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  1. #21
    Halaros 536's Avatar
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    Nothing is happening. These are symbolic moves that have no real impact and no real result.

  2. #22
    blackdragonstory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halaros 536 View Post
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    You're being too vague, possibly because you don't have enough knowledge. What does "too much control" mean and how does it compare to surrendering the sovereignty of your military? You're not giving any evidence. Just so you know even on economic matters France ignores the rules for the deficits for example, bankrupt Greece who's under tight controls can ignore the rules and did increase it's expenses for defense purposes and we have a fucking memorandum. Even Schengen rules get ignored and countries that don't want to take people do not, Hungary and Poland (Poland is one of the very few with a capable army) do what they want etc. And you say that these countries will surrender parts of their armies to build a new army, not controlled by them, that nobody knows how and when and if will ever be effective while they are part of the strongest military alliance, why?

    Of course you ignored all the other counter arguments I gave.



    You must live in the no argument land, cause you haven't given any arguments. I've given plenty of reasons why this project will never be realized and you've presented no evidence for your case. I understand that not everyone is capable of arguing effectively and you're evidently in that category, but make an effort at least.
    I didnt want to go on any tangents because I am not as you said that familiar with how world works.
    So instead I simply asked you the questions that to me seem important.

    Imo both monetary and military sovereignty are important for country sovereignty.
    For example if you dont have military you are basically an easy target if anyone ever wanted to conquer you so pretty straight forward.

    Monetary sovereignty is maybe even worse at this century.
    There is far more dangers than simple occupation and war.
    Greece can do what you say only because it is still part of eu and it is in their interest to have a permanent cash cow but lets pretend greece didnt want any more of eu bs and left.
    What happens then?
    Greece loses monetary help from eu,loses eu market,probably has to fall back onto their old currency which is worth less Euros which means even more debt.
    How can they even function??
    It is only a matter of whenever banks/eu bank or a collective of banks from whom they took the money want to let greeks to live on and pay the debt or whenever they want to take full control of a whole country.
    There is nothing that is stopping them legally.

    Of course banks dont want to look like monsters so they will just let them be and feed from them forever.

    If eu ever unified as a country or as america into a fedaration idk if eu will be a good place to live.
    Eu at the moment isnt about freedom,it's about safety>freedom,it has also been infested by the feminists and sjw if I am not mistaken.

    Again,I didnt answer all your arguments cuz some were meh.
    People that represent us in eu are pushing for their own worldviews and gains,they dont give rats ass about the people they sent them there.
    The politicians in our country keep doing shit decisions and eu is calling for even worse shit.
    Our politicians overall dont know how a politician should be and act.
    And that is crucial to bring in new politicians who are representing the people more clearly.
    So most people dont even vote because there is 2 big partys social and conservative in essence where social is retarded and slowly approaching the leftist nonsense while the conservative is primitive and religious.
    Each voting a third party emerges that has a decent bit of support,but they side with one of the big and betray the voters.
    There is lots of mini parties but since they dont know how to get to the people people wont vote and thus one of the biggest parties wins.
    This arent true numbers but lets say we have a bit over 4 million citizens,out of those you have 3 million voters and from that probably a million votes for the big parties,a small portion lets say less than 500k people vote for random small parties(there is at least 10 if not more)
    Young people already lost the hope of our country and are fleeing into germany,ireland etc mostly eu countries.
    This of course means more people die than are born which also means there is more old people than people who earn their pensions.
    We workers have now for year joked that we wont even have one since pension for many people even now is not enough for a living.
    Minimal wage is 380€(netto),a good amount of pensions is 240€ or bellow.
    Meanwhile you need more than double of 380€ to survive on your own.
    So of course nobody wants to have kids,of course those that can will move into other countries even at the cost of being treated as a stranger at first.

    So you see people that a country votes for can go totally opposite of what the people they represent want and we cant do that much.
    I see it as the more eu pushes towards making an eu country or federation the less our votes and wants matter.

  3. #23
    Halaros 536's Avatar
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    I'm sorry, but that text is messy, not coherent and unreadable. I don't even understand what are the points I should respond to and as far as I can tell, you're not making any that's relevant to the topic(the possibility and feasibility of an EU army). I doubt anyone can else can understand either.

  4. #24
    blackdragonstory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halaros 536 View Post
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    I'm sorry, but that text is messy, not coherent and unreadable. I don't even understand what are the points I should respond to and as far as I can tell, you're not making any that's relevant to the topic(the possibility and feasibility of an EU army). I doubt anyone can else can understand either.
    I tried to tell you that if we cant control our own politicians to do what is good for the people and follow the will of the people why would we expect a bunch of representatives of each country will do a better job.
    Thus it is very possible that they could try to make eu a big country or a federation and also it's very possible that they will try to create an army and misuse it later.

    I tried going in depth to show you that I am not talking out of my ass.
    But as always I write too much.

  5. #25
    Halaros 536's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdragonstory View Post
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    I tried to tell you that if we cant control our own politicians to do what is good for the people and follow the will of the people why would we expect a bunch of representatives of each country will do a better job.
    Thus it is very possible that they could try to make eu a big country or a federation and also it's very possible that they will try to create an army and misuse it later.

    I tried going in depth to show you that I am not talking out of my ass.
    But as always I write too much.
    Ok, then. So your point it that politicians don't care about what their people want. First of all that has limits and there's political damage that you cannot exceed and second none of my arguments rests on that or on them willing the good and things like that. They rest on the fact that no such will exists, that it's contrary to most countries policies, that it's not reasonable and that it's not clear how it is feasible or to any NATO members interests. I've developed all those arguments in length and it's as if you're not even reading them. I also don't think that my own posts are unreadable too, so you don't have that excuse.

  6. #26
    blackdragonstory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halaros 536 View Post
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    Ok, then. So your point it that politicians don't care about what their people want. First of all that has limits and there's political damage that you cannot exceed and second none of my arguments rests on that or on them willing the good and things like that. They rest on the fact that no such will exists, that it's contrary to most countries policies, that it's not reasonable and that it's not clear how it is feasible or to any NATO members interests. I've developed all those arguments in length and it's as if you're not even reading them. I also don't think that my own posts are unreadable too, so you don't have that excuse.
    Well,I am reading but it's just words.
    If you want to be taken more seriously especially by the people that dont know in depth about a subject you should show evidences for your claims.
    That said you can also not do that and go on with your life,it all depends on what you wanna do.

    A person says x is happening and you are like it's just symbolic,nothing is happening.
    Sometimes or maybe always you prepare everything you need before you actually do something.

    Lets make a hypothetical situation - kim pisses off trump and america and kim start their war.
    What will europe do?
    For the most part europe always sided with america if I am not mistaken and they hate russia and putin.

  7. #27
    Halaros 536's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdragonstory View Post
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    Well,I am reading but it's just words.
    If you want to be taken more seriously especially by the people that dont know in depth about a subject you should show evidences for your claims.
    That said you can also not do that and go on with your life,it all depends on what you wanna do.

    A person says x is happening and you are like it's just symbolic,nothing is happening.
    Sometimes or maybe always you prepare everything you need before you actually do something.

    Lets make a hypothetical situation - kim pisses off trump and america and kim start their war.
    What will europe do?
    For the most part europe always sided with america if I am not mistaken and they hate russia and putin.
    You're the one lacking evidence not me. You're proposing the creation of a new army, made up from different countries that have no reason to do that, that have no apparent ability in most cases to do so and that are already partaking in the strongest alliance on earth anyways. You haven't given any reason why that is to anyone interest and no evidence that this is feasible and doable.

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