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  1. #1

    Is erina a mary sue?

    Yes or no

  2. #2
    Cafe Conqueror X's Avatar
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    Yeah, there isn't really a ton that she does wrong.


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  3. #3
    in regards to cooking but she's socially awkward at life otherwise, not everything comes to her naturally then so probably not

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  4. #4
    With cooking kind of. But everything else nope.

  5. #5
    See you in the desert... Makenzye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    in regards to cooking but she's socially awkward at life otherwise, not everything comes to her naturally then so probably not
    I think that sorta makes her a Mary Sue, though. Not exactly the easiest to get along with but everybody loves her and lavishes upon her skill anyway? And I think we're supposed to enjoy the "flaws" she does possess.


    Then again, I might just be dumping on a character I don't like.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Makenzye View Post
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    I think that sorta makes her a Mary Sue, though. Not exactly the easiest to get along with but everybody loves her and lavishes upon her skill anyway? And I think we're supposed to enjoy the "flaws" she does possess.


    Then again, I might just be dumping on a character I don't like.
    still don't see how that makes her a Mary Sue when she was born and bred that way since birth and she's so narrowly focused skill wise in the bigger picture. might be a bad comparison but it's like calling T'Challa a Gary Stu for being such a good warrior

    and people "liking" her in verse has nothing to do with it lol

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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    still don't see how that makes her a Mary Sue when she was born and bred that way since birth and she's so narrowly focused skill wise in the bigger picture. might be a bad comparison but it's like calling T'Challa a Gary Stu for being such a good warrior

    and people "liking" her in verse has nothing to do with it lol
    It has a lot to do with it. One of the biggest codifiers for a Mary Sue is a character getting heaped on with undeserved praise and loved and lavished by everyone.

    It's not just about having no flaws but how those flaws are treated in the story, Erina being "socially awkward" (ie a massive bitch) doesn't matter if its glossed over by everyone in the manga and they all love and adore her anyways. Here's some identifiers on what makes a Mary Sue...

    What little personality a Mary Sue has isn't as important as how other characters react to it. No matter how shy or socially awkward Mary Sue is supposed to be, other characters will be inexplicably drawn to her. All of her ideas are brilliant, all of her jokes are funny, and all of her advice is spot-on. People will trust her implicitly, even more than their families, significant others, or closest friends. Anyone who doesn't react to her this way is usually portrayed as evil or stupid. She doesn't have to do anything to deserve this treatment; she's an impossibly good person because the author says she is.

    Check, Erina has been adored and gushed upon more than pretty much every other character in the franchise combined. Ever since Azami showed up into the picture we've had people lining up to sing her praises, everyone wanting to be her closest friend. She ended up literally schooling the Polar Star in preparation of the upcoming event and stepped up as team leader providing the strategy and lineup that will pull to the team through in the end. She can do no wrong and nobody opposes her.

    She's extremely persuasive; everyone finds her opinions to be better than their own, regardless of the actual content of her supposedly awesome arguments. This is especially common in an Author Tract. It's also particularly jarring when characters who are usually very stubborn immediately take her side.

    We're basically in the midst of this right now.

    However, an equally valid (And equally grating) Is a sue who treats others with contempt, anger, and insultingness, yet DESPITE everything, every single character (except for the bad guys) adores her. Even characters whom she constantly treats like crap still want to be "best fwiends" with her and risk their lives for her.

    Half the people kissing her feet were people she treated like complete shit. Good examples would be her cousin Alice who she had been nothing but condescending to throughout the majority of the manga and never did anything to make up for it, Ikumi who she pretty much stabbed in the back and abandoned all ties with for losing a Shokugeki, and even Souma himself who she spent a large portion of the manga antagonizing and treating like scum of the earth.

    She has a Dark and Troubled Past, which she deals with in two ways: either she turns up the Wangst (and thus gets lots of attention), or she remains unreasonably cheerful and optimistic in spite of it and becomes a full-on Genki Girl. There is no middle ground here.

    The former and it hit in full force with more focus and emphasis put on it than pretty much every other character's backstory combined. Her character turned full victim and had to get coddled at Polar Star Dorm because her past was so dark and traumatic. She gets bonus points in this department for her past focusing on parental abuse, that's a favorite for Mary Sues.

    The list just goes on...

    Extremely beautiful in terms of illustration and character comments? I don't think this is much of a mark against her since it's basically true for all of the women in this manga, but she is noteworthy in this regard for having a stalker who fantasized and lusted for her in Sadatsuki.

    Having two characters fight for her affection? Yep, this was basically how Arato and Sadatsuka were introduced, pining for Erina's affection. Arato's entire character exists to worship Erina and her entire character arc was centered around wanting to be promoted from Erina's loyal secretary to being her friend. Though even after this arc she still dotes on her like part of a fanclub and not someone walking alongside her as an equal.

    Closely related through blood or adoption to some of the most major characters in the story? Absolutely, grandfather is the headmaster of the academy, her father is the main villain, cousin to Alice because why not... Nakiri name runs strong through the story.

    Specialized unique trait to make her stand out in a special way from the rest of the characters in the story? The God's Tongue qualifies.

    Chosen one status? Her Gods tongue is the tool that will make or break Central's plan for World Domination,

    The most skilled and talented character around? The main character just had to have her hold his hand through making his absolute best dish and Erina just surpassed it regardless before even adding her final touch.

    Never loses? This is yet to happen, right now she's going up against the best of the best the school has to offer and they're being made to sound like amateurs in front of her rebellious perfection.

    Exceptionally talented at everything she does? The manga just made it a point to say that she has no specialty because every theme she tackles she is able to bring to levels of perfection. She even took the gag nightmare cooking of Souma and Joichiro and turn it into a delicious meal because her perfection has no limitations.

    Turns the villain good with her shining idealism? I'd give Azami three more chapters tops.

    Overwhelming amounts of narrative importance and spotlight? She just upstaged the main fucking character, having the full arc centered around herself and her family drama, leading the team through all of their obstacles, and taking the final boss and biggest obstacle all for herself to masterfully overcome and save the day.

    ---

    Erina is absolutely a Mary Sue

  8. #8
    Not Gay Gay's Avatar
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    no

    she's awkward socially

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Great Potato View Post
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    snip
    two questions: is this totally objective and where did you get your definitions?

    cuz this is the one I roll with:

    Quote Originally Posted by wikipedia
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    A Mary Sue is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character. Often, this character is recognized as an author insert or wish fulfillment. They can usually perform better at tasks than should be possible given the amount of training or experience.
    big emphasis on the bolded since that's the biggest defining trait of a Mary Sue

    and Erina hasn't demonstrated anything near this, although one could make the argument she's definitely the idealized author inserted girl. she's definitely not perfect

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  10. #10
    Mary sues dont have to be perfect in every way. She is perfect in the relevant stuff ie: cooking.

    She is definitely a mary sue.

    I remember the characters were comparing her to joan of arc like she was some kind of heroine

  11. #11
    See you in the desert... Makenzye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    still don't see how that makes her a Mary Sue when she was born and bred that way since birth and she's so narrowly focused skill wise in the bigger picture. might be a bad comparison but it's like calling T'Challa a Gary Stu for being such a good warrior

    and people "liking" her in verse has nothing to do with it lol
    I don't think people like T'Challa, though.

    Respect him? Sure. Fear him? Sure. Wonder why he's standing in their room in the middle of the night and then have their throats ripped out? Sure. But liked so much and portrayed with few to no faults? Not so much.

    While you're definitely right that T'Challa is often portrayed with Mary Sue like abilities in science, combat, and politics, he's not exactly liked on Earth. MS' are oddly loved by their surrounding cast. Reed enjoys him, Stark doesn't care for the guy, Cap respects him, Storm loves him, Luke Cage finds him a bit arrogant, and the rest of the superhero world view him in a less than Batman sort of reverence and generally don't want to be on his radar. Oh, and Black Knight despises the guy after the whole Ebony Blade incident. As for Erina, it's harder to really identify if the character typically portrays a Mary Sue if the author created the story just to tell it that way. (Is she a Mary Sue if it's a professional publication question). The story might be designed to revolve around her as it seems to (socially, at least) and that would more or less just make it less a Mary Sue and more of just her story. On the other hand, the manga is supposed to be about Souma, who is liked for the most part but due to friendlier behavior and not because he's just so darned pretty and talented and half Vulcan, half Kree, and half labradoodle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    two questions: is this totally objective and where did you get your definitions?

    cuz this is the one I roll with:

    big emphasis on the bolded since that's the biggest defining trait of a Mary Sue

    and Erina hasn't demonstrated anything near this, although one could make the argument she's definitely the idealized author inserted girl. she's definitely not perfect
    Oh, I know where.

  12. #12
    She’s the only reason to keep reading this manga tbh

    Current arc is ass besides her

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Makenzye View Post
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    I don't think people like T'Challa, though.

    Respect him? Sure. Fear him? Sure. Wonder why he's standing in their room in the middle of the night and then have their throats ripped out? Sure. But liked so much and portrayed with few to no faults? Not so much.

    While you're definitely right that T'Challa is often portrayed with Mary Sue like abilities in science, combat, and politics, he's not exactly liked on Earth. MS' are oddly loved by their surrounding cast. Reed enjoys him, Stark doesn't care for the guy, Cap respects him, Storm loves him, Luke Cage finds him a bit arrogant, and the rest of the superhero world view him in a less than Batman sort of reverence and generally don't want to be on his radar. Oh, and Black Knight despises the guy after the whole Ebony Blade incident. As for Erina, it's harder to really identify if the character typically portrays a Mary Sue if the author created the story just to tell it that way. (Is she a Mary Sue if it's a professional publication question). The story might be designed to revolve around her as it seems to (socially, at least) and that would more or less just make it less a Mary Sue and more of just her story. On the other hand, the manga is supposed to be about Souma, who is liked for the most part but due to friendlier behavior and not because he's just so darned pretty and talented and half Vulcan, half Kree, and half labradoodle.


    Oh, I know where.
    I'm just bringing up the example of his abilities, not if he's well liked or not, as a Gary Stu himself. from an ignorant person like me's point of view, a good amount of comics characters are Gary Stus or Mary Sues cuz they're all polymaths

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  14. #14
    See you in the desert... Makenzye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    I'm just bringing up the example of his abilities, not if he's well liked or not, as a Gary Stu himself. from an ignorant person like me's point of view, a good amount of comics characters are Gary Stus or Mary Sues cuz they're all polymaths
    That I agree with. Comic superheroes are generally written as hyper competent multi-genius types since we sorta view that as a positive thing here in the States.


    Truthfully, if Spider-Man wasn't feared by the public (off and on), he'd be a big Stu type. Super genius, super useful powers, super unique, super babes in his life, very attractive, just really hated by a public that thinks he's a creepy menace (sometimes).

    Batman is pretty much a straight Canon Sue sort of character as the public (and most of his allies) love the guy. We just don't view it as bad since the comic is written about him and the mystique that leads to this phenomenon is considered acceptable. However, if the comic were about one of the Robin's being the best, the comic would probably have a lot more complaints.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Makenzye View Post
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    Truthfully, if Spider-Man wasn't feared by the public (off and on), he'd be a big Stu type. Super genius, super useful powers, super unique, super babes in his life, very attractive, just really hated by a public that thinks he's a creepy menace (sometimes).
    wait hwat? this is new to me

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  16. #16
    See you in the desert... Makenzye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    wait hwat? this is new to me
    If I were to give most people five guesses on who is Spider-Man's greatest villains were, I'd mostly get: Green Goblin, Venom, Vulture, Mysterio, and Doctor Octopus.


    Nobody would guess the true ultimate villain in Spider-Man's life: Media and public perception. Some of the public loves Spidey and some have nightmares about a creepy guy who dresses up like a spider and crawls around buildings at night. And might be a mutant. It's not completely unheard of for him to save someone's life just to have that person scream about being let go or having stuff thrown at him.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    wait hwat? this is new to me
    The Daily Bugle isn't kind to Spiderman.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Makenzye View Post
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    If I were to give most people five guesses on who is Spider-Man's greatest villains were, I'd mostly get: Green Goblin, Venom, Vulture, Mysterio, and Doctor Octopus.


    Nobody would guess the true ultimate villain in Spider-Man's life: Media and public perception. Some of the public loves Spidey and some have nightmares about a creepy guy who dresses up like a spider and crawls around buildings at night. And might be a mutant. It's not completely unheard of for him to save someone's life just to have that person scream about being let go or having stuff thrown at him.
    well shit

    Quote Originally Posted by Great Potato View Post
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    The Daily Bugle isn't kind to Spiderman.
    I would think they have the same cred as "news" mags in Walmart like the Globe or something

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  19. #19
    See you in the desert... Makenzye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    well shit

    I would think they have the same cred as "news" mags in Walmart like the Globe or something
    The Bugle was thought of more like a credible New York newspaper since it does local news stories and is locally based. It just happened to focus often on how evil Spider-Man was. Sometimes by intentional misdirection, sometimes by complete misunderstanding.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I can't remember the issue, but there was an issue where Spider-Man swung in to save an old lady and she interpreted it as him trying to kidnap her or take advantage of a situation.

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Makenzye View Post
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    If I were to give most people five guesses on who is Spider-Man's greatest villains were, I'd mostly get: Green Goblin, Venom, Vulture, Mysterio, and Doctor Octopus.


    Nobody would guess the true ultimate villain in Spider-Man's life: Media and public perception. Some of the public loves Spidey and some have nightmares about a creepy guy who dresses up like a spider and crawls around buildings at night. And might be a mutant. It's not completely unheard of for him to save someone's life just to have that person scream about being let go or having stuff thrown at him.
    His ultimate villain is jamieson

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