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  1. #21
    pretty sure Tou is replacing Duke there since they need to keep Zhao army in check. that's why no one can go back and help Sai in the first place

  2. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
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    Even when the Duke left for Riboku with his elites, Keisha still did NOTHING whatsoever there.
    because the coalition armies were ordered not to
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  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    pretty sure Tou is replacing Duke there since they need to keep Zhao army in check. that's why no one can go back and help Sai in the first place
    Not been stated. And where would Tou find that time with Karin anyway?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
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    because the coalition armies were ordered not to
    Bollocks.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
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    Not been stated. And where would Tou find that time with Karin anyway?

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    Bollocks.
    https://mangadex.org/chapter/63197/6

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Naki View Post
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    No reason why Keisha did not advance.

    Again. Bullshit.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
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    No reason why Keisha did not advance.

    Again. Bullshit.
    Tou was flanking the battlefield... the Chu army nearly unusable and they thought they could just wait it out until Riboku has taken the capital

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Naki View Post
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    Tou was flanking the battlefield... the Chu army nearly unusable and they thought they could just wait it out until Riboku has taken the capital
    Not stated like that.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
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    Not stated like that.
    https://mangadex.org/chapter/63161/12

    https://mangadex.org/chapter/63161/14

    https://mangadex.org/chapter/63162/9

    https://mangadex.org/chapter/63165/11

    Karin couldnt take over the whole army, damn even Shunshinkun wanted to, the king was questioning renpa if he should send Kouen as help.

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispickle View Post
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    i don't think keisha needs gaimou if he has his vassals already. He defeated duke hyou in the plains, he will in kokuyou too.
    lololoololololol

    so the trap on the first day of the battle worked and the entire battle is Keisha's victory? lololololol

    despite the numerical disadvantages and how the Duke slayed 10,000 men of the Zhao's army in one day afterwards lolololol.


    "For years he devoted himself to training and after he could no longer find strong foes, Mihawk joined the Warlords."

    "Though Hawk-Eyes strikes fear into the hearts of those who follow the way of the sword, he looks forward to the future, to the day when he will meet the swordmaster that surpasses his rival 'Red Hair'."

    "He rose to renown even before the Great Age of Piracy. Even now he reigns supreme as the World's Best in name and actuality, an exceptional master swordsman."

    "He sits atop as the strongest, gazing down at his prey. The World's Strongest Swordsman!"

  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huo Yuhao View Post
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    lololoololololol

    so the trap on the first day of the battle worked and the entire battle is Keisha's victory? lololololol

    despite the numerical disadvantages and how the Duke slayed 10,000 men of the Zhao's army in one day afterwards lolololol.
    the trap on the first day did work tho lol

    shin had to save the duke's army
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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Naki View Post
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    https://mangadex.org/chapter/63161/12

    https://mangadex.org/chapter/63161/14

    https://mangadex.org/chapter/63162/9

    https://mangadex.org/chapter/63165/11

    Karin couldnt take over the whole army, damn even Shunshinkun wanted to, the king was questioning renpa if he should send Kouen as help.
    Again. Where is Keisha his position stated?

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
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    the trap on the first day did work tho lol

    shin had to save the duke's army
    but to declare that entire battle as Keisha's victory? He got the best of Duke Hyou on the first day, true, but part of it was due to the Zhao commander being an unknown.

    we saw afterwards what happened. Keisha was as quiet as a mice the entire war. He literally lost 10,000 men to the Duke without any retaliation.


    "For years he devoted himself to training and after he could no longer find strong foes, Mihawk joined the Warlords."

    "Though Hawk-Eyes strikes fear into the hearts of those who follow the way of the sword, he looks forward to the future, to the day when he will meet the swordmaster that surpasses his rival 'Red Hair'."

    "He rose to renown even before the Great Age of Piracy. Even now he reigns supreme as the World's Best in name and actuality, an exceptional master swordsman."

    "He sits atop as the strongest, gazing down at his prey. The World's Strongest Swordsman!"

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
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    Again. Where is Keisha his position stated?
    https://mangadex.org/chapter/63167/13

    https://mangadex.org/chapter/63197/6

    they remainded in a glare contest, because after the battle failed the only reason they stayed there was because the Qin couldnt send any reinforcement to the other sides (the city of sai). Duke going didnt change anything because again Tou was flanking the Zhao and Duke HQ was on the "mountain" area beside Kankoku pass.
    Last edited by Naki; 06-03-2018 at 07:47 PM.

  14. #34
    previously Kyte DreX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Great General View Post
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    Yeah yeah, just give the Duke 120000 Vs 40000 Keisha army, even if Keisha have 10 lifes, Duke will only need 10 swing to slay keisha.

    That is false. Crispi might just be relying on his weird ass 'cuteness' radar to overrate Keisha, but you're underestimating him far more than he could be overestimating him.

    Not only he's a honed instinctual general who has displayed a substantially great sense-perception of warfare - as in the coalition war - but he's also a great tactician who’ve been raised taught strategy by the none other than Riboku. Indeed, he might be severely lacking in arm strength, which would overall drag him behind the more well-rounded Duke, but his intelligence strat is, and by far, higher than Duke’s (90 to 70) which reflects his proper schooling of strategy. And needless to mention, coupled with his natural instinctual talent, which is not at all short to the Duke's own, he's very well superior if it's simply a battle of brains, after all, in simulation battles, even Riboku admitted that he's lost a few times to him on the tabletop. And i always love to highlight how he carved a perfect example of employing both strategy and instincts in the colation war, and well, Shin was there to save the Duke's ass, but take a while and just imagine substituting ManGoku with Gaimou in the very same scenario ... I think i don't even need to elaborate on how fearsome this duo could get... Obviously enough, Shin and the Duke aren't even close to complementing each other as well Keisha does with Gaimou.

    not sure why you’re giving the duke three times Kiesha’s troops, but still, even though the possibility of the Duke's victory does still exist, it's slim.

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    Did I just defend one of Crispi's fanboys?


  15. #35
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    I'm not sure if you're trolling but Keisha's instinct is in no way near the Duke's instinctual level.

    Riboku himself stated that the Duke is outside his understanding as he conquered Ryuudouryuku. And the Duke has a 100 stat in instinct. You're going to have to provide evidence to prove this.


    "For years he devoted himself to training and after he could no longer find strong foes, Mihawk joined the Warlords."

    "Though Hawk-Eyes strikes fear into the hearts of those who follow the way of the sword, he looks forward to the future, to the day when he will meet the swordmaster that surpasses his rival 'Red Hair'."

    "He rose to renown even before the Great Age of Piracy. Even now he reigns supreme as the World's Best in name and actuality, an exceptional master swordsman."

    "He sits atop as the strongest, gazing down at his prey. The World's Strongest Swordsman!"

  16. #36
    previously Kyte DreX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huo Yuhao View Post
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    I'm not sure if you're trolling but Keisha's instinct is in no way near the Duke's instinctual level.

    Riboku himself stated that the Duke is outside his understanding as he conquered Ryuudouryuku. And the Duke has a 100 stat in instinct. You're going to have to provide evidence to prove this.
    Can you proceed without further asspulls from your side, please? Instincts isn't a quantitative stat from what I see. Both of them are just referred to as instinctual generals of different types.

    He's also the same Riboku who compared them both to Zhao's prime minister saying that he holds absolute faith in him as he interested the whole Zhao army to him. Say, Riboku wouldn't have matched Keisha with the Duke, and in a critical battle like that, if he even held a shred of doubt that he's at least not compatible, would he? a that, given the obvious difference in martial power between the two armies, despite the difference in numbers.

    And it's on that battle itself that one could draw that conclusion that they're on a comparable level instinctually, well, at least if you're rational person lol. If you wanna argue that the Duke is exceedingly better at instincts you're the one who needs to bring up some evidence, at this point.


    Oh, Riboku did say that it's outside his understanding, indeed. Well, ofc it is because he's not an instinctual general himself, simple as... Doesn't mean that it can't be countered.

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    Duke's impression in the manga was by all measures, strong. Much stronger than Keisha, tbh. You must be one hell of a naive punk if you just gave up to that, though. Here, we're speaking theoretically without personal influence, and hence, I give it the second team.


  17. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by DreX View Post
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    Can you proceed without further asspulls from your side, please? Instincts isn't a quantitative stat from what I see. Both of them are just referred to as instinctual generals of different types.

    He's also the same Riboku who compared them both to Zhao's prime minister saying that he holds absolute faith in him as he interested the whole Zhao army to him. Say, Riboku wouldn't have matched Keisha with the Duke, and in a critical battle like that, if he even held a shred of doubt that he's at least not compatible, would he? a that, given the obvious difference in martial power between the two armies, despite the difference in numbers.

    And it's on that battle itself that one could draw that conclusion that they're on a comparable level instinctually, well, at least if you're rational person lol. If you wanna argue that the Duke is exceedingly better at instincts you're the one who needs to bring up some evidence, at this point.


    Oh, Riboku did say that it's outside his understanding, indeed. Well, ofc it is because he's not an instinctual general himself, simple as... Doesn't mean that it can't be countered.

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    Duke's impression in the manga was by all measures, strong. Much stronger than Keisha, tbh. You must be one hell of a naive punk if you just gave up to that, though. Here, we're speaking theoretically without personal influence, and hence, I give it the second team.
    You're the one with the baseless claims.

    Compatible=/=near the Duke's level. You say it's just a difference in numbers, obviously downplaying this ENORMOUS DIFFERENCE. Duke was up against an army three times his number, with three times more commanders on Zhao's side. Riboku could believe in Keisha's ability but considering he's his own underling, you'd take it with a grain of salt. Especially considering the numbers, Keisha should have no problem holding out, which is exactly what he did after the first day.

    exactly how do you reach this conclusion? You didn't provide any evidences except Riboku's trust in his deputy, which doesn't mean much. You made the claim, you'd have to back it up. WE know that Duke is the epitome of instinct, I don't need to bring up evidence for this, you'd have to for Keisha.

    well, that's the wrong way to interpret the meaning behind Riboku's words. Anyways, considering the fact that the Duke is the first to conquer the Ryuudou, you'd need to provide something from Keisha's side to counter it.


    "For years he devoted himself to training and after he could no longer find strong foes, Mihawk joined the Warlords."

    "Though Hawk-Eyes strikes fear into the hearts of those who follow the way of the sword, he looks forward to the future, to the day when he will meet the swordmaster that surpasses his rival 'Red Hair'."

    "He rose to renown even before the Great Age of Piracy. Even now he reigns supreme as the World's Best in name and actuality, an exceptional master swordsman."

    "He sits atop as the strongest, gazing down at his prey. The World's Strongest Swordsman!"

  18. #38
    previously Kyte DreX's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Huo Yuhao View Post
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    You're the one with the baseless claims.

    Compatible=/=near the Duke's level. You say it's just a difference in numbers, obviously downplaying this ENORMOUS DIFFERENCE. Duke was up against an army three times his number, with three times more commanders on Zhao's side. Riboku could believe in Keisha's ability but considering he's his own underling, you'd take it with a grain of salt. Especially considering the numbers, Keisha should have no problem holding out, which is exactly what he did after the first day.

    exactly how do you reach this conclusion? You didn't provide any evidences except Riboku's trust in his deputy, which doesn't mean much. You made the claim, you'd have to back it up. WE know that Duke is the epitome of instinct, I don't need to bring up evidence for this, you'd have to for Keisha.

    well, that's the wrong way to interpret the meaning behind Riboku's words. Anyways, considering the fact that the Duke is the first to conquer the Ryuudou, you'd need to provide something from Keisha's side to counter it.
    You're simply going back and forth without feeding the argument, and you probably know that yourself.

    you say WE know? LOL. As I said, that's just your impression, kiddo. Fact is the Duke was held on the verge of defeat for a while until Shin's intrusion. And here, I wouldn't honestly fetch him some pity excuses such the difference in number because that means a real underestimation of his strength. Afterall, he went up against more than twice the number of his troops in the battle of Dakan plains as well, and against the 97-intel GG and instincts specialist Gokei, nonetheless, but he won with flying colors. Let's not lie to ourselves, what happened in the coalition war was not due to the difference in numbers; the Duke was REALLY outsmarted there, and if it wasn't for Shin, he wouldn't have won.

    You know, bringing up 'conquering the Ryuudou' is of really less relevance here. And that's simply because him being the first to conquer it doesn't mean he's the only one capable of pulling it. It's not like Keisha did counter it, at least in the storyline. Also, the Duke's martial power was a huge contributor to this feat which is lacking in Keisha.

    For future reference, learn that if you are bringing up an evidence for favoring someone over an another, it must be relevant to both. Here, it simply means that Duke is good, perhaps incredibly good, but where do you prove that he's 'no way near the Duke's instinctual level' facepalm: ?

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    btw, is it just me, or is the spoiler release this weak kinda late?
    Last edited by DreX; 06-04-2018 at 12:31 AM.


  19. #39
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    just pointing out this tidbit. it was actually stated that kei sha couldn't figure out ryuudou.

    also, nah spoilers usually come out 10 - 12 hours from now
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  20. #40
    Keisha alone can't beat Duke Hyou on equal terms, but if Gaimou is also there, then it's a different story. Gaimou was presented as a duelist equal to Renpa, if he forces Duke to a duel, then his army is in trouble, since Keisha is free to act. Also Keisha's vassals may be scrubs, but they are still generals and can bring to the table more then Duke's subs.

    But, if the HSU is there, then the situation is far more difficult to predict.

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