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Results 41 to 60 of 66
  1. #41
    With Katakuri gone my interest in this arc is 0.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    What sort of weak ass response is that. If oda wanted us to view Yuen as someone with a relevant amount of strength, he could have easily had Vito refer to him as a monster, given him more prominence during the wedding ceremony or the like. The 8 I mentioned are all a step above the others, and this has been reflected by the portrayal, feats and panel time they've all received. Yuen has NOTHING on any of them.

    Who says he even existed in Oda's mind up until recently? Oda does want us to think he's capable because he just did something semi-impressive. That is his feat. You cannot take it away from him because of your feelings of what makes sense and precedent.

    No they are not. They are just the most well developed ones. Typically that's how it works but it's not a rule. There is no established reason Yuen and even Raisin can't be stronger than Opera of all people or even Amande. Even Tomago and Bobbin. I highly doubt they'll be portrayed above the latter two and give benefit of the doubt to Amande but I'm not going to call bollocks if that is what ends up happening. It would be a random surprise but it will be what it is.

    We had every reason to rank Opera, Brulee, and the others highly among the family but if Oda wants to mess with our expectations he can do that as much as he wants. Or he could have just changed his mind or is even trying to fix the BM's pirates portrayal and explain we've been dealing with their bum-squad the entire arc up until this point. He has the freedom to do that both within the context of the story and as an author all he wants.

    In the absence of feats, we go by portrayal and hype. You seem to have things the wrong way around here
    This is a new character. You cannot compare and contrast him to anybody. You're literally, almost to the word now, making arguments like Slayer has in the past for Vista. Yuen did what he did. Period. That is the end of the discussion until further information comes forth that contradicts what he did (which I doubt is coming because it wasn't that crazy).

    You were talking about my autism in a negative way. I really don't get why youre so critical of me. You clearly haven't learned a fucking thing from the more heated discussions weve had over the past year, otherwise you wouldn't be accusing me of being argumentative and interpreting things too strictly. I'm simply trying my best to make sens eof the powerlevels and how they drive the plot, and on occasions where I'm proven wrong, ill very happily revise my beliefs and admit defeat. I don't know how you could fault the way I go about discussings these topics. Whens the last time you held a conversation wthout giving off your typical condescending and arrogant vibe, or even accepted that you were wrong about something. You have an incredibly inflated opinion of yourself and are incredibly unpleasant to speak to. You need some humility big time

    Alright so I'm not talking out my ass. Being autistic isn't a problem. I'm just trying to communicate to you that things that sound like rules to you are not rules.

    What!? :/. How would I not when the same behavior creeps up from time to time? Good that you're trying and this is the first time you've admitted to me what I used to just guess. Stay on topic tho. I won't bring it up again. My point is Yuen is an entirely new character and Oda can have new characters do whatever and be whoever he wants. There are no rules against it.
    Last edited by Dayum; 03-10-2018 at 07:57 PM.

  3. #43
    Banned pizzadust's Avatar
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    Oda can have new characters do what they want, but when one of them who isn't a sweet commander sends Sanji flying it doesn't make us take the big mom pirates more seriously, but makes sanji look like more of a joke. It's bad writing, obviously he can make any character whatever strength he wants to,but sometimes making a character a certain strength is negative for the series though.
    Last edited by pizzadust; 03-10-2018 at 06:01 PM.

  4. #44
    People are just mad because Sanji hasn't done shit period beyond that one kick on Oven, so when he finally had a potential moment some people felt blueballed.

    Oda could have done a better job letting Sanji and Pekoms get a couple pages of good work in knocking away a few random siblings but he clearly focused on lending some credibility to Mont'dor's comments to Morgans last chapter.
    Last edited by Dayum; 03-10-2018 at 07:54 PM.

  5. #45
    The guy hit him when he was distracted, Sanji doenst even have a single scratch from him.

    I dont know why all the shitstorm. First it was ridiculous that the BM pirates werent stomping everybody, now is ridiculous that they do something.

  6. #46
    ReXDrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dayum View Post
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    Who says he even existed in Oda's mind up until recently? Oda does want us to think he's capable because he just did something semi-impressive. That is his feat. You cannot take it away from him because of your feelings of what makes sense and precedent.

    No they are not. They are just the most well developed ones. Typically that's how it works but it's not a rule. There is no established reason Yuen and even Raisin can't be stronger than Opera of all people or even Amande. Even Tomago and Bobbin. I highly doubt they'll be portrayed above the latter two and give benefit of the doubt to Amande but I'm not going to call bollocks if that is what ends up happening. It would be a random surprise but it will be what it is.

    We had every reason to rank Opera, Brulee, and the others highly among the family but if Oda wants to mess with our expectations he can do that as much as he wants. Or he could have just changed his mind or is even trying to fix the BM's pirates portrayal and explain we've been dealing with their bum-squad the entire arc up until this point. He has the freedom to do that both within the context of the story and as an author all he wants.



    This is a new character. You cannot compare and contrast him to anybody. You're literally, almost to the word now, making arguments like Slayer has in the past for Vista. Yuen did what he did. Period. That is the end of the discussion until further information comes forth that contradicts what he did (which I doubt is coming because it wasn't that crazy).



    Alright so I'm not talking out my ass. Being autistic isn't a problem. I'm just trying to communicate to you that things that sound like rules to you are not rules.

    What!? :/. How would I not when the same behavior creeps up from time to time? Good that you're trying and this is the first time you've admitted to me what I used to just guess. Stay on topic tho. I won't bring it up again. My point is Yuen is an entirely new character and Oda can have new characters do whatever and be whoever he wants. There are no rules against it.
    That's not a valid excuse and you don't even know whether its true. The "established reason" Yuen is <Opera and Tamago is that he hasn't been given the portrayal or hype that wcould correspond (or be befitting of) to him being that level in strength. As I stated last chapter, Oda had plenty of opportunities to cast him in a much better light.

    You absolutely can in a situation like this. What I'm doing isn't analogous to Slayer trying to downplay Vista, because UNLIKE Yuen, Vista WAS given standout portrayal from the outset. What I'm complaining about would be similar to vista doing what he did against mihawk IF HE WASNT EVEN A DIVISION COMMANDER. You see the difference?

    If theres nothing wrong with being autistic, then what did you mean when you said "is your autism managed?" That implicitly sounds like you believe its a bad thing. This ISNT the first time. THATS THE FUCKING THING. Ive even conceded points TO YOU in the not too distant past AND COMMUNICATED THIS TO YOU. If youre not going be so presumptuous about me anymore then I wont go any further, (because believe it or not, your insight about OP makes me respect you more than the other pricks on here), but be aware that your charges aren't even correct.





    Not everyone dies because they want to die.

    Most of them die against their will

  7. #47
    rexdrake still sperging out in ph

    somethings never change

  8. #48
    Dayum trying to argue with Rex is the best part of this thread

    Dayum straight up called Rex a dumb autist that doesn't know how to debate and yet Rex doesn't rage at him since he respects Dayums "OP insight"


  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    That's not a valid excuse and you don't even know whether its true. The "established reason" Yuen is <Opera and Tamago is that he hasn't been given the portrayal or hype that wcould correspond (or be befitting of) to him being that level in strength. As I stated last chapter, Oda had plenty of opportunities to cast him in a much better light.


    The scene is his portrayal.

    He just showed up XD. He got a small introduction last chapter. Then Oda followed it up with him doing something.

    You absolutely can in a situation like this. What I'm doing isn't analogous to Slayer trying to downplay Vista, because UNLIKE Yuen, Vista WAS given standout portrayal from the outset. What I'm complaining about would be similar to vista doing what he did against mihawk IF HE WASNT EVEN A DIVISION COMMANDER. You see the difference?
    Yuen's feats are his feats lol. Slayer says Mihawk was holding back or it was just bullshit potrayal. You're treating Yuen like Vista be disregarding what he did. Difference is simply that Slayer doesn't think much of 3rd seat. You don't think much of anyone beneath Oven.

    Very simple. We were all wrong about who the top 16 were among the BM pirates or there even being a top 16. Zero things put Opera about his little brothers and sisters. If Cintron and Cinnamon put in work next chapter it is what it is.



    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Slayer View Post
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    Dayum trying to argue with Rex is the best part of this thread

    Dayum straight up called Rex a dumb autist that doesn't know how to debate and yet Rex doesn't rage at him since he respects Dayums "OP insight"
    No arguing. Why does anyone need him to change his mind. Didn't call him dumb either. Mini-freak outs are just not healthy.

  10. #50
    ReXDrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dayum View Post
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    The scene is his portrayal.

    He just showed up XD. He got a small introduction last chapter. Then Oda followed it up with him doing something.



    Yuen's feats are his feats lol. Slayer says Mihawk was holding back or it was just bullshit potrayal. You're treating Yuen like Vista be disregarding what he did. Difference is simply that Slayer doesn't think much of 3rd seat. You don't think much of anyone beneath Oven.

    Very simple. We were all wrong about who the top 16 were among the BM pirates or there even being a top 16. Zero things put Opera about his little brothers and sisters. If Cintron and Cinnamon put in work next chapter it is what it is.


    [/LEFT]

    - - - Updated - - -



    No arguing. Why does anyone need him to change his mind. Didn't call him dumb either. Mini-freak outs are just not healthy.

    Youre putting the horse before the cart. Sanjis strength level is approximately equivalent to that of a high level yonkou subordinate - the next best people after the top 3s. Hypothetically speaking, If oda hadn't given any of the BM pirates (ignoring the Sweet commanders) any hype or portrayal prior to the fight scenes going down, then I wouldn't have any problem with what Yuen did, because we'd have no pre-existing expectations about what they SHOULD have been able to do. The problem is, we already knew who these people were (Daifuku, Oven), because Oda had made an effort to distinguish them from everyone else and depict them as the top brass.

    The thing is, Yuen DIDNT receive the sort of portrayal wed expect a person capable of doing what he just did to get AT ALL. If he was meant to be viewed as someone that could tag sanji, then he SHOULD have been shown in a similar light to the "monsters" who we KNOW CAN do those sorts of things. That would have given us a frame of reference for what to expect from him. Instead, he has been shown as just one of the many lesser fighters under Ovens instruction, and this is what made his feat seem so ridiculous.

    In this case, the portrayal and hype guides our understanding of what the feats should look like. Theres a clear inconsistency with Yuen being able to do what Daifuku and co can do when he doesn't stack up to them in how hes been presented by oda.

    That's the problem at the heart of all this.





    Not everyone dies because they want to die.

    Most of them die against their will

  11. #51
    The thing is, Yuen DIDNT receive the sort of portrayal wed expect a person capable of doing what he just did to get AT ALL. If he was meant to be viewed as someone that could tag sanji, then he SHOULD have been shown in a similar light to the "monsters" who we KNOW CAN do those sorts of things. That would have given us a frame of reference for what to expect from him. Instead, he has been shown as just one of the many lesser fighters under Ovens instruction, and this is what made his feat seem so ridiculous.
    You're making assumptions of how much lesser they are. You're making the assumption that only an Elite can do anything to Sanji at all. It's your perception that Sanji/Smoker/Seat level guys are untouchable to Gladius/Cav/Bart level guys, or even guys a notch below that. This is a situation where you don't like something for it not coinciding with your tier list. And again, we've already seen the nameless teens&preteens of the BM pirates can somehow not get instant smashed by the likes of Jinbe. BM kids are no joke and you cannot keep downgrading new ones on the performance of Opera and Brulee. You certainly don't get to say those kids that bothered Jinbe should not have been capable of doing so. They did what they did. Yuen did what he did. Move on.

    You cannot keep claiming that Oda must give us a a big introduction and multiple scenes implying strength and/or status for someone's feats to be taken seriously. Those are your standards, nothing more. Feats should always be taken seriously unless they are contradicted later. This scene was his portayal and Oda's opportunity to show him off. Tho again there is nothing to contradict with Yuen specifically because he did nothing crazy. He hit a stationary distracted target. Your idea that Sanji using moonwalk(which is not the same as the initial super fast dash Sanji enters fights with) should somehow be untouchable to anybody who is less than 95/90% of Sanji's strength is unfounded and a personal belief. I've always though that exaggerated that of Gotti, Baby-5, or Franky tagged Sanji in a precarious situation. Fully focused sure but that's not what happened. So what, you'd tell Oda what Yuen should and should not capable of if given the chance?
    Last edited by Dayum; 03-11-2018 at 06:57 PM.

  12. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dayum View Post
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    You're making assumptions of how much lesser they are. You're making the assumption that only an Elite can do anything to Sanji at all. It's your perception that Sanji/Smoker/Seat level guys are untouchable to Gladius/Cav/Bart level guys, or even guys a notch below that. This is a situation where you don't like something for it not coinciding with your tier list. And again, we've already seen the nameless teens&preteens of the BM pirates can somehow not get instant smashed by the likes of Jinbe. BM kids are no joke and you cannot keep downgrading new ones on the performance of Opera and Brulee. You certainly don't get to say those kids that bothered Jinbe should not have been capable of doing so. They did what they did. Yuen did what he did. Move on.

    You cannot keep claiming that Oda must give us a a big introduction and multiple scenes implying strength and/or status for someone's feats to be taken seriously. Those are your standards, nothing more. Feats should always be taken seriously unless they are contradicted later. This scene was his portayal and Oda's opportunity to show him off. Tho again there is nothing to contradict with Yuen specifically because he did nothing crazy. He hit a stationary distracted target. Your idea that Sanji using moonwalk(which is not the same as the initial super fast dash Sanji enters fights with) should somehow be untouchable to anybody who is less than 95/90% of Sanji's strength is unfounded and a personal belief. I've always though that exaggerated that of Gotti, Baby-5, or Franky tagged Sanji in a precarious situation. Fully focused sure but that's not what happened. So what, you'd tell Oda what Yuen should and should not capable of if given the chance?
    That depends entirely on the person in question. Ive already addressed this point. If oda hadn't put the spotlight on any of the BM pirates aside from the Sweet commanders (or people>>sanji, for the sake of argument), before things got going, then Yuens feat might have been legitimate. But Oda DID set a benchmark for what to expect from the people that are on sanjis level. Yuen wasn't presented in a way that would suggest he can do what they can. This is equivalent to some no name marine soldier landing a hit on a marco that's in a serious and switched on state of mind at MF.





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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    That depends entirely on the person in question. Ive already addressed this point. If oda hadn't put the spotlight on any of the BM pirates aside from the Sweet commanders (or people>>sanji, for the sake of argument), before things got going, then Yuens feat might have been legitimate. But Oda DID set a benchmark for what to expect from the people that are on sanjis level. Yuen wasn't presented in a way that would suggest he can do what they can. This is equivalent to some no name marine soldier landing a hit on a marco that's in a serious and switched on state of mind at MF.
    That says nothing about what the people below those said members are capable of though. The only thing we knew about Yuen prior to this was that he was the 64th child of BM. There's literally nothing contradicting what he did cause that's literally his first feat. How are those two scenarios even remotely comparable?

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate Hunter Eddy View Post
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    That says nothing about what the people below those said members are capable of though. The only thing we knew about Yuen prior to this was that he was the 64th child of BM. There's literally nothing contradicting what he did cause that's literally his first feat. How are those two scenarios even remotely comparable?
    Those members were portrayed in a completely different light to everyone else though. If the power differential between people like Daifuku, Oven and everyone else who wasn't listed as a monster by Vito is anything but huge, then there wouldn't have been any point in singling them out.





    Not everyone dies because they want to die.

    Most of them die against their will

  15. #55
    Why is rex talking like yuen had killed the entire SH crew with his bare hands?

    The guy just got a cheap shot in a distracted sanji, he didnt even hurt him .

    Why are you making all this fuss?

  16. #56
    Pirate Hunter Eddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    Those members were portrayed in a completely different light to everyone else though. If the power differential between people like Daifuku, Oven and everyone else who wasn't listed as a monster by Vito is anything but huge, then there wouldn't have been any point in singling them out.
    Why? They where singled out from the rest because they are the clear strongest yes, That doesn't all of a sudden make the rest of the members so astronomically inferior that they can't even do anything to a distracted Sanji. Your acting as If knocking a distracted Sanji out of the air with zero damage done is so unbelievable to achieve.

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pirate Hunter Eddy View Post
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    Why? They where singled out from the rest because they are the clear strongest yes, That doesn't all of a sudden make the rest of the members so astronomically inferior that they can't even do anything to a distracted Sanji. Your acting as If knocking a distracted Sanji out of the air with zero damage done is so unbelievable to achieve.
    Distracted or not, it was infuriating that yuen and a few other nameless goons were able to not only keep track of sanjis movements, but get in front of him.





    Not everyone dies because they want to die.

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  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    Distracted or not, it was infuriating that yuen and a few other nameless goons were able to not only keep track of sanjis movements, but get in front of him.
    You keep presuming Moonwalk is extremely fast. It's movement speed, not combat. He wasn't going anywhere at Soru like speeds. He was cut off.

  19. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dayum View Post
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    You keep presuming Moonwalk is extremely fast. It's movement speed, not combat. He wasn't going anywhere at Soru like speeds. He was cut off.
    Why wouldn't sanji have been travelling at top speed when he knew how imperative it was for him and luffy to get back to the sunny and shake off the BM pirates





    Not everyone dies because they want to die.

    Most of them die against their will

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    Why wouldn't sanji have been travelling at top speed when he knew how imperative it was for him and luffy to get back to the sunny and shake off the BM pirates
    Who said he wasn't moving at his top movement speed?? He ran into an enemy, not away and again was distracted. Sanji has never been a Z fighter in the sky or even move like CP9 members who combined Soru&Geppou to zip quickly while airborne.

    Moonwalk is not Soru or a dash. Sanji moves very fast in bursts. Zoro moves very fast in bursts. They are not Brook, Dellinger, or Hakuba with very fast movements all around.

    Here comes the tier logic when it's different kinds of speed and attributes on display here.

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