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  1. #1
    baste Hunterchad/Jobro Wi S. Kennedeh's Avatar
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    Is There Such A Thing As Hate Speech?

    Or can it just be categorized as free speech?

  2. #2
    Ichiryuu's Avatar
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    I'd consider you hate speech if you call out for violence.

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  3. #3
    Cafe Conqueror X's Avatar
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    Well, if the intent is behind it is full of hatred and violence, it's not great.


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  4. #4
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    dum Q, B.


  5. #5

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    Speech that involves hate=hate speech

    You can argue that it's a form of free speech but it's still hate speech.

  6. #6
    See you in the desert... Makenzye's Avatar
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    It would be categorized under free speech, but still it's hate speech. Same way as pep talks, lectures, preaching, and roasting fall under free speech.

  7. #7
    free speech stops where a call to violence is implied or happening, as well as the denial or relativization of happened crimes

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by R View Post
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    free speech stops where a call to violence is implied or happening,
    Free speech stops when violence ACTUALLY happens, not when there’s a chance that it MIGHT happen. You can’t punish a civilian for something they MIGHT do. Jesus Christ.

    as well as the denial or relativization of happened crimes
    So having an unpopular/wacky opinion is now punishable?

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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    Free speech stops when violence ACTUALLY happens, not when there’s a chance that it MIGHT happen. You can’t punish a civilian for something they MIGHT do. Jesus Christ.



    So having an unpopular/wacky opinion is now punishable?
    If an actual crime happens as a result of calls to violence or similar things both the perpetrator and the agitator have to face charges. If a call to violence may cause someone to become a perpetrator the agitators speech has to be removed. Calling to violence does not fall under free speech. It never will.

    Denying things like the holocaust or confirmed crimes against humanity is not having a wacky opinion. As such people who engage in such thinking should be under surveillance and their possibility to spread their ideological view limited.

  10. #10
    Of course there's hatespeech, and of course it's free speech. But even freedom should have limits.
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  11. #11
    Red Hero Rax's Avatar
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    Only if you're a pussy.



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  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by R View Post
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    If an actual crime happens as a result of calls to violence or similar things both the perpetrator and the agitator have to face charges.
    No, the only perpetrator is the agitator. The person who made noises with their mouth hole didn’t commit any crime. Give me one good reason why what you’re advocating isn’t an absolutely draconian course of action.

    A person willing to commit heinous crimes will do it with or without an “agitator.”

    If a call to violence may cause someone to become a perpetrator the agitators speech has to be removed. Calling to violence does not fall under free speech. It never will.
    That’s not free speech. You should face no legal retaliation for having thoughts. That’s third world barbarism.

    Denying things like the holocaust or confirmed crimes against humanity is not having a wacky opinion. As such people who engage in such thinking should be under surveillance and their possibility to spread their ideological view limited.
    It’s always about the Holocaust with you krauts.

    Is your IQ too low to realize that you’re legitimizing Holocaust deniers by censoring them?

    You're turning them into martyrs, not pariahs.

    This is why anti-Jewish sentiments are rising across Europe.

    You're better off ignoring opinions like that.

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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    No, the only perpetrator is the agitator. The person who made noises with their mouth hole didn’t commit any crime. Give me one good reason why what you’re advocating isn’t an absolutely draconian course of action.

    A person willing to commit heinous crimes will do it with or without an “agitator.”



    That’s not free speech. You should face no legal retaliation for having thoughts. That’s third world barbarism.



    It’s always about the Holocaust with you krauts.

    Is your IQ too low to realize that you’re legitimizing Holocaust deniers by censoring them?

    You're turning them into martyrs, not pariahs.

    This is why anti-Jewish sentiments are rising across Europe.

    You're better off ignoring opinions like that.
    The agitator is a key part of the crime, that is correct. As such he has to be punished comparable if not harder than the person who actually commited the crime. Words are not only means of exchanging syllabels. They are used as a crucial instrument of agitation and incitation to violence. Manipulating via words is the most prominent form of propaganda, which inherently always carries a goal.

    I do not understand why you see it as draconian when both the actual physical perpetrator as well as the agitator are to be punished.

    No one faces legal charges vor having thoughts. This would be a blatant intervention in your basic rights.
    However if you express, formulate, propagate thoughts who are not covered by the principle of law, you are no longer "having thoughts" but are actively pushing a narrative which is either against the law or - in a broader terms - against humanity as a whole.

    No one legitimizes people by censoring them. Instead we prevent the dangerous spread of Nazi Propaganda. Of course inside their own idelogical group this may be seen different. But red lines such as this do not deserve room for discussion. They deserve punishment in the harshest sense the law allows us to. An opinion does not calls for action.

    Nazi propaganda does. And needs to be fought.

    Same goes for extreme leftist Propaganda.

    Or any other form of ideologicaly blindes, and calling for violent actions.

  14. #14
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R View Post
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    free speech stops where a call to violence is implied or happening, as well as the denial or relativization of happened crimes
    I can sort of understand the first one

    The second makes absolutely no sense to me, at least as a justification to deny free speech

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by R View Post
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    The agitator is a key part of the crime, that is correct. As such he has to be punished comparable if not harder than the person who actually commited the crime. Words are not only means of exchanging syllabels. They are used as a crucial instrument of agitation and incitation to violence. Manipulating via words is the most prominent form of propaganda, which inherently always carries a goal.

    I do not understand why you see it as draconian when both the actual physical perpetrator as well as the agitator are to be punished.

    No one faces legal charges vor having thoughts. This would be a blatant intervention in your basic rights.
    However if you express, formulate, propagate thoughts who are not covered by the principle of law, you are no longer "having thoughts" but are actively pushing a narrative which is either against the law or - in a broader terms - against humanity as a whole.

    No one legitimizes people by censoring them. Instead we prevent the dangerous spread of Nazi Propaganda. Of course inside their own idelogical group this may be seen different. But red lines such as this do not deserve room for discussion. They deserve punishment in the harshest sense the law allows us to. An opinion does not calls for action.

    Nazi propaganda does. And needs to be fought.

    Same goes for extreme leftist Propaganda.

    Or any other form of ideologicaly blindes, and calling for violent actions.

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  16. #16
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R View Post
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    No one faces legal charges vor having thoughts. This would be a blatant intervention in your basic rights.
    However if you express, formulate, propagate thoughts who are not covered by the principle of law, you are no longer "having thoughts" but are actively pushing a narrative which is either against the law or - in a broader terms - against humanity as a whole.
    "Relax, we don't punish thought crime! That would be silly"

    "We just punish people for saying anything that the state doesn't agree with"


  17. #17
    the only time your free speech is an issue is something like yelling fire in a theater when there is none.
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    I must say i am baffled by the fact that someone would date Tifa, or that someone like Tifa is able to put a dude in a friendzone. Like are you really so depleted on the good looking girls? In my country no one would ever even look at her twice. We have 2/1 (Girl/Boy) ratio, and most of the girls are decent looking or hot. We have obese girls but they mostly die alone because even the ugly looking dudes can find a good looking girl if they are just not poor as fuck..
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    2:1 ratio and you still can't get any ass? Damn.

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    Dammit I deleted that so I could be saved from your rebuttal.

    I regret ever giving you the opportunity to be more right about anything.
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    What truth? The fact that you're an annoying dimwit? Most of your posts are cringe. Nothing worse than a cocky asshole who gets proven wrong and lies to save face. The fact that you have a gold bar pretty much exemplifies that rep is worthless. You are the face of awful modern day TMF posters. SpiRo back into whatever cave you crawled out of, please.
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  18. #18
    Magistrate of Hentai Ccrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R View Post
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    Denying things like the holocaust or confirmed crimes against humanity is not having a wacky opinion. As such people who engage in such thinking should be under surveillance and their possibility to spread their ideological view limited.
    dont question the narrative or you will end up in prison like a bad little goy


  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra View Post
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    "Relax, we don't punish thought crime! That would be silly"

    "We just punish people for saying anything that the state doesn't agree with"

    This is a specific topic. The holocaust, as it was an actual crime against humanity and is an actual law in germany.

    Other things - such as stating you are against group A B C for reason 1 2 3 is covered by free speech, regardless how the governments attitude is towards the matter.

    You of course have to face a possible media coverage and "shitstorm". But it aint a matter of law.

    -

    It becomes a matter of law when you not only state you hate group A B C for reason 1 2 3 but in addition states/imply you were okay with if thing XYZ happens to them (negative, possible crime related things obviously) - or ask others to do these things.

    Then yes, the state (in the form of the justice department) does not agree with it.

    Which is perfectly fine and you already stated that you at least can agree to the reasoning behind this.

  20. #20
    Magistrate of Hentai Ccrack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by R View Post
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    This is a specific topic. The holocaust, as it was an actual crime against humanity and is an actual law in germany.
    the genocide the jews are commiting against the palestinians is a crime against humanity. if you deny that you deserve to get sent to jail and put on a surveillance watchlist for the rest of your life


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