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Thread: Genderfluid

  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra View Post
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    Yeah even most people who have gender dysphoria have a very strong sense of identity - as the opposite gender. So I'm inclined to think being gender fluidity is just a trendy sorta thing
    There is definitely a trendy thing about it, but I am definitely curious about the psychology of it.


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  2. #42
    See you in the desert... Makenzye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
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    took your response to vice as your effort to contradict what he said, which is why i addressed your explanation the way i did. sounded like you were saying the aspect of your appearance alone can define you as transgender, when really it could have no bearing on what you personally identify as. for instance, men that could just naturally look girly, those whose feminine mannerisms are just a product of their environment, or certain male celebrities that wear female clothing just because they think it looks cool and not because they feel like a woman.
    It was in the very next sentence and the one before it.

    But as long as the confusion is cleared up, that's all that matters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by X View Post
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    There is definitely a trendy thing about it, but I am definitely curious about the psychology of it.
    It's sort of a cultural shift as we begin to question how and why we express gender the way we do and people are more welcome to express themselves without the same prejudice they might have had before.

    So it seems a lot more popular now here than say South East Asia which has had this tradition for way longer than we normally think of.

  3. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makenzye View Post
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    It was in the very next sentence and the one before it.

    But as long as the confusion is cleared up, that's all that matters.
    when you said "or" it made sound like you weren't linking all the aspects together as one whole, but saying the different facets could all singulary define one as transgender

    just like to make sure i wasn't crazy for interpreting what you said the way i did
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  4. #44
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    The gender identity disorders (GID) are defined as disorders in which an individual exhibits marked and persistent identification with the opposite sex and persistent discomfort (dysphoria) with his or her own sex or sense of inappropriateness in the gender role of that sex.

    Taken from google. Those people have valid conserns for their gender. They need to be the other.

    But genderfluidity is just making their struggle seem less important, with muddying the waters by stating that gender doesn't exist, or exists in all the ways you want, or switching from one only requires clothes and a mental attitude, or that there exists an "inbetween" state, simply brought on by the person's own belief.

    I believe one can't switch genders. With an asterisk.

    If you say to me there's a male wanting to be female, and with GID, I accept him as a trans female, and respect his wishes to be a female. His original gender doesn't change, but if his mental outlook on life improves, and he feels more comfortable as a trans-female, good on him.

    But if you show me a girl saying they're genderfluid, and today identify as they/them, I'll look at you funny.

    Gender isn't a social construct. Gender roles are, and how to be a man or how to be a woman is. But gender? XY or XX. Identity is its own thing, regardless of gender.




  5. #45
    See you in the desert... Makenzye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VICE View Post
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    Gender isn't a social construct. Gender roles are, and how to be a man or how to be a woman is. But gender? XY or XX. Identity is its own thing, regardless of gender.
    Like I shared with Gay: You’re describing sex not gender. Gender is a cultural/social thing. Sex is the biological part.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    The current attitude towards gender is very harmful to society.
    tfw youre about to agree with Pops before you realise he thinks the exact opposite thing you do

  7. #47
    Gender and sex are different things.

    Regardless, gender being a social construct is still a baseless claim.
    No.​

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Gender and sex are different things.

    Regardless, gender being a social construct is still a baseless claim.
    Are you against people who get plastic surgery?


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  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by X View Post
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    Are you against people who get plastic surgery?
    I generally don't support plastic surgery unless it's done because of something like an accident, disfigurement etc.
    No.​

  10. #50
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    what vice said
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  11. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by X View Post
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    Ahhhhh, it's not? You can't discriminate against someone because of their gender, just like their sexuality, age, or race.
    Misgendering someone has been roped into the same shit.

    As well as not using their stupid pronouns.



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  12. #52
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    Fucking degenerates, I tell ya.

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
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    that's a disorder
    You missed my point, i'm aware that having 2 personalities is a disorder. I'm just trying to paint a picture of how someone might have a different gender than there biological sex, it's an example. The point of that example wasn't to discuss the example itself, but to illustrate holding a gender opposite to your sex, which is why right afterwards i move on to the person with a single personality. Makes it easier to imagine and understand my general point. The point being, you can embody the social/psychological characteristics of the opposite gender as your sex. I mean, you can call that a disorder if you want, but my point was that the people saying that this doesn't exist or who can't imagine it being real are at the least wrong about that. Now if this applies specifically to gender fluid is a bit of extrapolation,but i mean i've seen cases, and they weren't identifying as genderfluid, but rather repressing there other gender.

    Though on disorders, what is and isn't a disorder is simply a question of what society does and doesn't accept. identifying as a gender different than your sex is as much of a disorder as being gay is, or rather was before it became normalized.

  14. #54
    @X;

    Though, the issue of plastic surgery for those suffering from gender dysphoria is something I'm less sure about. My instinct tells me it should generally be discouraged, but this is something that would (for me) need to be studied from a scientific and Islamic perspective before I issue a final verdict.
    No.​

  15. #55
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    PoPs displays his bigoted nature yet again






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  16. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rax View Post
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    Misgendering someone has been roped into the same shit.

    As well as not using their stupid pronouns.
    It's not though. Like, I can't discriminate against someone and not give them a job because they're genderfluid but I'm not going to be arrested or fined for the wrong pronoun, so I don't know why you're trying to make it seem that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    @X;

    Though, the issue of plastic surgery for those suffering from gender dysphoria is something I'm less sure about. My instinct tells me it should generally be discouraged, but this is something that would (for me) need to be studied from a scientific and Islamic perspective before I issue a final verdict.
    Hmmmm. Interesting. What teaching would all of this go against?


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  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    PoPs displays his bigoted nature yet again
    How was anything I said bigoted?

    Quote Originally Posted by X View Post
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    Hmmmm. Interesting. What teaching would all of this go against?

    It depends.

    Generally in Islam there's a prohibition on imitating the opposite sex in things that are seen as exclusive to that sex. Obviously this depends on the custom of the time and place. A good example is that wearing a kilt is not seen as feminine in Scotland but wearing a similar article of clothing elsewhere might be seen as such.

    However, gender dysphoria was a known phenomenon during the time of the Prophet SAW and the early Muslims. An exception as made for people suffering from gender dysphoria, since they have a legitimate medical condition that is out of their control. Thus, a male who suffers from the condition would be allowed to dress like a female and might even be allowed to be with females in private.

    Islam doesn't really have a concept of gender though, you're either a male for female depending on your apparent sex (intersex people have their own ruling).

    So a scholar would need to look at the evidences and do research on the scientific reality and so on to arrive at a ruling.
    Last edited by Pimp of Pimps; 06-14-2018 at 01:27 AM.
    No.​

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    How was anything I said bigoted?



    It depends.

    Generally in Islam there's a prohibition on imitating the opposite sex in things that are seen as exclusive to that sex. Obviously this depends on the custom of the time and place. A good example is that wearing a kilt is not seen as feminine in Scotland but wearing a similar article of clothing elsewhere might be seen as such.

    In other words what you have a problem with isnt what people choose to wear, its them choosing to wear clothing associated with an exclusive sex. In other words, if it was the norm that everyone who was a man wore a frilly dress and everyone who was a woman wore a power suit then there would be no issue with men wearing frilly dresses because that would be the manly thing to do.

    But this logic is wrong. If there is no concept of gender in Islam, then there should be no problem with people who experience gender dysphoria since gender not existing basically means there is no concrete black and white, male and female, answer for what gender a person is.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makenzye View Post
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    Like I shared with Gay: You’re describing sex not gender. Gender is a cultural/social thing. Sex is the biological part.
    For a large majority, those 2 are the same. But gender identity is individualistic. But yeah, not the same, arguably, but not a social construct either. Something more based on human nature. Society is like 1 factor, not the main one




  20. #60
    The notion that gender fluidity doesnt exist is almost as laughable as some of the ill informed arguments ive seen in this thread. Of course gender fluidity exists. There are boys who are more comfortable playing with barbie dolls than they are with action men, and there are some men who prefer to wear gentler feminine colours like pink in their clothing than stronger masculine colours.

    It is beyond asinine to think everything can be placed neatly into two little boxes, when everyone has a different personality and a different upbringing. You may as well be saying all men and all women are the same because one has a vagina and one has a penis. Its caveman logic and you should feel bad if you think this way

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