain an upper hand on someone smarter. Would you be too surprised if Mouten (91) managed to read Genbou in the current arc?
    sure, but there's a substantial difference between gaining an upper hand during an engagement and the level of foresight needed to predict the flow of the entire battle before any fighting has started.

    the food situation may have provoked a response from ytw, but not this specific course of action. goes back to that argument you were having with spiro in the chapter discussion.

    i'm sure ytw has something else in store that goes beyond even ssj's predictions so i'm hesitant to put him on her level myself, but outplaying ytw to this extent should certainly warrant higher than a 92 or 93 int.

    while i agree characters like mou ten could outplay smarter characters in certain circumstances, i don't believe people at his level have a level of foresight that runs this deep.

    95 onward and you're talking as if he's Reiou tier. He's likely 3-4 points away from his peak as well, meaning we would be talking about a guy on some RSJ/Karin tier when he's in his prime and I'm yet to see that much hype from him. His introduction with Bananji makes me think that is where his level is right now overall.

    I actually hope you're right though. Zhao need more major players.
    when we have vassals like gen bou in the story i don't think it's too unreasonable. personally, i think he's a character who's already reached his prime, or is at least near it.
    トキオ Love.$ex.Dreams

  10. #30
    Ssj has pretty great foresight. He saw through ousen’s food ploy too

  11. #31
    Probably something like:
    86
    88
    94
    Mouten now is at least 92 int tho

  12. #32
    str:85 ssj had a portion of 1000 elites when he went through the battlefield.
    ldr:92
    int:95
    Last edited by Akroor; 07-11-2018 at 02:53 PM.

  13. #33
    84
    87
    93
    Last edited by Great General; 07-11-2018 at 10:55 PM.

  14. #34
    Dai Don Dedede's Avatar
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    He didn't necessarily predict everything with some inhuman acumen since before the battle started, he Simply baited her into doing this. This is still seemingly the best possible move at this point from Yotanwa as she really has to kill Goba today, by having him fight a conservative battle and feint a retreat when the sun sets he could anticipate Yotanwa moving in to make sure to claim his head and stand ready to attack her at that moment.
    He still gets props for doing that but that's not on the level of foresight shown by people like Ousen or Renpa.

    I'd give him:
    80-85
    80-85
    92-93

  15. #35
    Pretty Flacko Jr. Tokio's Avatar
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    all in all, this whole scenario is really no different than how ren pa saw through ou sen's plan to corner kyou en in the wei di.
    トキオ Love.$ex.Dreams

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
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    all in all, this whole scenario is really no different than how ren pa saw through ou sen's plan to corner kyou en in the wei di.
    At this point it will be decisive how things play out, it can also just be Kyouen fucking over Heki.

  17. #37
    King of Connect 4 DoflaMihawk's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
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    all in all, this whole scenario is really no different than how ren pa saw through ou sen's plan to corner kyou en in the wei di.
    And their knowledge stats are nearly the same so

  18. #38
    Juan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
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    all in all, this whole scenario is really no different than how ren pa saw through ou sen's plan to corner kyou en in the wei di.
    i thought go ba's dialogue was a reference to kyou en's tbh

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
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    the entire day went exactly as he predicted. he completely read the actions of a 96 int character before the battle even began.

    you guys can be a bit too reserved sometimes.

    The thing is that everyone believes that at the end Yotanwa is gonna own his ass, so Yotanwa is gonna beat him with a huge disadventage

  20. #40
    Dai Don Dedede's Avatar
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    All in all, it is very different from what Renpa did. Ousen had given no hint of what he was going to do, he had been feinting retreat to be perceived as being on the backfoot since the beginning, then he even had Heki act as if he was trying to capitalize on Kyouen growing to confident with the Wei Di. He had nothing that forced him to do this, and nobody had any information about him, yet Renpa managed to see through his initial feint, predict where Kyouen would be led and anticipate that all of that would only be a bait to take Kyou En out.

    Shun Sui Ju knows the mountain people war style, he knows Yotanwa has to win today and knows that the Qin tribes have realized how important Goba is. Reacting to that he sent out more men today, and anticipated that Yotanwa would move out when she saw that Goba was about to escape, allowing him to lie in wait in order to pounce on this occasion. He didn't perfectly read an opponent he had no idea about, he just reacted in a (quasi? depending on next chapters) perfect way to something that he could reasonably expect given the events that had transpired thus far. The only thing that could really be classified as foresight on his part is that Yotanwa would wait until this exact day to commit fully, though there too it might be explained by him being able to estimate how much food they had, and having the Quanrong fight Yotanwa's army so as to be able to expect when they would grow confident enough to commit to an all out attack.
    It remains very impressive notheless, but that's not the same as deciphering the entire course of action of a top tier strategist based on a very limited amount of information like what Renpa did in Sanyou or Ousen seemingly did at Kankoku Pass. It's basically the same as saying Ryuutou had great foresight in knowing that the HSU would attack the hill next to them if they appeared to have captured him, he acted in a way that forced his opponent to make a move that he could use, capitalizing on a previously established advantage.

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