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Thread: Genderfluid

  1. #21
    Banned Drift's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makenzye View Post
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    You're talking about sex not gender.
    same thing?

  2. #22
    See you in the desert... Makenzye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gay View Post
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    same thing?
    They are not.

    One is a biological description, the other is a state of something.

    Think of it as the ideas of "smart" and "specialization." If we described them the same way you describe sex and gender then "smart" people would only ever have one specialization. For instance... I dunno... architecture engineering I guess. All smart people would be engineers and nothing else. No medicine, no art, no linguistics, just really good at designing and building things and nothing else. However, "smart" people express their intelligence in different ways as their minds tend to do things different from others. Some are smart at architecture, some at chemistry, some at medicine, some at physics, public relations, etc.

    One is the state of being the other is the expression of it. Sex is the biological state of being while gender is it's expression. It's actually a lens into why we perceive male and female behavior differently over time and from culture to culture. A "man" in the Middle East is different than a "man" in Russia, who would be different from a "man" in Mexico. It's just we generally collate the two out of misunderstanding the meaning behind the words.

    That's why when you go to the MVD they ask you for your sex and not your gender.

  3. #23
    ส็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็็ ส็็็ Tendou's Avatar
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    I personally don't understand it because, considering how deeply embedded the male/female binary is in human cultures, it's that radical and distant of a notion. But, that doesn't mean I'd interact with a genderfluid person in a way that they consider an affront to them as a person. If indulging them is lets say a display of irrationality, then I guess the arena of "positive interactions with others" is a more justifiable place to display it as opposed to other arenas. Long story short, peace in the middle east pls.

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    You wouldn't understand the substance. (under-sub; stand-stance)
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    Calling someone a nigger is not racist.
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    "As I watched top with a bashful smile, all I could do was bitterly laugh. His Dao of absurdity and anti-grammar had reached a level beyond my comprehension. "Dealth" was myy only fate."
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  4. #24
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    What about people born as both sexes? Are they the exception?
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  5. #25
    The current attitude towards gender is very harmful to society.
    No.​

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makenzye View Post
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    They are not.

    One is a biological description, the other is a state of something.

    Think of it as the ideas of "smart" and "specialization." If we described them the same way you describe sex and gender then "smart" people would only ever have one specialization. For instance... I dunno... architecture engineering I guess. All smart people would be engineers and nothing else. No medicine, no art, no linguistics, just really good at designing and building things and nothing else. However, "smart" people express their intelligence in different ways as their minds tend to do things different from others. Some are smart at architecture, some at chemistry, some at medicine, some at physics, public relations, etc.

    One is the state of being the other is the expression of it. Sex is the biological state of being while gender is it's expression. It's actually a lens into why we perceive male and female behavior differently over time and from culture to culture. A "man" in the Middle East is different than a "man" in Russia, who would be different from a "man" in Mexico. It's just we generally collate the two out of misunderstanding the meaning behind the words.

    That's why when you go to the MVD they ask you for your sex and not your gender.
    I don't understand that comparison at all, sorry.

    Are you saying that if everybody accepted who and what they are we'd only have specialists in the same arena?
    What the fuck?

    Try explaining it to me like i'm Michael Scott.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heart View Post
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    A good example actually, would be someone with multiple personalities, let's say one personality is a woman and one is a man, this is fully possible despite having only one body with one sex.
    that's a disorder
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  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalIce View Post
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    You are truly one of a kind


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    Quote Originally Posted by Makenzye View Post
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    They are not.

    One is a biological description, the other is a state of something.

    Think of it as the ideas of "smart" and "specialization." If we described them the same way you describe sex and gender then "smart" people would only ever have one specialization. For instance... I dunno... architecture engineering I guess. All smart people would be engineers and nothing else. No medicine, no art, no linguistics, just really good at designing and building things and nothing else. However, "smart" people express their intelligence in different ways as their minds tend to do things different from others. Some are smart at architecture, some at chemistry, some at medicine, some at physics, public relations, etc.

    One is the state of being the other is the expression of it. Sex is the biological state of being while gender is it's expression. It's actually a lens into why we perceive male and female behavior differently over time and from culture to culture. A "man" in the Middle East is different than a "man" in Russia, who would be different from a "man" in Mexico. It's just we generally collate the two out of misunderstanding the meaning behind the words.

    That's why when you go to the MVD they ask you for your sex and not your gender.


    >Mak trying to softly push the idea of infinite Genders



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    Quote Originally Posted by Heart View Post
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    but there's behavior and attributes we associate with sex, the fact that these two organs are even viewed as relevant differentiators is a social characteristic. The reason why we have people who identify with genders different than there biological sex is because our actual sex organs don't determine the social phenomena we associate with them. People tend to define gender as being those behavioral characteristics and attributes, and you can have the ones not associated with your physical sex.

    A good example actually, would be someone with multiple personalities, let's say one personality is a woman and one is a man, this is fully possible despite having only one body with one sex. Now let's simplify and say they don't have multiple personalities, but one personality that identifies itself as a gender other than it's biological sex.

    I'm glad you brought up race,because sex is very much like that, the physical aspect by itself is rather arbitrary, especially in a world that doesn't require everyone reproduce. Your skin color isn't really part of who you are, as in, it's not a part of your mind or personality, same with sex. So if society has expectations of you based upon skin color or sex you might just contradict it, or reject the entire classification system to begin with. There are less race based expectations, but a lot of sex based ones, which is why there is this whole gender confusion or rejection type thing going on.

    Multiple Personality disorder is a mental disorder.

    Don't try to normalize it with that 2 spirit garbage.



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  9. #29
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    I really don't think that that's the most pertinent thing to be understood from allaras analogy lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Minty View Post
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    You wouldn't understand the substance. (under-sub; stand-stance)
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    Calling someone a nigger is not racist.
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  10. #30
    See you in the desert... Makenzye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gay View Post
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    I don't understand that comparison at all, sorry.

    Are you saying that if everybody accepted who and what they are we'd only have specialists in the same arena?
    What the fuck?

    Try explaining it to me like i'm Michael Scott.
    I'm saying that being smart and expressing smart are the same thing as having a sex and expressing gender. It's not acceptance so much as how the project themselves. As is a smart person might project their intelligence as a chemist, a male might project themselves as a male. As a smart person might project themselves as a surgeon, a male might also project themselves as something we consider female.

    One is the state of who you are as determined by chromosomes or biological representation (in a very limited sense XX/XY, despite the shades between between or just having primary sex characteristics) the other is the state of who you are as a person. Since most people tend to express what we understand as gender norms conforming to their sex we conflate the ideas of gender and sex as the same thing. However, they are not.

    Think of it this way: When we talk about trans we specifically use two terms - transgender and transsexual. When we talk about transgender we're talking about people who appear different from their biological sex. So a girl who dresses like a boy or a boy who dresses like a girl and behaves as what we might consider all that entails to be. Transsexual refers to someone who has gone through reassignment surgery.

    What helps confuse this is how we don't really specify these differences in life, even from medical professionals who use sex reassignment surgery and gender reassignment surgery.
    Last edited by Makenzye; 06-13-2018 at 09:41 PM.

  11. #31
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    they are deceiving themselves. could be body dysphoria, but in that case usually it's about feeling like other gender(male if female and vice versa) and due to that identifying as Trans.

    Genderfluidity means more like treating gender as an opinion.




  12. #32
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    How is being genderfluid real hahaha

  13. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra View Post
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    How is being genderfluid real hahaha
    It's not. There's no scientific backing.

  14. #34
    See you in the desert... Makenzye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VICE View Post
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    they are deceiving themselves. could be body dysphoria, but in that case usually it's about feeling like other gender(male if female and vice versa) and due to that identifying as Trans.

    Genderfluidity means more like treating gender as an opinion.
    Partially. It's also about identifying what being like one or the other is, or if they MUST conform to binary representation to begin with. Since gender operates more as a social norm it's prone to change and question.

    When people identify as trans it means more they simply don't identify as what we would normally file under a specific gender expression. For instance, a man may enjoy using female makeup products and dressing in female clothing or may enjoy male facial hair but female fashion and would not be considered a traditional "male" in gender expression. It's why you see people identify as trans and not as a "solid gender," because they often sit somewhere between them. It isn't deception on their part because that would imply they do understand who they are and actively work against it. That's usually what comes before they begin expressing themselves differently.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makenzye View Post
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    Partially. It's also about identifying what being like one or the other is, or if they MUST conform to binary representation to begin with. Since gender operates more as a social norm it's prone to change and question.

    When people identify as trans it means more they simply don't identify as what we would normally file under a specific gender expression. For instance, a man may enjoy using female makeup products and dressing in female clothing or may enjoy male facial hair but female fashion and would not be considered a traditional "male" in gender expression. It's why you see people identify as trans and not as a "solid gender," because they often sit somewhere between them. It isn't deception on their part because that would imply they do understand who they are and actively work against it. That's usually what comes before they begin expressing themselves differently.
    How many genders do you think there are?



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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makenzye View Post
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    When we talk about transgender we're talking about people who appear different from their biological sex. So a girl who dresses like a boy or a boy who dresses like a girl and behaves as what we might consider all that entails to be.
    not exactly true. like vice said, more than just that, it's when an individual doesn't feel like they personally identify with their biological sex. if what you're saying was the case it'd imply that someone simply of a different culture could define as transgender for you because they have different traditional gender roles than whatever the norm is wherever you come from.

    sounds like you're confusing a persons sexual identity with their mannerisms and appearance.
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  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halaros 536 View Post
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    It's not. There's no scientific backing.
    Yeah even most people who have gender dysphoria have a very strong sense of identity - as the opposite gender. So I'm inclined to think being gender fluidity is just a trendy sorta thing

  18. #38
    See you in the desert... Makenzye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
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    not exactly true. like vice said, more than just that, it's when an individual doesn't feel like they personally identify with their biological sex. if what you're saying was the case it'd imply that someone simply of a different culture could define as transgender for you because they have different traditional gender roles than whatever the norm is wherever you come from.

    sounds like you're confusing a persons sexual identity with their mannerisms and appearance.
    That's exactly what I said in a previous post, I was explaining the difference between transgender and transsexual in that post. C'mon. At least put in the correct context.

    We define gender along cultural boundaries as opposed to simply comparing from a single culture. That's why when we talk about men in America compared to men in Italy we specifically talk about "men from someplace" and not "men" and "transgenders." Because we still consider them as men, just different from the men of the first culture and close enough that we wouldn't say, "Men from America compared to what may be seen as women from Italy."

    It's also why we specifically talk about "men" or "women" from parts of the world, and historically, from what culture and era they come from.

  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rax View Post
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    Laughable.

    These are the same people who think there's 90+ genders and why misgendering someone is a crime in Canada.
    Ahhhhh, it's not? You can't discriminate against someone because of their gender, just like their sexuality, age, or race.


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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Makenzye View Post
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    That's exactly what I said in a previous post, I was explaining the difference between transgender and transsexual in that post. C'mon. At least put in the correct context.
    took your response to vice as your effort to contradict what he said, which is why i addressed your explanation the way i did. sounded like you were saying the aspect of your appearance alone can define you as transgender, when really it could have no bearing on what you personally identify as. for instance, men that could just naturally look girly, those whose feminine mannerisms are just a product of their environment, or certain male celebrities that wear female clothing just because they think it looks cool and not because they feel like a woman.
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