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  1. #1

    What are your thoughts on a united European Army?

    Some intel beforehand on the EU military:


    Active/Reserve military personell: 1.4million/1.7million


    Ground artillery: 6,700 tanks, 48,971 AFVs, 2,312 SPGs, 3,492 Towed-Artillery and 1,069 MLRSs


    Aircrafts: 6751


    Naval: 61 submarines, 102 frigates, 21 destroyers, 39 corvettes, 167 Mine Warfare Craft, and 210 patrol craft, 8 aircraft carriers


    -


    I was actually massively surprised when learning about these numbers in detail. These are numbers challenging the US military (apart from aircraft and aircraft carriers, where the US has double as much).


    By sheer numbers the EU is a military superpower - but due to them splitting all these military stuff up into 27 different nations, the efficency is lacking.


    -


    Do you think the EU should increase their effort into bringing all their armies together, creating a unified EU-Army in the current and future geopolitical game?


    Did you even knew about the EU having such numbers in their military? What do you think about, maybe a german, soon being able to command 3.5 million soldiers?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Game Master View Post
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  4. #4
    The Dragon of Katsurahama Nordlending's Avatar
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    Why on earth would you think EU would ever consider this.
    ​​

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    VICE's Avatar
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    Sources for these numbers? Even with those numbers of EU military, what nation's army is it consisting of?

    Even finland has almost 1 million in active + reserves, out of 5.5 million citizen. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Defence_Forces

    But they're not EU-based.




  6. #6
    blackdragonstory's Avatar
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    As eu controls nearly everything there is to control I dont see what is stopping them from controlling the way armies work in eu countries and later on collect portions of those armies to form a bigger army that is working for eu specifically.
    They can say it's for our own safety against russia,kim,america whoever and ponder how this forces will help when there is a need cuz of natural disasters etc.

    It's really not that hard.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by VICE View Post
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    Sources for these numbers? Even with those numbers of EU military, what nation's army is it consisting of?

    Even finland has almost 1 million in active + reserves, out of 5.5 million citizen. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_Defence_Forces

    But they're not EU-based.
    What you mean they are not EU-based?
    Last edited by R; 06-01-2018 at 07:13 PM.

  8. #8
    Banned Whitebeard's Avatar
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    The EU's biggest powers are France and Italy. Germany could be considered on par too. Combined european forces nothing to laugh at either. Although european countries have far less equipment compared to US for examples, they are certainly not lacking in quality. Germany's Leopard tanks are arguably the best in the world and the weapons industry is relatively well developed even in countries that aren't considered as big dogs like Austria. France is well known for its military service vessel production for example, which supports even countries like Russia. Typhon Eurofighter is one of the best jets in service and could easily challenge the american F-22 or the russian Su-35. With UK leaving however, EU has a lost major power. UK soldiers were among the best trained in the world, not only their famous SAS.

    The problems such an army would face however would be willingness to cooperate, management and coordination. Even if we assume that all european countries would align their interests and form a common army, there would be trouble in managing this unitary force, since the EU isn't like the US, where the government has direct control over each state, but comprised of different countries. More powerful states would also have to support and cover for the weaker powers and fill the weak points. It would take several years for this army to work in complete unison. All the tactics, strategies, training, deployments and everything else would have to be well planned ahead and several drills would have to be performed with troops from each nation, which makes it quite hard for it to work to be honest. It would take at the very least a decade for them to be a serious challenge the US, assuming they would catch up with production of aircraft and navy vessels.

  9. #9
    Cafe Conqueror X's Avatar
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    Seems plausible.


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    Uhm, yes?
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    That CUNT SpiRo can get the fuck out. The act of watching graphic stuff like that is not in and of itself bad. Ive always had a fascination with snuff and disturbing films. If youre going to argue that im not a good person or whatever because of that, then i guess every single person who likes action movies, manga, sports or anything that contains physical combat and violence must also be the same. There is a distinction between having an INTEREST in something and ADVOCATING or APPROVING of it.
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    Akainu is stronger than Shanks though
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    What do you mean do I think Vergo could beat Sanji, it already happened in the manga.

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    No swordsmen can beat Doffy. The guy can stitch his internal organs after taking a Counter Shock hit, sword wounds are a piece of cake for him. Vista's Mihawk level Haki and base stats would probably push Doffy to high-difficulty though.
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    No swordsmen can beat Doffy with a sword. Plain and simple. It's same like beating Buggy with a sword or Jozu with a sword. It's impossible, use your brain.
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    Evidence is the anime filler and common sense.
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    Doffy>Jozu>Cracker.The Manga show´s it pretty clear
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    Mihawk has more Hype,better portrayal and the better feats.

    Aokiji had problems with Jozu.

    Mihawk is also for now the strongest Char in the Series.Thats for sure
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    The World know that Mihawk is the WSS.He is just as famous and dangerous as the yonkous.The only difference is that he has no crew
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    the last battle of MF Whitebeard where he KO'ed Akainu.
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    Doffy cannot fight Mihawk for even 5 minutes.
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    Even Base Teach was able to defeat that pre-prime Shanks.
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    Akainu couldn't continue fighting while WB could. Pretty clear cut to me.
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    Akainu, by some luck, didn't fall into the sea, he probably caught a piece of ground and cling onto it until he regained his consciousness.
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    Also we know that BM already defeated Kaido at least once or even twice.
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    okey.
    So, Shanks is the protege of the PK? and Mihawk is the protege of the Apes king ? both of them were on the same ship idiot, not even a hint on who Roger preferred from the both in the manga, and when did i fucking say that Shanks has no potential, didn't even say that he falls to Mihawk in that aspect, i'm merely saying that we can say who.

    Monkey, Mihawk said that he ain't fighting Shanks in that specific meeting of their, and it was in a sarcastic way of denying because he didn't come for fighting unlike usual, he came for showing him Luffy's poster.
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    Retard, Shanks lost deliberately to that marine snake. Why would he want to heal his lost arm.
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  11. #11
    Mega Ton
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    So all of these independent countries would join to form one military? That seems like a lot of differing opinions on how this military will operate.

  12. #12
    The West is too nationalistic. Will never work.
    No.​

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by blackdragonstory View Post
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    As eu controls nearly everything there
    You mean Russia controls basically everything lol, Russias vice grip on Europes oil means they could shut down half of Europe alone if they ever choose to do so.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
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    You mean Russia controls basically everything lol, Russias vice grip on Europes oil means they could shut down half of Europe alone if they ever choose to do so.
    For Europe to receive their oil and gas from Arabia, the US, Iran etc.

    These argument really never hit home, since the current world is no longer a supplier market. And oil and gas are nothing special but instead a product offered by many.

    Russia - EU relationships over Gas transfers are important for both blocs. But neither block can use this for political gain when shit hits the fan. Arguing "russia controls everything" simply is factually incorrect.

  15. #15
    Banned Whitebeard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    The West is too nationalistic. Will never work.
    Why would you think that?

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitebeard View Post
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    Why would you think that?

    The nationalism or it never working?
    No.​

  17. #17
    Banned Whitebeard's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    The nationalism or it never working?
    Nationalism. I can see other regions being more nationalistic.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Whitebeard View Post
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    Nationalism. I can see other regions being more nationalistic.
    Nationalism is rooted in Western culture, hence it being the origin point for modern nationalism. The modern concept of a West itself only came about as a reaction to the Ottomans in the first place and it was against a more pressing outside force that they somewhat united.

    Other regions might be more or less nationalistic than individual countries in the West, but it's not rooted in their culture as deeply. Nationalism, for example, is foreign to Islam so we'll eventually see it leaving the Muslim world entirely.

    The only way to unite is based on ideology, every other type of unity is contingent on material factors.
    No.​

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by R View Post
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    For Europe to receive their oil and gas from Arabia, the US, Iran etc.
    .
    The bulk of Europes oil is imported from Russia and after that its from Norway. Itd be far too costly to import heavily from any of these countries

    Less than 10% of our oil makes up the combined total we get from these countries

    No offence but youre talking crazy if you dont think oil and gas are important

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
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    The bulk of Europes oil is imported from Russia and after that its from Europe. Itd be far too costly to import heavily from any of these countries

    Less than 10% of our oil makes up the combined total we get from these countries

    No offence but youre talking crazy if you dont think oil and gas are important
    The way you made it sound was that there is an imminent conflict between Europe and Russia, which causes Russia to shut down all oil delivery (never happened before by the way, not cold war, not ukraine crisis etc. EU-Russia gas transfers have been reliable ever since). In this case the European reserves are more than enough to supply the entirety of EU for months. Enough time to sign increasing deals with other providers (The US in particular is keen on delivering to europe, its even word-by-word part of their sanction billl against russia).

    No one denied the fact that oil and gas are important. What I deny, and rightfully so, is that russian gas in case of an actual threat and economical or military conflict can not be replaced.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Nationalism is rooted in Western culture, hence it being the origin point for modern nationalism. The modern concept of a West itself only came about as a reaction to the Ottomans in the first place and it was against a more pressing outside force that they somewhat united.

    Other regions might be more or less nationalistic than individual countries in the West, but it's not rooted in their culture as deeply. Nationalism, for example, is foreign to Islam so we'll eventually see it leaving the Muslim world entirely.

    The only way to unite is based on ideology, every other type of unity is contingent on material factors.
    So when all Europeans united in a new found "European nationalism", would you think the EU Army would be good or bad?

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