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  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by DreX View Post
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    what the actual fuck ...

    If it was that hard for Riboku to hold Ouki with one of ten bows and Kashbikou plus Shin, with an advantageous positioning, for a short while until GHM fortifies the hill, then I've never had a one-millionth chance of winning with my commanders from the very start.

    How easy it is to deal with a zenou ambush do you think? how fast will it be?! and how strong will Moubu will be afterwards?! Actually how fast will he cross two bridges, deal with an archery unit over the river, deal with a zeno ambush, to reach the eastern island?!
    You're right, i guess i give too little credit for GHM and Riboku with that sentence. With the hill in their side defending should be easier task for Riboku side, but honestly i still see Moubu's reinforcement being the decisive factor.

    Moubu has more man 3:1 advantage. And from what i see in the clauses, Moubu will start a bit later after the majority of the fight enter the island battle so Zenou will need to ambush Moubu when there's no one who's making himself busy in the front.

  2. #122
    Banned DreX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    You're right, i guess i give too little credit for GHM and Riboku with that sentence. With the hill in their side defending should be easier task for Riboku side, but honestly i still see Moubu's reinforcement being the decisive factor.

    Moubu has more man 3:1 advantage. And from what i see in the clauses, Moubu will start a bit later after the majority of the fight enter the island battle so Zenou will need to ambush Moubu when there's no one who's making himself busy in the front.
    I see too many inaccuracies that i don't know how to approach you.

    First of all, Moubu coming late is working to my advantage because GHM would have more time for fortification, hence more attention would be given for defence.

    Having to pass through two small bridges defended by archers / Riboku is the devastating factor here. What's more devastating is that Moubu would be ambushed by the Zeno clan with 1/3 his original numbers, when he's at the front lines crossing/preparing to cross a bottleneck potentially rained by arrows. My strategy implies so. Zeno is instructed to inflict as much damage as he can without really aiming for Moubu who'll be too late getting back.

    You've seen how a bunny force like the early HSU could inflict extraordinary damage to Fuki's commandless forces, and again with Mangouko who's men are incomparably weaker than the Duke's. yet it's the power of taking the enemy on a surprise. Needless to mention, it's zeno we're talking about, if 1 beast os supposed to kill 3 thunderstruck commandless men, it's not too far-fetched. Moubu army would be running for their lives before thinking of enforcing anyone.

    And my only aim here to buy time, I'd gain an advantageous stalemate once i merely fortified the hill held by a commander of GHM's calliper.

  3. #123
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    *insert Stop! He's already dead! meme*



  4. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreX View Post
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    You've seen how a bunny force like the early HSU could inflict extraordinary damage to Fuki's commandless forces, and again with Mangouko who's men are incomparably weaker than the Duke's
    you keep on neglecting mou ten's presence

    your archer forces are also too small to pull off this pincer adequately

    the hsu's force didn't even inflict "extraordinary damage" to fuu ki's
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  5. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
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    you keep on neglecting mou ten's presence

    your archer forces are also too small to pull off this pincer adequately

    the hsu's force didn't even inflict "extraordinary damage" to fuu ki's
    shut up. enough.

    just vote crispy and go on your way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispickle View Post
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    *insert Stop! He's already dead! meme*


    I was unexpectedly a bit worked up there, indeed. Well, even with me having the weaker team, people continue to give the other side every benefit of a doubt.

    I find that a bit much for a lil game out of your fantasy, though... So until you edit the idiotic tier list and this whole brute force over strategy wanking stops, I don't think I'll ever have the willingness to sign up for another game. I'll still vote and discuss, but i don't wanna deal with idiots playing preferences for now.
    Last edited by DreX; 07-14-2018 at 11:25 AM.

  6. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreX View Post
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    and this whole brute force over strategy wanking stops
    while i agree this tends to be a thing i also heavily disagree with, it's not really what's happening here lol
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  7. #127
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    I'll have to give this one to [Crispy].

    Crispy's vanguard will hit Riboku and before Ouki joins, Drex has an advantage. As soon as Ouki's army joins, it turns into a 120k vs 100k in Crispy's favour, which I have no doubt Riboku would manage just fine defending (given that it's not a plains battle, but rather narrow passages). So what we're looking at here is a very slow grind from both sides which will last a very long time.

    On the other side we have Moubu and Mouten with their 30k against Zenou's 10k and 4k archers. At some point, Moubu and Mouten will he heading to flank Riboku and that's gonna upset the balance of the otherwise slow 120k vs 100k grind.

    I'm afraid that the only mistake Drex did here was not allow Riboku to pull back into GHM's fort, or GHM to ride out and help Riboku. Had either of these been an option, Drex would have most likely won.

  8. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    I'll have to give this one to [Crispy].

    Crispy's vanguard will hit Riboku and before Ouki joins, Drex has an advantage. As soon as Ouki's army joins, it turns into a 120k vs 100k in Crispy's favour, which I have no doubt Riboku would manage just fine defending (given that it's not a plains battle, but rather narrow passages). So what we're looking at here is a very slow grind from both sides which will last a very long time.

    On the other side we have Moubu and Mouten with their 30k against Zenou's 10k and 4k archers. At some point, Moubu and Mouten will he heading to flank Riboku and that's gonna upset the balance of the otherwise slow 120k vs 100k grind.

    I'm afraid that the only mistake Drex did here was not allow Riboku to pull back into GHM's fort, or GHM to ride out and help Riboku. Had either of these been an option, Drex would have most likely won.
    that's easily implied in my strat though. And naturally, is the case. Each one has the priority of defence and capturing, but i believe it would be summed up even before Moubu reaches for backup.

    RBK and GHM aren't that much of a fools.
    Last edited by DreX; 07-14-2018 at 12:00 PM.

  9. #129
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreX View Post
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    that's easily implied in my strat though, and naturally is the case. And naturally, is the case. Each one has the priority of defense and capturing, but i believe it would be summed up even before Moubu reaches for backup.
    I'm afraid I'm not seeing it. Can you point to where exactly?

  10. #130
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    I'm afraid I'm not seeing it. Can you point to where exactly?
    I instructed Riboku a couple of times 'hold until GHM finishes fortification' but what comes after fortifying the hill is not dying in vain, is it? i think it's using the hill as a defensive zone to gain an advantage stalemate, and that's very natural.

    RBK and GHM are top tier strategies, man.

    Plus it's enough when i say.
    " They will fight in coordination and work together to give GHM enough time for fortifying the hill. "
    Last edited by DreX; 07-14-2018 at 12:28 PM.

  11. #131
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreX View Post
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    I instructed Riboku a couple of times 'hold until GHM finishes fortification' but what comes after fortifying the hill is not dying in vain, is it? i think it's using the hill as a defensive zone to gain an advantage stalemate, and that's very natural.

    RBK and GHM are top tier strategies, man.

    Plus it's enough when i say.
    " They will fight in coordination and work together to give GHM enough time for fortifying the hill. "
    I get what you're saying, but Riboku holding the front while GHM fortifies is already cooperation. You also have:

    As for my main army, it split into two as soon as they cross the river to the eastern island, GHM will head straight up the hill and capture it with 36,000 men while Riboku and the rest will block the incoming forces from the Northern island aiming for the hill - and that's his top priority -


    If we take a look at their clauses though, which you should know are considered word of god in CyK:

    Riboku:
    * Plan out tactics to defend the hill dissolve Ouki and/or Moubu's respective armies and contain them for as long as possible.

    GHM:
    * Simply capture his hill, and might even detach his army or use any of his inventions to do so & hold the enemies from interrupting him.

    Not only do the clauses not imply Riboku going uphill or GHM descending it, Riboku is actually told to hold his position for as long as possible. I'm afraid that having Riboku go uphill or GHM descend would be going directly against the clauses, and no matter how good Riboku and GHM may be, that's against the rules of the game.

    If we allow this, next time someone could go "well year sure I told the Duke to charge, but obviously he won't do that because his instinct will get him out of that ambush". You can't cut corners when it comes to rules.

  12. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    I get what you're saying, but Riboku holding the front while GHM fortifies is already cooperation. You also have:

    As for my main army, it split into two as soon as they cross the river to the eastern island, GHM will head straight up the hill and capture it with 36,000 men while Riboku and the rest will block the incoming forces from the Northern island aiming for the hill - and that's his top priority -


    If we take a look at their clauses though, which you should know are considered word of god in CyK:

    Riboku:
    * Plan out tactics to defend the hill dissolve Ouki and/or Moubu's respective armies and contain them for as long as possible.

    GHM:
    * Simply capture his hill, and might even detach his army or use any of his inventions to do so & hold the enemies from interrupting him.

    Not only do the clauses not imply Riboku going uphill or GHM descending it, Riboku is actually told to hold his position for as long as possible. I'm afraid that having Riboku go uphill or GHM descend would be going directly against the clauses, and no matter how good Riboku and GHM may be, that's against the rules of the game.

    If we allow this, next time someone could go "well year sure I told the Duke to charge, but obviously he won't do that because his instinct will get him out of that ambush". You can't cut corners when it comes to rules.
    No, my instructions never implied Riboko would hold his position as long as possible; it's only until GHM captures the hill. My bulk army isn't a bait or a suicidal force for that to be the case.

    Well, if we assumed i didn't tell him to join GHM and use the fortified hill to his advantage, after GHM's done with it. What do you suggest Riboku and GHM will do, sit on their ass or die in vain?!

    I didn't add up after that because the battle would be as good as mine once i capture the hill, how to use it to gain the advantageous stalemate is a strategist's role by default and is not like the Duke's example at all, since that never contradicted my strat at all.

    Not like i had the luxery to add something to my already-long-ass strat.
    Last edited by DreX; 07-14-2018 at 01:23 PM.

  13. #133
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreX View Post
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    No, my instructions never implied Riboko would hold his position as long as possible; it's only until GHM captures the hill. My bulk army isn't a bait or a suicidal force for that to be the case.
    I'm gonna have to disagree because it literally says contain them for as long as possible.

    Well, if we assumed i didn't tell him to join GHM and use the fortified hill to his advantage, after GHM's done with it. What do you suggest Riboku and GHM will do, sit on their ass or die in vain?!
    Since your clauses are quite clearly telling them to hold positions, then yes, I'm afraid so.

    I didn't add up after that because the battle would be as good as mine once i capture the hill, how to use it to gain the advantageous stalemate is a strategist's role by default and is not like the Duke's example at all, since that never contradicted my strat at all.
    It kinda does because, like I already pointed out, Riboku's clause is quite clear with what he needs to do.

    Not like i had the luxery to add something to my already-long-ass strat.
    Can't agree with this either, since both Riboku and GHM have room for 1 more clause.


    The only way this game can function is if we stick to the rules. I know the clauses can be hard to word properly, but that's more or less the only thing you need to properly check when writing your strat. The map and general strat are just additions to understand the clauses more easily.

  14. #134
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    I'm gonna have to disagree because it literally says contain them for as long as possible.



    Since your clauses are quite clearly telling them to hold positions, then yes, I'm afraid so.



    It kinda does because, like I already pointed out, Riboku's clause is quite clear with what he needs to do.



    Can't agree with this either, since both Riboku and GHM have room for 1 more clause.


    The only way this game can function is if we stick to the rules. I know the clauses can be hard to word properly, but that's more or less the only thing you need to properly check when writing your strat. The map and general strat are just additions to understand the clauses more easily.
    what the ...

    ok.

  15. #135
    i guess i can agree that Riboku retreating to GHM's HQ should be self explanatory given the way the clauses sound even if there's no real mention of it.

    It's clearly meant to be holding until GHM finish his fortification yeah.

    Might not matter to much for the match, but I can probably give it to [Drex] on credit that Moubu's reinforcement will be a bit late and fortification made by GHM stacked with someone like Riboku should be hard to dealt even for Ouki and Moubu. Map edges take 2 days and Moubu did need to start late according to Crispy's strategy

    honestly the match is close and it just come down to personal opinion whether Moubu can upset the battle or not

  16. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    i guess i can agree that Riboku retreating to GHM's HQ should be self explanatory given the way the clauses sound even if there's no real mention of it.

    It's clearly meant to be holding until GHM finish his fortification yeah.

    Might not matter to much for the match, but I can probably give it to [Drex] on credit that Moubu's reinforcement will be a bit late and fortification made by GHM stacked with someone like Riboku should be hard to dealt even for Ouki and Moubu. Map edges take 2 days and Moubu did need to start late according to Crispy's strategy

    honestly the match is close and it just come down to personal opinion whether Moubu can upset the battle or not
    Honestly, when i first saw Crispi's stat, i thought i'd be given the credit of halting Moubu with that Zeno ambush, for the mere speculation that i've read him that well, and that the match is as good as mine, but then everyone kept on ass-pulling a variety of excuses.

  17. #137
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    Perhaps if I kept SSJ and he was the one to launch the ambush on Moubu it would've been more acceptable.

    @Ascot; perhaps it wasn't the best move after all

  18. #138
    Quote Originally Posted by DreX View Post
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    Perhaps if I kept SSJ and he was the one to launch the ambush on Moubu it would've been more acceptable.

    @Ascot; perhaps it wasn't the best move after all

    sorry, bro

    It was Haras fault holding on that last minute hype.

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