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  1. #1

    Our inconsistency re; stats

    Some of us seem to base opinions around a stats, for eg duel wise, Tou beating Duke, Ouki being slightly above Renpa but barely below Moubu etc. If that's the case, why don't any of us seem to put Gohoumei ahead of Ousen, Renpa and Ouki as a pure strategist? Why do we think Ousen (97) can exchange wits with Riboku (100) and win?

    Using that logic, there seems to be an inconsistency there.

  2. #2
    I dont think its only about stats but also about overall portrayel, hype and feats...

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Naki View Post
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    I dont think its only about stats but also about overall portrayel, hype and feats...
    But then one could argue, what feats has Tou/Gaimou done to put them above Duke or equal to Renpa in Gaimou's case?

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    But then one could argue, what feats has Tou/Gaimou done to put them above Duke or equal to Renpa in Gaimou's case?
    What feats does Renpa have that put him above Gaimou, actually? Renpa has done very little fighting on panel.

    Shin directly compared their blows, that comparison was later backed up by stats, too. So, it's pretty logical to put them on a similar level.

    Tou sent Houken flying after getting pissed because of Ouki being stabbed, without stats it would be difficult to say if he's above or below Duke Hyou, but it was obvious since the start that he's supposed to be very strong. Also, Ouki's statement. I don't see Rinko sending Houken flying for examle, so Tou is portrayed to be a fair bit above him based on feats and hype alone.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirao View Post
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    Tou sent Houken flying after getting pissed because of Ouki being stabbed,
    this never happened

    he did block hou ken's attack tho, which is still kinda impressive
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    But then one could argue, what feats has Tou/Gaimou done to put them above Duke or equal to Renpa in Gaimou's case?
    Tou fodderized a Rinko level guy that was inverse only known for beeing a martial general without problem. On the other hand what did Duke do to show hes way more impressive fighting wise than Tou? At the end of the day he was fodderized by Houken, only thing stood out was his will and weight in that fight.

    and Renpa only clashed with a boulder thats noteworthy

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
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    this never happened

    he did block hou ken's attack tho, which is still kinda impressive


    Looks like he was sent flying to me.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirao View Post
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    Looks like he was sent flying to me.
    i don't see how

    seems clear to me that he was simply dodging the herd of troops that just bum rushed him after tou blocked his attack

    if tou attacked him we would've seen the motion of it. instead we got the motion of troops rushing in.
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  9. #9
    The anime has Houken being blasted away if that means anything. Hara does seem to have drawn something like that.

    Quote Originally Posted by Naki View Post
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    Tou fodderized a Rinko level guy that was inverse only known for beeing a martial general without problem. On the other hand what did Duke do to show hes way more impressive fighting wise than Tou? At the end of the day he was fodderized by Houken, only thing stood out was his will and weight in that fight.

    and Renpa only clashed with a boulder thats noteworthy
    Duke was hyped as one of the very best fighters tbf, which Tou has never (yet). I also put Tou ahead btw, but I do that largely because of the stats hence the thread.

    Quote Originally Posted by Pirao View Post
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    What feats does Renpa have that put him above Gaimou, actually? Renpa has done very little fighting on panel.

    Shin directly compared their blows, that comparison was later backed up by stats, too. So, it's pretty logical to put them on a similar level.

    Tou sent Houken flying after getting pissed because of Ouki being stabbed, without stats it would be difficult to say if he's above or below Duke Hyou, but it was obvious since the start that he's supposed to be very strong. Also, Ouki's statement. I don't see Rinko sending Houken flying for examle, so Tou is portrayed to be a fair bit above him based on feats and hype alone.
    Renpa was said to have duelled Ouki to a standstill.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Renpa was said to have duelled Ouki to a standstill.
    When?

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    The anime has Houken being blasted away if that means anything. Hara does seem to have drawn something like that.


    Duke was hyped as one of the very best fighters tbf, which Tou has never (yet). I also put Tou ahead btw, but I do that largely because of the stats hence the thread.


    Renpa was said to have duelled Ouki to a standstill.
    Well Duke is one of the best fighters. He did great against Houken ok, but at the end he was completely overwhelmed. I dont know why you think Tou has shown anything that puts him on that level, when he actually fodderized Rinbukun and until today never was tested to all his extend.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    The anime has Houken being blasted away if that means anything. Hara does seem to have drawn something like that.
    guess i was wrong. still, you'd imagine more emphasis would be put on something like that.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Some of us seem to base opinions around a stats, for eg duel wise, Tou beating Duke, Ouki being slightly above Renpa but barely below Moubu etc. If that's the case, why don't any of us seem to put Gohoumei ahead of Ousen, Renpa and Ouki as a pure strategist? Why do we think Ousen (97) can exchange wits with Riboku (100) and win?

    Using that logic, there seems to be an inconsistency there.
    People think Ousen can outwit Riboku with the same quality of generals working under them and the same army quality/quantity ?

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Pirao View Post
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    When?
    I think it was when Shin first saw Renpa in person. I would look but i can't see whole page chapters anymore now that kissmanga blocks adblock.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    I think it was when Shin first saw Renpa in person. I would look but i can't see whole page chapters anymore now that kissmanga blocks adblock.


    Is this what you mean?

    He said "Fought even general Ouki to a standstill", that doesn't mean in a duel necessarily.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aliasniamor View Post
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    People think Ousen can outwit Riboku with the same quality of generals working under them and the same army quality/quantity ?
    Many people think Riboku sucks and can't do anything without Houken despite his stats, yeah.

  16. #16
    easy question, cuz feats

    GHM's a constant loser while Ousen has been shown to do more with less. I tend to rely on stats when both parties are lacking in solid feats

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  17. #17
    I think it's easiest with strength because it's the most cut and dry, if you're discussing a duel then you can look towards their stat to get a decent idea on their strength and be able to give benefit of the doubt in certain situations.

    For discussing an overall war it's a much different beast since there are too many x-factors on the table to just look at intelligence to determine the outcome. Weight, destructive force, instinct, leadership, and so forth all can play just as big roles. Also, there are many different fields and ways that intelligence can be applied.

  18. #18
    Knight of Elegance Aliasniamor's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirao View Post
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    Many people think Riboku sucks and can't do anything without Houken despite his stats, yeah.
    Crazy people

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Some of us seem to base opinions around a stats, for eg duel wise, Tou beating Duke, Ouki being slightly above Renpa but barely below Moubu etc. If that's the case, why don't any of us seem to put Gohoumei ahead of Ousen, Renpa and Ouki as a pure strategist? Why do we think Ousen (97) can exchange wits with Riboku (100) and win?
    Using that logic, there seems to be an inconsistency there.
    Of course, there's no question that the stats are frequently inconsistent, and people shouldn't be relying on them. That said, there's no problem here, as Ousen's 97 and Riboku's 100 are their knowledge stat. There is no stat for strategic ability.
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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by barreltheif View Post
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    Of course, there's no question that the stats are frequently inconsistent, and people shouldn't be relying on them. That said, there's no problem here, as Ousen's 97 and Riboku's 100 are their knowledge stat. There is no stat for strategic ability.
    the knowledge stat is: "knowledge of warfare & strategy"

    this implies that stat is a gauge of their overall strategical acumen and understanding of warfare
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