Page 3 of 3 FirstFirst 123
Results 41 to 45 of 45

Thread: Pit bulls

  1. #41
    Ꭱed Ꮗater Ɗreams WiskÓšinn's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2017
    drug cartel hostage bunker
    so we agree to put a nation wide ban on these vicious things


  2. #42
    Nuclear Big Boss's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Outer Heaven
    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    What's your opinion on this breed? I think they are far too aggressive and dangerous and every city should pursue banning them.
    subtle black hate thread

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Jörmungandr View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Pit bulls are agressive, regardless of the owner. Even the most experienced trainers can't prevent the natural born killers from following their instincts. Making them house pets is simply stupid.
    Right, that's why the most experienced trainers' pit bulls do so well compared to other dogs. All dogs can bite you're stupid if you think otherwise.

  4. #44
    Retired Old Timer Halaros 536's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Last edited by Halaros 536; 05-27-2018 at 10:46 PM.

  5. #45
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Quote Originally Posted by Reality View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    How is it unreliable?

    Requirements to enter test:
    The Applicant must be at least 21 years of age and have five years of current experience in dogs. This should include activity in one, or preferably more, of the following:

    Dog Grooming
    Schutzhund (IPO)
    Search and Rescue
    Veterinary Assistant
    Other dog-related activities

    Notice that when a responsible dog owner is given a pit bull it does extremely well regardless of it's biology that makes it "aggressive".

    Your other sources are fine but like every other study that can only use reported incidents of course big dogs like pit bulls are going to be the most reported, smaller dogs won't do nearly as much damage that need reporting.

    As for the ban that "worked" there were never even any mauling that occurred before to prompt the ban, they put a ban on pits because of media. So yeah, pit bulls being allowed before the ban resulted in no bites inside that city so you're not making a strong case for banning pits and it doesn't prove that it works.
    Test Criticisms
    Anyone with a superficial understanding of scientific method and what constitutes good science, should be able to immediately recognize the inherent problems with this test.

    First and foremost is the issue of what exactly does the test measure? The ATTS website claims to measure stability, shyness, aggressiveness, friendliness, protectiveness, self-preservation. In theory, the testers consider the following during the test:
    The breed of the dog (hereditary purpose)
    The training the dog has received
    The dog’s age
    The dog’s gender
    Whether it has been spayed or neutered
    The dog’s physical health (dog in season)
    Whether it is a house dog or kennel dog
    Yet the pit bull advocates present the stats in such a way as to imply that higher scores equal less aggression and lower scores equal more aggression. According to Herkstroeter, “Just because a certain percentage of dogs in a certain breed fail, this does not necessarily indicate aggression. Dogs fail for other reasons, such as strong avoidance. If you look at our statistics just from a perspective of aggression or non-aggression, they can be very misleading.” Herkstroeter states that 95% of the dogs that fail, do so because they lack confidence to approach the weirdly dressed stranger or walk on the strange surface. The remaining 5% fail because they take longer than 45 seconds to recover from the gunshot or the umbrella. Still pit bull advocates continue to distort the meaning of the test.

    Second, as per ATTS website: "Comparing scores with other dogs is not a good idea" and the test "takes into consideration each breed's inherent tendencies". Cocker spaniels are evaluated against a cocker spaniel standard, not against german shepherds (or at least in theory, they are not supposed to), yet pit bull advocates would have you believe that all dogs are evaluated against one another.

    The third troubling aspect of this test is not only the lack of a random sample but what appears to be pit bull advocates openly conspiring to groom test candidates and cherry pick only those individual dogs that are likely to pass. This is a conscious decision done for the sole purpose of inflating the scores to improve the pit bull's image.

    The fourth major problem is in the inherent bias of the testers. Pit bull owners, breeders and advocates are in the position to pass or fail dogs that are under heavy criticism for what their critics perceive as their innate viciousness. As you will see, the testers have much discretion and a vested interest in the outcomes of the tests and they do not apply the rules fairly or consistently. There is no quality control to ensure that the testers are consistent in how they grade dogs' behavior.

    Fifth, the test acknowledges that breed of dog (hereditary of purpose) is factored into the dog's performance and score, yet dogs are not tested in the presence of other dogs. This is especially critical with dogs that were bred to fight.

    Sixth, the ATTS apparently does not require papers for purebred dogs. It seems that you can report any breed you like and do not need to provide any registry papers to prove it. One thing I find especially interesting is the flexibility around the issue of purity in pit bulls. When pit bulls attack, they are mixes but when they pass the ATTS, they are purebred, no questions asked. Just last week, Drayton Michaels made a point to say that most pit bulls were in fact not purebred pit bulls. This is another favored defense tactic when pit bull attacks hit the news media. In my experience reading all of the pit bull forums for ATTS information, discussion about the test is non-existent among the demographic. This group of pit bull owners is obsessed with bloodlines and pedigrees, and these dogmen do not even broach the subject of temperament testing.

    Seventh, the handlers are familiar with the test, they not only know what to expect, they practice it with their dogs. In the real world, things don't work out that way and much of a dog's reaction can be based on the handler's reaction to the real world "stressful" events.

    Eighth, The American Temperament Testing Society is not an impartial, scientific organization discovering "truth". They openly state their position on their website:
    "Because of breed-specific dog legislation and negative publicity associated with many breeds of dogs, temperament testing has assumed an important role for today's dog fancier. The ATTS Temperament Test provides breeders a means for evaluating temperament and gives pet owners insight into their dog's behavior. It can have an impact on breeding programs and in educating owners about their dog's behavioral strengths and weaknesses as well as providing a positive influence on dog legislation."

    Junk Science
    The test and the testers discriminate against timidity and favor courage and aggression, although they do not openly admit to this. The test does not measure any exact personality trait that can be quantified. In theory, the test measures the dogs' responses to random events, (sometimes heavily practiced random events) and theoretically, the testers are to evaluate dogs within their own breed and not against other breeds. It will become obvious to the reader that the testers are inconsistent with their application of the testing guidelines. In addition, these random events have little to do with the real world events. The organization, the test, the testers and the testees are all motivated by powerful forces, such as BSL and will do anything to achieve their desired outcomes. The test looks good in theory but the humans that apply the theory are self interested and therefore fallible. That fallibility produces unscientific results.

    The ATTS temperament test is scientifically invalid and unreliable. The test can not reliably predict how a dog will behave in the real world.

    Pit bull apologists love to cite beloved breeds of dogs who score lower than the APBT. But the reality is collie owners are not spending hours online seeking advice from other collie owners on how to pass the test, or spending a year preparing their dogs for this test. Collie mix owners are not quizzing testers about whether or not their dogs can slip in under the radar as purebreds. Collie owners are not prescreening their dogs. Collie owners are not hiring ATTS experienced dog handlers to test their dogs. Collie owners are not cherry picking only those candidates that they think will pass the test. If they did, their breed would score higher than 79.4%. Any breed would do better under these artificial conditions. But collie owners don't view their dogs as a cult religion and the ATTS as a bible. Most people owning normal breeds of dogs view this test as a fun way to spend the morning with their dogs. The pit bull community views this test as a get out jail free card. There is a strong push by pit bull advocates to have dogs who have passed the ATTS eligible for home owners insurance and access to housing that specifically excludes certain breeds. Take for example the military ban on pit bulls, rottweilers and others. In the instance of the Marines, owners of these dogs had 60 calendar days to successfully pass a "nationally recognized temperament test." The City of San Francisco, which has a mandatory pit bull sterilization law, allows pit bulls that pass the ATTS to breed (Section 44.1).
    I'll just leave this here


Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts