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  1. #1

    Should the European Union build its own nuclear deterrent?

    Countries such as France and GB already have several hundred atomic weapons.

    Do you think given the current shift in Geopolitics the European Union as a whole should build its own nuclear weapons program to catch up with China, USA and Russia?

  2. #2
    No.1 Wasted Potential Zentos Admirer's Avatar
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    No one should build nuclear weapons..
    Kong Facts ~ 19.7.2017
    KONG FACTS ~ 19.7.2017

    Atheists are declining!

    The way Europe is going, it will be Muslim in a few generations!

    China is evangelizing on a scale this world has never seen!

    China will be biggest Christian country!

    Atheist are not even 2%!

    Atheists don't even breed!

    Science is Religion!

    Atheism hampered science!
    Kong Facts ~ One Piece Edition
    -Carrot, Sanji and Pedro are Big Mom Pirates!
    -Mihawk was talking about PHYSICAL distance across the ice!
    Time to fill my signature with more intelligent posters of MF

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    Of course they do, they pick up shit like psychology, philosophy and art, because they can't finish any decent major. They can't contribute to society in any way. Freeloaders, nothing else.
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    Grasping for air is much worse than losing half of the head.
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    Uhm, yes?
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    Big Mom's probably weaker than all the admirals, Marco and King as well.
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    Rare events are a dime a dozen.
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    True. Mihawk is stronger than both Shanks and Akainu. He can win against this version of Whitebeard with high or extreme difficulty.
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    Ha, yeah. Steven Hawking never did anything to better humanity's place on this earth.
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    There's no such thing as free education. But even if it did exist... it would be awful.
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    That CUNT SpiRo can get the fuck out. The act of watching graphic stuff like that is not in and of itself bad. Ive always had a fascination with snuff and disturbing films. If youre going to argue that im not a good person or whatever because of that, then i guess every single person who likes action movies, manga, sports or anything that contains physical combat and violence must also be the same. There is a distinction between having an INTEREST in something and ADVOCATING or APPROVING of it.
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    Akainu is stronger than Shanks though
    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
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    What do you mean do I think Vergo could beat Sanji, it already happened in the manga.

    Zoro is stronger than Vergo, was the same seat level as Pica and Zoro effortlessly put him down.

    Zoro would beat Sanji with even less difficulty than he beat Pica.
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    No swordsmen can beat Doffy. The guy can stitch his internal organs after taking a Counter Shock hit, sword wounds are a piece of cake for him. Vista's Mihawk level Haki and base stats would probably push Doffy to high-difficulty though.
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    No swordsmen can beat Doffy with a sword. Plain and simple. It's same like beating Buggy with a sword or Jozu with a sword. It's impossible, use your brain.
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    Evidence is the anime filler and common sense.
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    Doffy>Jozu>Cracker.The Manga show´s it pretty clear
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    the last battle of MF Whitebeard where he KO'ed Akainu.
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    Doffy cannot fight Mihawk for even 5 minutes.
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    Even Base Teach was able to defeat that pre-prime Shanks.
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    Akainu couldn't continue fighting while WB could. Pretty clear cut to me.
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    Yes Fujitora is one of the fastest characters in the world if you did not know well you learned something today.
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    Zoro>Vergo>Smoker>Sanji
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    Akainu, by some luck, didn't fall into the sea, he probably caught a piece of ground and cling onto it until he regained his consciousness.
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    Also we know that BM already defeated Kaido at least once or even twice.
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    So OuHon's weight is already HEAVIER than Duke Hyou's.
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    No, it has nothing to do with 'imports' or whatever. Half the fault falls on the one being rapped rather than the one rapping. I mean, it's like putting a tasty pizza with mayo on it in front of the hungry you, switch on the quite music, prepare the drinks, and yet ask you no to eat it.
    Quote Originally Posted by DreX View Post
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    okey.
    So, Shanks is the protege of the PK? and Mihawk is the protege of the Apes king ? both of them were on the same ship idiot, not even a hint on who Roger preferred from the both in the manga, and when did i fucking say that Shanks has no potential, didn't even say that he falls to Mihawk in that aspect, i'm merely saying that we can say who.

    Monkey, Mihawk said that he ain't fighting Shanks in that specific meeting of their, and it was in a sarcastic way of denying because he didn't come for fighting unlike usual, he came for showing him Luffy's poster.
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    Every CoA is hardening but not every hardening is CoA
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    Retard, Shanks lost deliberately to that marine snake. Why would he want to heal his lost arm.
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    I understand you want to pride yourself with my sayings in ur sig but don't overdo it, ur sig reeks shit so it doesn't stand to it.
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    Of course my sig reeks of shit when i have you in my sig.
    DreX "making fun" of serious religion Pastafarianism..

  3. #3
    Halaros 536's Avatar
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    The EU does not have a common army and will not have one any time soon, much less a nuclear weapons program. How would that even work? Would other states, aside from France, start building nuclear weapons, or will France submit control of it's nuclear arsenal to the European Commission for some retarded reason? The EU is not something similar to the US, it's not a federation. It's many different, historically rooted nations.

  4. #4
    blackdragonstory's Avatar
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    Well,I as someone who lives in a country which is part of eu look at eu as just something that ties us together and makes it easier to travel and be safe.
    I think it is wrong for such an establishment to make their own nuclear bombs like they are some sort of country.
    We dont elect people who run eu and their power is far greater than that of a single country politicians and thus the power restrictions must be higher.
    Besides that,what would even be the point of having this weapons in the first place?
    I once watched a vid of carl saegan where he said the amount of weapons we have far outnumbers our needs for them.
    It's sort of like bringing a 10 bazookas to a knife fight.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Halaros 536 View Post
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    The EU does not have a common army and will not have one any time soon, much less a nuclear weapons program. How would that even work? Would other states, aside from France, start building nuclear weapons, or will France submit control of it's nuclear arsenal to the European Commission for some retarded reason? The EU is not something similar to the US, it's not a federation. It's many different, historically rooted nations.
    That is also scary.
    The main dude of eu would like an eu army and it's only a matter of time imho if he succeeded where they would get cocky and try to push around america and russian and boom we have another world war.

  5. #5
    Halaros 536's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdragonstory View Post
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    That is also scary.
    The main dude of eu would like an eu army and it's only a matter of time imho if he succeeded where they would get cocky and try to push around america and russian and boom we have another world war.
    Who is the main dude? Are you talking about Juncker? He has no real political power and nobody actually cares about him. You don't seem to realize how things work in the EU. The power resides in the elected heads of state of individual countries. Again, the EU is a bunch of nations.

    The scenario you're proposing is not realistic at all. For starters, as I said there's no real prospect of an EU army. EU doesn't have a common defense policy and it won't have one, cause each nation is different, has different goals, defense budgets etc. They are nations, with independent government and they won't surrender sovereignty. In addition, EU's strategic policy is not that. It is to rely on NATO for protection. These grand strategic paths don't change suddenly because a powerless drunkard said so. Second of all, an army is not something that you just decide and build. It'd take decades for the EU to build something cohesive, functional, operating. And for that to be effective it'd take even more time and to be a threat to the US is a joke. Third, even if the EU got an army it'd have no reason to start a World War. We've had communist regimes for decades with countless nuclear weapons and we didn't have a World War.

    tl;dr it's not happening
    Last edited by Halaros 536; 05-27-2018 at 09:10 PM.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Halaros 536 View Post
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    Who is the main dude? Are you talking about Juncker? He has no real political power and nobody actually cares about him. You don't seem to realize how things work in the EU. The power resides in the elected heads of state of individual countries. Again, the EU is a bunch of nations.

    The scenario you're proposing is not realistic at all. For starters, as I said there's no real prospect of an EU army. EU doesn't have a common defense policy and it won't have ονε, cause εαψη nation is different, has different goals, defense budgets etc. They are nations, with independent government and they won't surrender sovereignty. In addition, EU's strategic policy is not that. It is to rely on NATO for protection. These grand strategic paths don't change suddenly because a powerless drunkard said so. Second of all, an army is not something that you just decide and build. It'd take decades for the EU to build something cohesive, functional, operating. And for that to be effective it'd take even more time and to be a threat to the US is a joke. Third, even if the EU got an army it'd have no reason to start a World War. We've had communist regimes for decades with countless nuclear weapons and we didn't have a World War.

    tl;dr it's not happening
    Are you implying the EU is a communist regime?

  7. #7
    blackdragonstory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halaros 536 View Post
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    Who is the main dude? Are you talking about Juncker? He has no real political power and nobody actually cares about him. You don't seem to realize how things work in the EU. The power resides in the elected heads of state of individual countries. Again, the EU is a bunch of nations.

    The scenario you're proposing is not realistic at all. For starters, as I said there's no real prospect of an EU army. EU doesn't have a common defense policy and it won't have, cause it's nation is different has different goals, defense budgets etc. They are nations, with independent government and they won't surrender sovereignty. In addition, EU's strategic policy is not that. It is to rely on NATO for protection. These grand strategic paths don't change suddenly because a powerless drunkard said so. Second of all, an army is not something that you just decide and build. It'd take decades for the EU to build something cohesive, functional, operating. And for that to be effective it'd take even more time and to be a threat to the US is a joke. Third, even if the EU got an army it'd have no reason to start a World War. We've had communist regimes for decades with countless nuclear weapons and we didn't have a World War.

    tl;dr it's not happening
    I guess I had a wrong impression.
    I used to watch videos about political issues and I remember watching a vid about a dude striving for a eu army.
    That is where my opinion came off.

    Many countries took euro as their currency,isnt that losing monetary sovereignty ?
    Maybe not now,but slowly we might be going towards a point where we are just a big country called eu.

    Is it that hard to make an army?
    Just write a law where each country must provide a troupe or more of willing soldiers every 2-3 years who will do idk what exactly right now but lets call it protect europe countries from non eu countries and fill in where needed.
    Who knows.
    It wont happen asap,but it is dangerous to allow them to take the path of creating weapons.

    Oh and btw for war you only need weapons with range,not soldiers/army.

  8. #8
    Halaros 536's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdragonstory View Post
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    I guess I had a wrong impression.
    I used to watch videos about political issues and I remember watching a vid about a dude striving for a eu army.
    That is where my opinion came off.

    Many countries took euro as their currency,isnt that losing monetary sovereignty ?
    Maybe not now,but slowly we might be going towards a point where we are just a big country called eu.

    Is it that hard to make an army?
    Just write a law where each country must provide a troupe or more of willing soldiers every 2-3 years who will do idk what exactly right now but lets call it protect europe countries from non eu countries and fill in where needed.
    Who knows.
    It wont happen asap,but it is dangerous to allow them to take the path of creating weapons.

    Oh and btw for war you only need weapons with range,not soldiers/army.
    You're probably referring to Juncker. He says a lot of stuff, but he doesn't have real power.

    Eurozone countries gave up their monetary sovereignty. That's because it is a union with financial purposes. Other than that, they are sovereign countries with their own budgets and policies, laws, governments. If you somehow in the future have something more resembling a federation like that of the US, then you can talk about even deeper unifications like a common army.

    Yes it is that hard to make an army, it takes really long. For now the only relly important army is that of France (GB is exiting the EU). I remind you that the French and the British couldn't even attack Libya properly and they needed the US to come. You don't seem to realize what that involves. European armies in general are crap. Now trying to unify them or parts of them is a huge task of it's own and taking that and trying to build with that something comparable to the US' army is laughable.

    Oh yeah, the "just write a law solution". Who's gonna write a law? The Pope? Or all those countries that have no reason to try and lose their national sovereignty for all the reasons that I have explained? As far as protecting Europe is concerned, everyone who has a reason to worry is in NATO. Who's gonna provide troupes for an army that's not their own, when most European countries don't even spend much on their national defense budget anyways and have much more pressing issues? Europe doesn't care much about armies in the first place. National armies. And you tell me they are gonna start spending and working to build an army that they won't even be in control of as independent states. Those are sci - fi scenarios and not very good ones.

    You need weapons with range to do what? What are weapons of range? Missiles? You're gonna have an army comprising of missiles? Whose missiles? You're gonna send them from where to where? FYI no war ever has been won without a real land army. What about navy? I'm sorry to say it, but you don't seem to know anything on these issues and you don't seem to be thinking at the very least either.
    Last edited by Halaros 536; 05-27-2018 at 09:08 PM.

  9. #9
    The EU isn't a nation so this idea doesn't really make sense to me.
    No.​

  10. #10
    blackdragonstory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halaros 536 View Post
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    You're probably referring to Juncker. He says a lot of stuff, but he doesn't have real power.

    Eurozone countries gave up their monetary sovereignty. That's because it is a union with financial purposes. Other than that, they are sovereign countries with their own budgets and policies, laws, governments. If you somehow in the future have something more resembling a federation like that of the US, then you can talk about even deeper unifications like a common army.

    Yes it is that hard to make an army, it takes really long. For now the only relly important army is that of France (GB is exiting the EU). I remind you that the French and the British couldn't even attack Libya properly and they needed the US to come. You don't seem to realize what that involves. European armies in general are crap. Now trying to unify them or parts of them is a huge task of it's own and taking that and trying to build with that something comparable to the US' army is laughable.

    Oh yeah, the "just write a law solution". Who's gonna write a law? The Pope? Or all those countries that have no reason to try and lose their national sovereignty for all the reasons that I have explained? As far as protecting Europe is concerned, everyone who has a reason to worry is in NATO. Who's gonna provide troupes for an army that's not their own, when most European countries don't even spend much on their national defense budget anyways and have much more pressing issues? Europe doesn't care much about armies in the first place. National armies. And you tell me they are gonna start spending and working to build an army that they won't even be in control of as independent states. Those are sci - fi scenarios and not very good ones.

    You need weapons with range to do what? What are weapons of range? Missiles? You're gonna have an army comprising of missiles? Whose missiles? You're gonna send them from where to where? FYI no war ever has been won without a real land army. What about navy? I'm sorry to say it, but you don't seem to know anything on these issues and you don't seem to be thinking at the very least either.
    Well,what happens when an eu country tries to leave and has debts?
    Why hasn't gb replaced pound with euro?
    Also if eu somehow falls appart what will happen?

    The reason I fear things won't be so nice as you present is because we don't really have that much control over our representatives.
    They try to implement everything eu tells them and we have to go to referendums for every single issue.
    We are stuck with this politicians for 4 years after they are elected.

    Anyways maybe I am looking too far into the future.

  11. #11
    Magistrate of Hentai Ccrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halaros 536 View Post
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    For starters, as I said there's no real prospect of an EU army.
    you must live in a fairy tale


  12. #12
    The Dragon of Katsurahama Nordlending's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ccrack View Post
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    you must live in a fairy tale
    EU is not an military alliance. Why would they need armies?
    ​​

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Nordlending View Post
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    EU is not an military alliance. Why would they need armies?
    the EU states have around 1.5 million man military power. if they decide to create a military alliance like they did a economical one they suddenly would have it

  14. #14
    Magistrate of Hentai Ccrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordlending View Post
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    EU is not an military alliance. Why would they need armies?
    good question, why do they want an army?

    the EU was apparently just a trading block, so why do they shove laws on to other countries, shuffle around vast ammounts of wealth with no accountability and dish out harsh punishments for anyone that dosnt fall in line?


  15. #15
    Cafe Conqueror X's Avatar
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    my philosophy is that the more weapons there are, the more issues that are solved.


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  16. #16
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  17. #17
    blackdragonstory's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ink Spot View Post
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    Is there any sort of polls that showed how many agreed with farage and how many didnt?

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdragonstory View Post
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    Is there any sort of polls that showed how many agreed with farage and how many didnt?
    sorry, i don't know of any such polls, but the fact that the army has been pushed for years, and that it still doesn't exists tells me the majority don't want it.

  19. #19
    Halaros 536's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blackdragonstory View Post
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    Well,what happens when an eu country tries to leave and has debts?
    Why hasn't gb replaced pound with euro?
    Also if eu somehow falls appart what will happen?

    The reason I fear things won't be so nice as you present is because we don't really have that much control over our representatives.
    They try to implement everything eu tells them and we have to go to referendums for every single issue.
    We are stuck with this politicians for 4 years after they are elected.

    Anyways maybe I am looking too far into the future.
    You're being too vague, possibly because you don't have enough knowledge. What does "too much control" mean and how does it compare to surrendering the sovereignty of your military? You're not giving any evidence. Just so you know even on economic matters France ignores the rules for the deficits for example, bankrupt Greece who's under tight controls can ignore the rules and did increase it's expenses for defense purposes and we have a fucking memorandum. Even Schengen rules get ignored and countries that don't want to take people do not, Hungary and Poland (Poland is one of the very few with a capable army) do what they want etc. And you say that these countries will surrender parts of their armies to build a new army, not controlled by them, that nobody knows how and when and if will ever be effective while they are part of the strongest military alliance, why?

    Of course you ignored all the other counter arguments I gave.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ccrack View Post
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    you must live in a fairy tale
    You must live in the no argument land, cause you haven't given any arguments. I've given plenty of reasons why this project will never be realized and you've presented no evidence for your case. I understand that not everyone is capable of arguing effectively and you're evidently in that category, but make an effort at least.
    Last edited by Halaros 536; 05-29-2018 at 10:26 PM.

  20. #20
    Magistrate of Hentai Ccrack's Avatar
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    @Halaros 536 its allready happening. people have seen it comming for years. i have no intrest in holding the hand of a blind person

    https://www.ukcolumn.org/series/eu-military-unification


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