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  1. #1

    Some questions about Fate

    Recently I've been playing the original Fate route and UBW, but there are some uncertain things.

    1/ Archer can reproduce any weapon after seeing it once, even Gae Bolg as it was shown in the church when Archer killed Caster in Gilgamesh's style. Now the questions is, would he be able to use Gae Bolg's and other Noble Phantasm's abilities as well? Such as Spear that Pierces with Death, an so on.

    2/ Did Gilgamesh get weaker after he was reincarnated by the Holy Grail? As far as I remember, his stats were really low, probably even lower than Saber's. Despite that, Saber was still no match for him. Gilgamesh was parrying Excalibur with bare hands (with his armor on though), and almost killed her with a single Ea's blast.

    3/ Are Servant's stats that important? Berserker was supposed to be an invincible Servant with maximum stats, however Archer still killed him 6 times before disappearing.

    4/ It was stated that even Berserker would be no match for Arotoria after making a contract with Rin, however would Saber be really able to put Berserker down? Unlike Archer and Gilgamesh who's a perfect counter for Heracles, it would be rather impossible for Saber to bypass God Hand. Would Excalibur blast extinguish all (or at least a majority) of Berserker's lives at once?


  2. #2
    Quote Originally Posted by Jörmungandr View Post
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    Recently I've been playing the original Fate route and UBW, but there are some uncertain things.

    1/ Archer can reproduce any weapon after seeing it once, even Gae Bolg as it was shown in the church when Archer killed Caster in Gilgamesh's style. Now the questions is, would he be able to use Gae Bolg's and other Noble Phantasm's abilities as well? Such as Spear that Pierces with Death, an so on.
    No, the ability that reverses causality is exclusive to Cu, he designed it. Archer's replications are ranked down too. Gilgamesh is much the same - his weapons being the prototypes mean they actually do still retain some abilities, but him not being masterful at wielding them means he isn't able to use them to their potential, so he just shoots them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jörmungandr View Post
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    2/ Did Gilgamesh get weaker after he was reincarnated by the Holy Grail? As far as I remember, his stats were really low, probably even lower than Saber's. Despite that, Saber was still no match for him. Gilgamesh was parrying Excalibur with bare hands (with his armor on though), and almost killed her with a single Ea's blast.
    Pretty sure his armour is a Noble Phantasm in itself. Anyway, kind of, yes. Kirei was never a great source of mana.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jörmungandr View Post
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    3/ Are Servant's stats that important? Berserker was supposed to be an invincible Servant with maximum stats, however Archer still killed him 6 times before disappearing.
    It depends. Berserker's Noble Phantasm God Hand, for instance, conceptually blocks anything below and including B-Rank, so in that respect it is important. But the stats are just for show a lot of times too - a low-ranking servant can beat a highly ranked one if they matchup well conceptually. Mystery takes precedence here, the fights in Fate are all about matchups rather than raw power.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jörmungandr View Post
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    4/ It was stated that even Berserker would be no match for Arotoria after making a contract with Rin, however would Saber be really able to put Berserker down? Unlike Archer and Gilgamesh who's a perfect counter for Heracles, it would be rather impossible for Saber to bypass God Hand. Would Excalibur blast extinguish all (or at least a majority) of Berserker's lives at once?
    Caliburn taking multiple lives was a miracle, and I think the comment saying he'd be no match was a little superfluous. However, God Hand I don't believe would gain total immunity from Excalibur - different ways to kill him with the same weapon after all. The way God Hand works is something still discussed to this day, actually. I would argue that it's possible Excalibur takes multiple lives, but the bottom line is Caliburn taking multiple lives was essentially an asspull to take Berserker out of the story at that point.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Jörmungandr View Post
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    1/ Archer can reproduce any weapon after seeing it once, even Gae Bolg as it was shown in the church when Archer killed Caster in Gilgamesh's style. Now the questions is, would he be able to use Gae Bolg's and other Noble Phantasm's abilities as well? Such as Spear that Pierces with Death, an so on.
    Probably not. Shirou at one point reproduced Nine Live Works, but it was more of a miracle then something he can do at any time.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jörmungandr View Post
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    2/ Did Gilgamesh get weaker after he was reincarnated by the Holy Grail? As far as I remember, his stats were really low, probably even lower than Saber's. Despite that, Saber was still no match for him. Gilgamesh was parrying Excalibur with bare hands (with his armor on though), and almost killed her with a single Ea's blast.
    His stats wen't down after making contract with Kirei, because he's not really a good master. Still, Gilgamesh in his fights relies exclusively on his overpowered Noble Phantasms, so it doesn't make any difference for him.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jörmungandr View Post
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    3/ Are Servant's stats that important? Berserker was supposed to be an invincible Servant with maximum stats, however Archer still killed him 6 times before disappearing.
    They are important, but not the most important. Noble Phantasms and skills play bigger role, but stats can be crucial for some types of servants. Heracles has the standard weakness of a Berserker (inability to think and strategize), while Archer is known for being quick-witted and he had the right tools for the job.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Ratchet View Post
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    No, the ability that reverses causality is exclusive to Cu, he designed it. Archer's replications are ranked down too. Gilgamesh is much the same - his weapons being the prototypes mean they actually do still retain some abilities, but him not being masterful at wielding them means he isn't able to use them to their potential, so he just shoots them.


    Pretty sure his armour is a Noble Phantasm in itself. Anyway, kind of, yes. Kirei was never a great source of mana.

    It depends. Berserker's Noble Phantasm God Hand, for instance, conceptually blocks anything below and including B-Rank, so in that respect it is important. But the stats are just for show a lot of times too - a low-ranking servant can beat a highly ranked one if they matchup well conceptually. Mystery takes precedence here, the fights in Fate are all about matchups rather than raw power.

    Caliburn taking multiple lives was a miracle, and I think the comment saying he'd be no match was a little superfluous. However, God Hand I don't believe would gain total immunity from Excalibur - different ways to kill him with the same weapon after all. The way God Hand works is something still discussed to this day, actually. I would argue that it's possible Excalibur takes multiple lives, but the bottom line is Caliburn taking multiple lives was essentially an asspull to take Berserker out of the story at that point.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cichy View Post
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    Probably not. Shirou at one point reproduced Nine Live Works, but it was more of a miracle then something he can do at any time.



    His stats wen't down after making contract with Kirei, because he's not really a good master. Still, Gilgamesh in his fights relies exclusively on his overpowered Noble Phantasms, so it doesn't make any difference for him.



    They are important, but not the most important. Noble Phantasms and skills play bigger role, but stats can be crucial for some types of servants. Heracles has the standard weakness of a Berserker (inability to think and strategize), while Archer is known for being quick-witted and he had the right tools for the job.
    That explains a lot. Thank you guys.


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