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  1. #1

    Four Sweet Commanders vs Akainu

    Who wins?
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  2. #2
    Blue Thunderclap Nightfall's Avatar
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    I used to think 3-4 top commanders would beat an Admiral but now, no.

    Especially Akainu. What’s Katakuri, Cracker, amd Smoothie gonna do to keep him down? Nothing. But Akainu could bulldoze his way through them one by one with sheer offensive power and his magma lethality. So I’m going to have to give this one to Akainu.

  3. #3
    Four commanders at once is too much for an admiral.


  4. #4
    Cafe Conqueror X's Avatar
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    The Commanders haven't really shown anything impressive enough to take down any Admirals.


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  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
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    I used to think 3-4 top commanders would beat an Admiral but now, no.

    Especially Akainu. What’s Katakuri, Cracker, amd Smoothie gonna do to keep him down? Nothing. But Akainu could bulldoze his way through them one by one with sheer offensive power and his magma lethality. So I’m going to have to give this one to Akainu.
    This recent arc really widened the gap between the FMs and the Admirals. But I'm wondering if we'll still perceive it as such a giant gap when Oda finally has the Straw Hats face off against one. Nobody suspected a FM to go down like this, but it happened, and an Admiral is the next step in the pecking order, so who knows? I guess that extends to Yonko in some respects as well. Oda said Luffy wouldn't put Kaido down with a giant punch, but did he say anything else? I feel like the joint effort thing might just be wishful thinking.

    It makes me wish Oda stuck to a tag team effort between G2/G3 Luffy and Law to defeat Doflamingo, and then have G4: Boundman unveiled against Cracker, where the situation would have roughly been the same as Boundman vs Doflamingo. Having G2/G3 look a little less pitiful would have alleviated the situation a bit more as well. But now I'm going on a tangent, so I'll just leave it at that haha.

    I do agree with your assessment though, but Oda can be tricky nowadays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Aether View Post
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    Four commanders at once is too much for an admiral.
    Snack and Cracker would likely be bulldozed though. I think it wouId essentially come down to Smoothie and Katakuri vs Akainu and I just don't have faith. At the very least, Snack will probably prove in the coming chapters that he'll be useless in a fight like this.
    Last edited by Zu; 03-04-2018 at 07:23 AM.
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  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Zu View Post
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    This recent arc really widened the gap between the FMs and the Admirals. But I'm wondering if we'll still perceive it as such a giant gap when Oda finally has the Straw Hats face off against one. Nobody suspected a FM to go down like this, but it happened, and an Admiral is the next step in the pecking order, so who knows? I guess that extends to Yonko in some respects as well. Oda said Luffy wouldn't put Kaido down with a giant punch, but did he say anything else? I feel like the joint effort thing might just be wishful thinking.

    It makes me wish Oda stuck to a tag team effort between G2/G3 Luffy and Law to defeat Doflamingo, and then have G4: Boundman unveiled against Cracker, where the situation would have roughly been the same as Boundman vs Doflamingo. Having G2/G3 look a little less pitiful would have alleviated the situation a bit more as well. But now I'm going on a tangent, so I'll just leave it at that haha.

    I do agree with your assessment though, but Oda can be tricky nowadays.

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    Snack and Cracker would likely be bulldozed though. I think it wouId essentially come down to Smoothie and Katakuri vs Akainu and I just dont have faith. At the very least, Snack will probably prove in the coming chapters that he'll be useless in a fight like this.
    So you would've still believed it if it were Marco, Jozu, Vista and Ace? Or do you believe that those Whitebeard's are still much above Bigmom's commanders?


  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Aether View Post
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    So you would've still believed it if it were Marco, Jozu, Vista and Ace? Or do you believe that those Whitebeard's are still much above Bigmom's commanders?
    I mean, Sakazuki suffered no visible effect when Marco and Vista attacked him. You can make an argument about whether their Haki was affected due to Ace's death, but there isn't a whole lot to really substantiate that claim. I don't think any commander level opponent is as close to the Admirals as we first theorized. At the same time though, one of the main reasons I think Sakazuki takes this is because I think mochi is a poor ability to have against somebody who's main power is superheated magma. I read when mochi is burnt it loses it's sticky consistency and that's such a large part of it's effectiveness. Katakuri, being the heaviest hitter of the group would be at a heavy disadvantage and that's going to hurt the rest of them severely. If Snack possesses an ice ability, as suggested by his design, he's going to be knocked out in a single blow, so there's that too. If Smoothie actually proves that she's worth her salt, then I might reconsider, but for now any guess on her combat prowess is just that, a guess and because we haven't seen exactly how she works, we can't really extrapolate on how her ability might complement the others.

    Well, going back to your original question, I do think the WBs hold a very marginal advantage, but I don't think that's such a big deal. I think they would win, strictly because their abilities aren't at a heavy disadvantage when stacked up against Sakazuki's magma.
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  8. #8
    The strongest and most relevant fighter of the team, Katakuri, can't defeat Luffy despite getting free hits for 9 hours. Good luck defeating a tank like Akainu. Cracker and Snack would get the Curiel treatment and Smoothie is so far completely irrelevant.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Zu View Post
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    I mean, Sakazuki suffered no visible effect when Marco and Vista attacked him. You can make an argument about whether their Haki was affected due to Ace's death, but there isn't a whole lot to really substantiate that claim. I don't think any commander level opponent is as close to the Admirals as we first theorized. At the same time though, one of the main reasons I think Sakazuki takes this is because I think mochi is a poor ability to have against somebody who's main power is superheated magma. I read when mochi is burnt it loses it's sticky consistency and that's such a large part of it's effectiveness. Katakuri, being the heaviest hitter of the group would be at a heavy disadvantage and that's going to hurt the rest of them severely. If Snack possesses an ice ability, as suggested by his design, he's going to be knocked out in a single blow, so there's that too. If Smoothie actually proves that she's worth her salt, then I might reconsider, but for now any guess on her combat prowess is just that, a guess and because we haven't seen exactly how she works, we can't really extrapolate on how her ability might complement the others.
    iirc there were multiple occasions where Marco stopped Akainu or other admirals, same goes for Jozu and Vista. They were doing quite good against admiral level fighters until they were distracted or broken down mentally. We dont know if the admirals were giving their all against them in marineford but from their fighting against the admiral, we can at least assume that the commanders can hold their own against an admiral or that level of fighters, what difficulty they give the admirals or whats the gap between them is up to Oda, and we cant tell until we see an admiral at full strength.

    But here is where I think you are mistaking, wasnt mochi shown to be weaker in water as Jinbe saved Luffy with water, it cannot be weaker against heat as well if anything. Also mochi is made up of rice, right? So it is suppose to get harder if heated same goes for Cracker. Also that is if we ignore their advanced CoA and Katakuri's advanced CoO and awakening. And all of them have great skills handling weapons which Marco and Jozu dont have. So I dont think they are at that much disadvantage.

    Dont know much about Smoothie and Snack, but Smoothie should be at least above Cracker. Akainu might take out Katakuri and Cracker at once but 3 or more is too much for him imo.


  10. #10
    Why are you people even comparing WB commanders to BM commanders?? It's never said that all the commanders and FMs of each yonko are even in terms of power level, WB commanders were pretty impressive and you shouldn't downplay them just becuz BM commanders aren't.



  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Aether View Post
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    iirc there were multiple occasions where Marco stopped Akainu or other admirals, same goes for Jozu and Vista. They were doing quite good against admiral level fighters until they were distracted or broken down mentally. We dont know if the admirals were giving their all against them in marineford but from their fighting against the admiral, we can at least assume that the commanders can hold their own against an admiral or that level of fighters, what difficulty they give the admirals or whats the gap between them is up to Oda, and we cant tell until we see an admiral at full strength.

    But here is where I think you are mistaking, wasnt mochi shown to be weaker in water as Jinbe saved Luffy with water, it cannot be weaker against heat as well if anything. Also mochi is made up of rice, right? So it is suppose to get harder if heated same goes for Cracker. Also that is if we ignore their advanced CoA and Katakuri's advanced CoO and awakening. And all of them have great skills handling weapons which Marco and Jozu dont have. So I dont think they are at that much disadvantage.

    Dont know much about Smoothie and Snack, but Smoothie should be at least above Cracker. Akainu might take out Katakuri and Cracker at once but 3 or more is too much for him imo.
    Yeah, but Marco and Jozu have abilities specifically suited for defending. Marco's got a regenerative ability greater than Wolverine's while Jozu has a fruit that turns him into the hardest substance in the world. Even Ace was able to cancel out an attack from an Admiral with an ability that perfectly countered it and I don't think anybody would argue that Ace could give an Admiral any more than a low-diff fight, if that. Blocking something isn't that impressive in my opinion. I mean, I guess they looked good, but they really couldn't do anything to them, in the end. All it took was one distraction for Jozu to lose an arm. Meanwhile, when Jozu got a free tackle in on Kuzan, it only gave him a bloody lip. And yeah, I don't think we've seen their full strength.

    Ah, I see what you're saying, but it isn't that simple. There's an optimal zone you always try to maintain. Have you ever burnt rice before? I have and it's quite brittle. Same thing with mochi. If you burn it, it loses it's sticky consistency and becomes well, brittle. Not quite hard. A huge part of Katakuri's effectiveness with mochi is his creativity with it's flexible and sticky nature, combined with his incredibly hard Busoshoku Haki. If you burn that mochi though, it loses a lot of that effectiveness. And I don't think I ignored that, I just didn't think it would mean a lot against Akainu's far superior Haki. Neither would the weapons thing in my opinion. Although if you're willing, I'd like you to elaborate on why you think that would help.

    Fair.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shota Aizawa View Post
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    Why are you people even comparing WB commanders to BM commanders?? It's never said that all the commanders and FMs of each yonko are even in terms of power level, WB commanders were pretty impressive and you shouldn't downplay them just becuz BM commanders aren't.
    Why would there be a large gap between them?
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  12. #12
    admiral high-diffs them if he has a bad day

    mid diff sounds about right otherwise

  13. #13
    They all die

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Whitebeard View Post
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    The strongest and most relevant fighter of the team, Katakuri, can't defeat Luffy despite getting free hits for 9 hours. Good luck defeating a tank like Akainu. Cracker and Snack would get the Curiel treatment and Smoothie is so far completely irrelevant.
    cracker would not get the curiel treatment tf curiel is like the veteran version of whitebeards crew he is not near cracker's level. Smoothie is definitly not irrelevant. Just because we don't know her power doesn't mean she is irrelevant.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by MO View Post
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    cracker would not get the curiel treatment tf curiel is like the veteran version of whitebeards crew he is not near cracker's level. Smoothie is definitly not irrelevant. Just because we don't know her power doesn't mean she is irrelevant.
    Smoothie can't even open a door tho
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  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Zu View Post
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    Yeah, but Marco and Jozu have abilities specifically suited for defending. Marco's got a regenerative ability greater than Wolverine's while Jozu has a fruit that turns him into the hardest substance in the world. Even Ace was able to cancel out an attack from an Admiral with an ability that perfectly countered it and I don't think anybody would argue that Ace could give an Admiral any more than a low-diff fight, if that. Blocking something isn't that impressive in my opinion. I mean, I guess they looked good, but they really couldn't do anything to them, in the end. All it took was one distraction for Jozu to lose an arm. Meanwhile, when Jozu got a free tackle in on Kuzan, it only gave him a bloody lip. And yeah, I don't think we've seen their full strength.

    Ah, I see what you're saying, but it isn't that simple. There's an optimal zone you always try to maintain. Have you ever burnt rice before? I have and it's quite brittle. Same thing with mochi. If you burn it, it loses it's sticky consistency and becomes well, brittle. Not quite hard. A huge part of Katakuri's effectiveness with mochi is his creativity with it's flexible and sticky nature, combined with his incredibly hard Busoshoku Haki. If you burn that mochi though, it loses a lot of that effectiveness. And I don't think I ignored that, I just didn't think it would mean a lot against Akainu's far superior Haki. Neither would the weapons thing in my opinion. Although if you're willing, I'd like you to elaborate on why you think that would help.

    Fair.
    Here are the things that Katakuri and Cracker have that evens out that of Marco and Jozu's defense, regeneration, superior physical stats. I am talking about Katakuri's advanced CoO, CoA, awakening, logia like intangibility and Cracker's ability to produce almost unlimited soldiers and super hard CoA. Which Marco and Jozu didnt show.

    But the thing is, Katakuri and Cracker can produce as many biscuits and mochis as they want no matter how many times Akainu burns them, if we are talking about marineford Akainu, he didnt showed awakening against anyone so I am using he cant use it here as well. And you think Katakuri and Cracker can damage Akainu if they connects? With their CoA, I am pretty sure they can hurt him and if they all go at him at once with a good strategy, I am pretty sure they can take him out.

    TBF, we cant tell yet as of now, where all of them stands, until we see Marco and the other commanders again or an admiral at full power.


  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Aether View Post
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    Here are the things that Katakuri and Cracker have that evens out that of Marco and Jozu's defense, regeneration, superior physical stats. I am talking about Katakuri's advanced CoO, CoA, awakening, logia like intangibility and Cracker's ability to produce almost unlimited soldiers and super hard CoA. Which Marco and Jozu didnt show.

    But the thing is, Katakuri and Cracker can produce as many biscuits and mochis as they want no matter how many times Akainu burns them, if we are talking about marineford Akainu, he didnt showed awakening against anyone so I am using he cant use it here as well. And you think Katakuri and Cracker can damage Akainu if they connects? With their CoA, I am pretty sure they can hurt him and if they all go at him at once with a good strategy, I am pretty sure they can take him out.

    TBF, we cant tell yet as of now, where all of them stands, until we see Marco and the other commanders again or an admiral at full power.
    But we don't really know what level of CoA and CoO Marco and Jozu possess because they weren't really the focus of Marineford, nor was Haki a bonafide thing at that point (for the most part). I'd be very surprised if they didn't have Haki on par with or even greater than Katakuri's and Cracker's. And Marco has Logia like intangibility as well. I really don't see Akainu having much trouble with those biscuits. He should be faster and stronger than Boundman.

    Sure they can produce an unlimited amount of mochi and biscuits, but like I said earlier those biscuits shouldn't be too much of an issue and that mochi is just gonna be burned as fast as it's produced and with the vast edge Sakazuki has in stamina, he could just keep burning it until Katakuri's worn out. I highly doubt it would come down to something like that. Katakuri's gonna be pretty frustrated his mochi lacks any effectiveness against Sakazuki's magma and might resort to irrational maneuvers. He'll be able to do hardly anything to Sakazuki. Even with Haki, since Sakazuki should possess the superior CoA. Also, why would Katakuri and Cracker be able to harm him when Vista and Marco couldn't?

    And true.
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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by MO View Post
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    cracker would not get the curiel treatment tf curiel is like the veteran version of whitebeards crew he is not near cracker's level. Smoothie is definitly not irrelevant. Just because we don't know her power doesn't mean she is irrelevant.
    They don't have the firepower to defeat Akainu. Katakuri is the strongest and he can't even beat base Luffy despite using Awakening for 9 hours straight. Akainu burns them all.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Zu View Post
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    But we don't really know what level of CoA and CoO Marco and Jozu possess because they weren't really the focus of Marineford, nor was Haki a bonafide thing at that point (for the most part). I'd be very surprised if they didn't have Haki on par with or even greater than Katakuri's and Cracker's. And Marco has Logia like intangibility as well. I really don't see Akainu having much trouble with those biscuits. He should be faster and stronger than Boundman.

    Sure they can produce an unlimited amount of mochi and biscuits, but like I said earlier those biscuits shouldn't be too much of an issue and that mochi is just gonna be burned as fast as it's produced and with the vast edge Sakazuki has in stamina, he could just keep burning it until Katakuri's worn out. I highly doubt it would come down to something like that. Katakuri's gonna be pretty frustrated his mochi lacks any effectiveness against Sakazuki's magma and might resort to irrational maneuvers. He'll be able to do hardly anything to Sakazuki. Even with Haki, since Sakazuki should possess the superior CoA. Also, why would Katakuri and Cracker be able to harm him when Vista and Marco couldn't?

    And true.
    Their haki could be weaker as well.

    And you are right, he is much stronger than boundman but boundman couldnt do much against Cracker's defenses, it not like it will be raining on the battle field, but I am pretty sure he can still deal pretty easily with that or awakened mochi, but he wont only go for one opponent while the other will sit around, I did mentioned they will take him out with a strategy. But he need to burn through their advanced armament before if he wants to burn the biscuits and mochi, it wont as easy as it sounds.

    Also, thats not right, you are comparing Marco and Vista when they were mentally broke with other healthy commanders.


  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by Zu View Post
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    Why would there be a large gap between them?
    one is the strongest crew among the yonkos and the other is the weakest, so that should make a considerable gap between them IMO.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Whitebeard View Post
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    They don't have the firepower to defeat Akainu. Katakuri is the strongest and he can't even beat base Luffy despite using Awakening for 9 hours straight. Akainu burns them all.
    I agree that Akainu wins, but aren't you neglecting that Luffy has powered up?



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