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  1. #61
    We should have proper internet tomorrow so I hope I can write it again and send it to Crispy + that he can open it.


  2. #62
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalIce View Post
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    We should have proper internet tomorrow so I hope I can write it again and send it to Crispy + that he can open it.
    Nice.

  3. #63
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    royallice's tough relationship with pms
    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalIce
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    Deployment:



    Black army: Kanmei (CiC,50k), Gyuun (20k) Shoumou (20k), Batei (10k)
    Yellow army: Seikai (40k), Hakurei (5k)
    Blue army: Kanjou (5k)

    General Strategy:

    My main focus will be to corner the enemies forces and hinder him from gaining terrain advantage by using a good communication. Kanmeis main forces will be taking the plains and crush through anyone that comes their way. Seikai stalls any enemy that may come through the rough terrain and wait for some of Kanmeis forces to corner them from behind. If there are none he advances. Kanjou will mainly be keeping up the communication between my armies and fortify the base. He will also send out spies to see if enemies try to advance from the right.

    Instructions:

    Kanmei:
    -uses his elites at the frontlines to crush the crush defences by brute force and keep the morale of the men at their peek
    -be ready to deploy parts of his forces to assist Seikai or Kanjou
    -pressure the enemies hq while being careful of traps

    Gyuun:
    -uses his instinct to keep Kanmei from walking into traps
    -help Kanmei in decision making when it comes to a possible split up

    Shoumou:
    -follow Kanmeis and Gyuuns commands

    Batei:
    -follow Kanmeis and Gyuuns commands

    Seikai:
    -send out spies to make sure if enemies try to take the terrain and if he can advance
    -keep enemies busy and hinder them from fortifying

    Hakurei:
    -help out Seikai by using poison arrows to snipe enemy generals

    Kanjou:
    -keep up the communication between these armies


    juan's tough relationships with long waits
    Quote Originally Posted by Juan
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    Deployment:

    black army is ghm & ssk, who will work in tandem, allowing each other to perform tactics/plans without leaving the army headless. ghm is cic. they are in charge of 70k. they also have sosui, who is personal commander of the 1k strong hi sosui unit!

    yellow army is ouhon, who will serve as the meat grinder of anyone that tries climbing the cliff he's in. he's in charge of 15k.

    blue army is junsou, who will conquer the right hill and help ouhon with his task. he has 30k troops.

    grey... thingie is mangoku, hidden behind the small cliff next to our central mountain. he has his 10k zombees, alongside 5k extra dudes.

    pink (light purple? fucsia? who cares) is great suck ass cho tou, who will take position in the mountain on the extreme left side of the map. he has 20k soldiers.

    Strategy:

    my army can't contend in pure strength, so we're going for something even better. ouhon & junsou will work together to stop anyone from getting up the cliff, using their superior positioning and strategic acumen to neutralize the enemy. ghm & ssk will build an impregnable fortress for the possibly eventual fight, and mangoku and chou tou are the nasty surprises. the hsu (get it? ) is delegated to scouting and messenger duties. we're aiming to make it too costly for royal to ever feasibly attack us in full strength. make him think it'd be a pyrrhic victory, if you will.

    Clauses:

    ouhon:

    - Will use a grinding strategy to destroy anyone trying to climb, but won't descend.

    - Will not engage in duels against Kanmei or Gyou'un, but if a chance to smack Batei and/or Seikai appears, will take it.

    junsou:

    -will use his 10k defense-oriented elites to help ouhon with his grinding and stopping anyone from climbing.

    - will take his remaining 20k to build/prepare the hill he's on and gradually send them out as reserves to the battlefields if needed.

    mangoku:

    - simple. if an enemy comes through the wei-di, will hit them on the flank with his whole army, but will not engage in duels, except for assassinating seikai

    - if no enemy comes, will do the same as in above clause but to center/right armies.

    chou tou:

    - will set up shop/fortify on the mountain, and when/if mangoku hits the enemy, will set out and do the same from behind.

    - help mangoku with strategy and making sure he hits the enemy army when it will hurt the most.

    sosui:

    - will scout the map, checking out what army is going where and who's attacking who.

    - will work as messenger, bringing data from the left & right wings to ghm and vice versa.

    ghm (cic):

    - will make fortifications in the central mountain to the best of his ability, with help from ssk.

    - according to the data given by sosui, will offer advice/change of strategy to the other armies, and (but not limited to) will use half (so 125) of his chariots on either wing, to give them a boost or seal the deal on the other battlefields.

    - if enemy armies try an assault on his mountain, will use his remaining chariots to attack and shoot his ballistas as demoralizers and to try and hit enemy commanders. after all, what need is there to duel kanmei when we can just send a few hundred pounds of wood through his chest?

    ssk:

    - if royal pulls a duke and siccs his whole fucking army through one spot, will recall the wings so they can flank & destroy the enemy when the battle ensues, if not will recall the available units to defend the fort once they're done with their respective enemy.

    - if ever needed, will take general control of the army to allow ghm to concentrate on smaller points/strategies/plan without the pressure of coordinating the whole army.



  4. #64
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    I was about to give this to Jj when I read:

    Seikai:
    -send out spies to make sure if enemies try to take the terrain and if he can advance
    That single line saved your middle from collapsing, as SSK would recall the right if Seikai hadn't pushed forward at some point.

    Left side of the map:

    Royal's Seikai and Hakurei (45k) vs Jj's Junsou and Ouhon (45k)

    This battlefield will take the longest to start, as Jj told his armies to sit on the hill, while Royal's armies will first scout the area and only engage once they realise Jj's armies aren't coming.
    Once the actual siege starts, Ouhon's clause not to descend might bite him in the ass real hard. As if Seikai and his poison ballista weren't enough, he's got a 10bow with poison arrows and that is a very scary combination. Still, this battle will take a long time to resolve.

    Will Royal's poison be enough to break the siege?


    Center:

    Royal's Kanmei, Gyouun, Shoumou and Batei (100k) vs Jj's GHM and SSK (70k) + Mangoku and Choutou (45k)

    We'll be looking at a standard siege here, Kanmei's army attacking GHM's fort, with a 45k flank coming in from right (since there's no one coming through the wei di). Normally, this would spell disaster for the Kanmei army, but Royal didn't let a flank slip past him, because he instructed Kanmei and, more importantly, Gyouun to be wary of such things.

    Kanmei also has the freedom to send reinforcements to the left, but can he spare any manpower while being pressured from the right?


    Right side of the map:

    Royal's Kanjou (5k) vs no one.

    Looks like Kanjou's unit is split between the starting mountain and the wei di. They're told to fortify and scout ahead, but they are also told keep up the communication, so I they will be joining the fight. This will take some time due to their initial tasks, but as luck would have it, it will serve Royal quite well.
    Given their tasks I don't think they even set out to engage before the Choutou/Mangoku armies have engaged his center, which means that Kanjou can bring his 5k army through the wei di and pressure them from the back.

    Will the upset caused by Kanjou be enough for Kanmei's overwhelming martial army to break Choutou and Mangoku?
    Last edited by Zentos; 07-11-2018 at 11:36 AM.

  5. #65
    Juan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    I was about to give this to Jj when I read:



    That single line saved your middle from collapsing, as SSK would recall the right if Seikai hadn't pushed forward at some point.

    Left side of the map:

    Royal's Seikai and Hakurei (45k) vs Jj's Junsou and Ouhon (45k)

    This battlefield will take the longest to start, as Jj told his armies to sit on the hill, while Royal's armies will first scout the area and only engage once they realise Jj's armies aren't coming.
    Once the actual siege starts, Ouhon's clause not to descend might bite him in the ass real hard. As if Seikai and his poison ballista weren't enough, he's got a 10bow with poison arrows and that is a very scary combination. Still, this battle will take a long time to resolve.

    Will Royal's poison be enough to break the siege?

    Center:

    Royal's Kanmei, Gyouun, Shoumou and Batei (100k) vs Jj's GHM and SSK (70k) + Mangoku and Choutou (45k)

    We'll be looking at a standard siege here, Kanmei's army attacking GHM's fort, with a 45k flank coming in from right (since there's no one coming through the wei di). Normally, this would spell disaster for the Kanmei army, but Royal didn't let a flank slip past him, because he instructed Kanmei and, more importantly, Gyouun to be wary of such things.

    Kanmei also has the freedom to send reinforcements to the left, but can he spare any manpower while being pressured from the right?

    Right side of the map:

    Royal's Kanjou (5k) vs no one.

    Looks like Kanjou's unit is split between the starting mountain and the wei di. They're told to fortify and scout ahead, but they are also told keep up the communication, so I they will be joining the fight. This will take some time due to their initial tasks, but as luck would have it, it will serve Royal quite well.
    Given their tasks I don't think they even set out to engage before the Choutou/Mangoku armies have engaged his center, which means that Kanjou can bring his 5k army through the wei di and pressure them from the back.

    Will the upset caused by Kanjou be enough for Kanmei's overwhelming martial army to break Choutou and Mangoku?
    Ouhon is allowed to descend as per his second clause thanks to seikai being the attacker, since slaying Seikai is a priority.

    And even if you dont buy that, ghm has a clause that allows him to change the strategy of the commanders under his command (heh) as per his second clause.

    and seikai can't just give hakurei his poison arrows, that's not allowed.

  6. #66
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan View Post
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    Ouhon is allowed to descend as per his second clause thanks to seikai being the attacker, since slaying Seikai is a priority.

    And even if you dont buy that, ghm has a clause that allows him to change the strategy of the commanders under his command (heh) as per his second clause.

    and seikai can't just give hakurei his poison arrows, that's not allowed.
    Oh, so you want Ouhon to dive into Seikai's army? Well, I mean, sure, but I have no idea why you just killed Ouhon and left Junsou to defend the hill by himself.

    It is, it's been done before.

    And don't quote massive posts like that. Put that shit in a spoiler.

  7. #67
    Juan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    Oh, so you want Ouhon to dive into Seikai's army? Well, I mean, sure, but I have no idea why you just killed Ouhon and left Junsou to defend the hill by himself.

    It is, it's been done before.

    And don't quote massive posts like that. Put that shit in a spoiler.
    Ouhon has a 15k army and Seikai himself deploys extremely close to the front, he's not getting killed.

    Yes, through the use of days of prep and the like, not right when the match starts.

  8. #68
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan View Post
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    Ouhon has a 15k army and Seikai himself deploys extremely close to the front, he's not getting killed.

    Yes, through the use of days of prep and the like, not right when the match starts.
    Seikai deployed like that because it was absolutely unthinkable that someone would get down from KP and assault them. Your point is moot.

    Once again you shot yourself in the leg. What exactly do you think you're doing with giving Ouhon 15k in the first place? If it was only the GHU, maybe he could somehow spearhead, but this just ain't happening.

    They siege won't start the first day for sure, probably not even the second, given how slow this match is going. He'll have plenty of time. Hakurei not getting it would be assuming both he and Seikai are complete morons.

  9. #69
    Juan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    Seikai deployed like that because it was absolutely unthinkable that someone would get down from KP and assault them. Your point is moot.

    Once again you shot yourself in the leg. What exactly do you think you're doing with giving Ouhon 15k in the first place? If it was only the GHU, maybe he could somehow spearhead, but this just ain't happening.

    They siege won't start the first day for sure, probably not even the second, given how slow this match is going. He'll have plenty of time. Hakurei not getting it would be assuming both he and Seikai are complete morons.
    it wasn't said to be because of KP, it was said to be their style and cautioness.

    how is 15k bad for an attack

    The GHU would have gotten swallowed

    That's still not a thing. The game changed after cyk 5 zentos, you need to catch up.

  10. #70
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Juan View Post
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    it wasn't said to be because of KP, it was said to be their style and cautioness.

    how is 15k bad for an attack

    The GHU would have gotten swallowed

    That's still not a thing. The game changed after cyk 5 zentos, you need to catch up.
    Nope. Try again.



    15k is bad for an attack because Ouhon has never shown himself leading more than 5k. And even if we assume he'll be fine leading 15k, he's going up against 45k so...rip Ouhon.

    It's a bad plan either way, 5k or 15k charging into 45k isn't helping you no matter how you twist it.

    It is a thing because it not being a thing goes against common sense.

    Anyway, you're stuck on a battlefield that likely has the least impact on the outcome.

  11. #71
    Pretty Flacko Jr. Tokio's Avatar
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    this is a tough one tbh

    that said, feel like jj wasted a lot of potential by keeping both ssk and ghm in the same location

    and the flank from man goku more than likely won't work

    the battle basically comes down to the center, and since juan didn't really intend to make any big moves there his hopes ride on a victory from his right wing

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    15k is bad for an attack because Ouhon has never shown himself leading more than 5k.


    And even if we assume he'll be fine leading 15k, he's going up against 45k so...rip Ouhon.

    It's a bad plan either way, 5k or 15k charging into 45k isn't helping you no matter how you twist it.
    quality > quantity
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  12. #72
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
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    quality > quantity
    Frown all you want, Ouhon made a single great move, the rest of the time he's been taking L's on the right.

    Good, because Hakurei is a fellow new gen who is the same as Ouhon, so Seikai has no worry what so ever.

  13. #73
    Pretty Flacko Jr. Tokio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    Frown all you want, Ouhon made a single great move, the rest of the time he's been taking L's on the right.

    Good, because Hakurei is a fellow new gen who is the same as Ouhon, so Seikai has no worry what so ever.
    feel like you missed the point there, but... he hasn't really taken any L's whatsoever on the right anyways.

    haku rei was decently inferior to ou hon even during the coalition. he isn't going to be ou hon's equal just because they're both new gen even if you want to assume their growth is proportionate.
    トキオ Love.$ex.Dreams

  14. #74
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
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    feel like you missed the point there, but... he hasn't really taken any L's whatsoever on the right anyways.

    haku rei was decently inferior to ou hon even during the coalition. he isn't going to be ou hon's equal just because they're both new gen even if you want to assume their growth is proportionate.
    What's the point then, if not that you think that Ouhon can lead 15k just fine?
    He got out played by Bananji, he got outplayed by CGR and he couldn't break through Gakuei's unit despite Gakuei fighting elsewhere. The only reason he didn't die to CGR is because he had a GG moment. A single moment in which he displayed an ability that is still out of his reach normally.

    How exactly is Hakurei bellow Ouhon? He scored a general kill. The fact that some dumbasses let Mouten sneak under a cart is by no means his fault. You've got no basis to put either him or Kouyoku under the Qin new gen, especially given that they will be their rivals story-vise.

  15. #75
    The thing is that Gyuun and Kanmei can still decide if they are going to fully commit on the enemy hq. If they dont see it fit due to traps or heavy fortifications they can still decide to send Shoumou over to assist Seikai. Thats why I wrote pressure the enemy hq not fully commiting and have Gyuun with Kanmei to help him with such decisions. That would leave 80k which should be able to defend themselfes from incoming attacks especially with 3 powerhouses still being left while Shoumou can decide the battle on the left for my army. It would also make sending reinforcements for GHM and SSK extremely hard if not impossible.

    Seikai wont be offensively engaging but also wont let the opponents do as they please. His job is to keep the left side busy. His poison corps and Hakurei wont be overcome that easily. With poison arrows Hakurei just needs to give a single scratch to Ouhon or Junsou to kill them or render them useless.


  16. #76
    Pretty Flacko Jr. Tokio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    What's the point then, if not that you think that Ouhon can lead 15k just fine?
    yeah, that's the point. don't really get how your argument of ou hon supposedly taking L's on the right wing was meant to refute that tho.

    He got out played by Bananji, he got outplayed by CGR and he couldn't break through Gakuei's unit despite Gakuei fighting elsewhere. The only reason he didn't die to CGR is because he had a GG moment. A single moment in which he displayed an ability that is still out of his reach normally.
    you got a really weird perspective on things. i'll never understand how you interpret cgr's failed pincer as ou hon getting outplayed by him. even if you assume ou hon's gg moment was nothing more than a one time stroke of brilliance, it's a pretty terrible argument since ou hon came out the winner by a mile in that engagement. bnj never outplayed ou hon, either.

    also, the gaku'ei army didn't completely blunt ou hon's momentum. he just couldn't break through before shin.

    How exactly is Hakurei bellow Ouhon? He scored a general kill. The fact that some dumbasses let Mouten sneak under a cart is by no means his fault. You've got no basis to put either him or Kouyoku under the Qin new gen, especially given that they will be their rivals story-vise.
    look at their stats

    haku rei's ability as a commander is below ou hon's by a pretty wide margin, and this was reflected in his performance on the field. his str as an archer has already reached it's peak, as well.
    トキオ Love.$ex.Dreams

  17. #77
    feel like Royal do a great job on his first match.

    The center being a siege actually makes a lot of room for Royal's Center army to move here. Kanmei is packing a serious punch with Shoumou, Batei and Gyou'un in his rank. He was told to "pressure the enemies hq while being careful of traps" and "be ready to deploy parts of his forces to assist Seikai or Kanjou". While Kanmei won't be a great strategist like GHM, pressuring the HQ only should be simple for someone who has taken down 100 cities without a single loss. And they get Gyou'un to somewhat help with his instinct.

    Shoumou or Batei can be sent to help Seikai with a pincer. A pincer attack from Mangoku/Choutou will hurt, but I don't think it will be that easy to break through Kanmei and Gyou'un army. Well, the game is probably way more closer than what my simple summary is, but i'm in favor of [Royal Ice] for this battle

  18. #78
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
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    yeah, that's the point. don't really get how your argument of ou hon supposedly taking L's on the right wing was meant to refute that tho.
    Well that's not very hard to figure out, is it? He's never led more than 5k and even then took some Ls.

    you got a really weird perspective on things. i'll never understand how you interpret cgr's failed pincer as ou hon getting outplayed by him. even if you assume ou hon's gg moment was nothing more than a one time stroke of brilliance, it's a pretty terrible argument since ou hon came out the winner by a mile in that engagement. bnj never outplayed ou hon, either.
    What's weird about the fact that the GHU would cease to exist had it not been for that single GG moment? Any other plan would've resulted with Ouhon dying on the spot. No hope to fight back, no hope to escape. Obviously, with that one brilliant move he outplayed CGR, but until that moment he was at his mercy because CGR had previously read him perfectly.

    also, the gaku'ei army didn't completely blunt ou hon's momentum. he just couldn't break through before shin.
    They were having trouble getting through, which shouldn't happen with Ouhon there.



    look at their stats

    haku rei's ability as a commander is below ou hon's by a pretty wide margin, and this was reflected in his performance on the field. his str as an archer has already reached it's peak, as well.
    His stats are slightly lower, but he's still shown himself capable.
    The rest is just your hypothesis. So is Qin the only country with perspective young commanders? And even if he did reach his peak, which is a bold claim given his age, he's still the 3rd bow.

    Anyway, it's not even my match so I don't feel like getting invested this much. Ouhon has not shown the ability to take down Seikai and Hakurei with 45k, while he himself has 15k only and my stance on that will not change.

  19. #79
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    interesting to see the battle unfolding in one of the players' very homes

    for now gotta say juan prepares himself fairly well considering what royal ended up doing


  20. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispickle View Post
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    interesting to see the battle unfolding in one of the players' very homes

    for now gotta say juan prepares himself fairly well considering what royal ended up doing
    I mean, I'm not sure what people expected/wanted me to do here, a frontal charge?

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