Page 4 of 4 FirstFirst ... 234
Results 61 to 78 of 78
  1. #61
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    probably should be considered that the duration for luffy's snakeman was so short because of his depleted stamina

    exhaustion and injuries may not weaken his attacks, but it does limit the amount of time he's able to maintain his gears

    also, the larger portion of the fight was fought while luffy was in base, iirc. luffy would need g4 to put kata down but he shouldn't need it to exhaust him to the point he was at before the final clash. not to mention, now that luffy's haki has evolved he wouldn't be fighting as much of an uphill battle from the beginning this time.
    ^this



  2. #62
    Knight of Romance Heart's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    14,519
    Y's point is that if they both start at full health, katakuri can outlast gear 4th, which I agree with

    - - - Updated - - -

    actually, he can probably writtle him down without gear 4th first enough though

  3. #63
    Resist the Flesh Minty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Arzareth
    Posts
    8,958
    Quote Originally Posted by Shota Aizawa View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    @Dayum; @Minty; what do you guys think?
    I believe at 100% in a rematch, Luffy would beat Katakuri.

    In the fight that happened, Luffy was already fatigued and beat up going into the fight and he allowed Katakuri to hit him for free most of the fight because he was focused on breaking the mirrors. When Luffy decided to fight back, it didn't take long for him to figure out how to beat Katakuri.

    Luffy seemed to be the overall stronger, more durable, and smarter fighter.


    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    I'd say without their captains the Whitebeards would be slightly stronger than the Red-Hairs and with their captains they'd be significantly stronger.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    It's pretty obvious no Emperor was a real threat to Whitebeard. He just had too much power and influence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Raigou apparently can't even destroy an island, which Whitebeard can do easily.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Obviously it was because of Whitebeard, but the crew even without the captain is still highly exceptional. If you take away the captains, the Whitebeard's would beat any Emperor crew decisively.
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Vista can fight Whitebeard,

  4. #64
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    probably should be considered that the duration for luffy's snakeman was so short because of his depleted stamina

    exhaustion and injuries may not weaken his attacks, but it does limit the amount of time he's able to maintain his gears

    also, the larger portion of the fight was fought while luffy was in base, iirc. luffy would need g4 to put kata down but he shouldn't need it to exhaust him to the point he was at before the final clash. not to mention, now that luffy's haki has evolved he wouldn't be fighting as much of an uphill battle from the beginning this time.
    I agree that his snakeman duration could probably be longer if he activates it sooner with less injuries. You would also have to take into account that Katakuri will have more stamina left the earlier Luffy activates it though.

    Also if Katakuri would be serious from the get go and would use his full arsenal including awakening and spiked mochi I dont see Luffy lasting that long in base since Kata was able to keep up even with snakeman when he actually faced it.

    This could be the end of it too.




  5. #65
    Just like against Doflamingo, I suspect Katakuri is stronger at this point but during Wano Luffy will surpass him and during/after the Kaido fight he will be squarely above him. I suspect his next powerup will be awakening and by then everyone will be saying how he fodderizes Katakuri - which is always a trend despite Oda shoving it in our faces that old villains aren't to be taken lightly and only were defeated by a lot of plot. Even if they would be defeated by a slightly later version of Luffy they wouldn't get swept and would be able to hold their own.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Sensei View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Katakuri probably didn’t had that small time span to use awakening attacks from the air with the high tempo fight between Snakeman and himself.
    I'm not sure why he wouldn't if he had time to be throwing out giant haymakers and such, it's not like there's an excessively long startup or anything. He could have utilized it similar to how Doflamingo did to help him stall out Gear 4th and that would have been helpful since a tool to immobilize the speed based form would be a great benefit.

    Even if that argument was true though, Katakuri didn't just opt out of awakening when Snakeman was introduced, he just seemed to stop using it entirely even when he was just slugging it out with base form Luffy where he held a large advantage and had him on the back foot but was struggling to gain clean hits. I'm not sure if that was part of his whole "honor" thing where he wanted to beat Luffy in a raw slugfest with no tricks, but it struck me as sort of a parasite situation where Oda gives the villain a really useful and tricky ability to deal with and then conveniently forget about it so he doesn't have to try writing his way around it.

  7. #67
    Yeah....even though Katakuri still has this and that, at this point I don't think it's possible for him to win against Luffy.
    http://www.millenniumforums.com/signaturepics/sigpic461_1.gif

  8. #68
    MO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    In your heart
    Posts
    1,221
    how is it not possible for him to win against luffy?

  9. #69
    Well, we just saw the fight, right? Katakuri threw everything he had at Luffy and couldn't keep him down and even Base Luffy got to a point to where he could do reasonably handle Katakuri's attacks and evade several of them. The biggest detriment to Katakuri was the self-inflicted wound he did in order to make up for Flambe's interference. Without her being in the equation though, Luffy probably wouldn't of been hit with that attack anyway though. So what can Katakuri do? The biggest issue is G4. Even though Luffy can now move around just fine after using G4, it seems that he still can't use haki. This will make it very difficult for him to defend against Katakuri but how much different will it be from when he first started fighting Katakuri before his Observation started to match the First Mate's own?

    Luffy can pretty much take everything that Katakuri has all day long and be able to retaliate with G4 attacks. Katakuri, on the other hand, took a few hits from Base Luffy but seemed to only be able to withstand a round of Boundman and Snakeman before throwing in the towel and I don't see how Luffy can't emulate the same win he just did but now with better Observation and more experience.
    http://www.millenniumforums.com/signaturepics/sigpic461_1.gif

  10. #70
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifista View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Well, we just saw the fight, right? Katakuri threw everything he had at Luffy and couldn't keep him down and even Base Luffy got to a point to where he could do reasonably handle Katakuri's attacks and evade several of them. The biggest detriment to Katakuri was the self-inflicted wound he did in order to make up for Flambe's interference. Without her being in the equation though, Luffy probably wouldn't of been hit with that attack anyway though. So what can Katakuri do? The biggest issue is G4. Even though Luffy can now move around just fine after using G4, it seems that he still can't use haki. This will make it very difficult for him to defend against Katakuri but how much different will it be from when he first started fighting Katakuri before his Observation started to match the First Mate's own?

    Luffy can pretty much take everything that Katakuri has all day long and be able to retaliate with G4 attacks. Katakuri, on the other hand, took a few hits from Base Luffy but seemed to only be able to withstand a round of Boundman and Snakeman before throwing in the towel and I don't see how Luffy can't emulate the same win he just did but now with better Observation and more experience.
    When did he develop this exactly? I keep seeing this but all I saw was the use of the observation Haki he was always supposed to have but only now came into the picture.

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Dayum View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    When did he develop this exactly? I keep seeing this but all I saw was the use of the observation Haki he was always supposed to have but only now came into the picture.
    His Observation started to match Katakuri's own not long after he returned to the MirrorWorld. Now it didn't look any different and we weren't really shown much difference for various reasons but that's when he was supposedly increasing his Observation abilities, as commented by Katakuri.
    http://www.millenniumforums.com/signaturepics/sigpic461_1.gif

  12. #72
    MO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    In your heart
    Posts
    1,221
    he didn't use everything he had. Instead of trying to tag Luffy with his trident and missing he could have easily trapped him in mochi and just stab him but he didn't, instead he constantly kept chased him which was PIS. he literally allowed luffy to enter snakeman in which he could have easily stopped him like he did when luffy wanted to enter it the first time and just kill him but no "honour". He was still able to deal with snakeman speed pretty easily and his armanent is still above luffy. He liteally didn't even use awakening during his fight with snakeman and was dealing with it fine. In this fight he is fresh there is no self inflected wound and there is no merienda or brulee. Katakuri isn't going to have a monologue everytime luffy is on the floor instead of killing him. He isn't going outright tell luffy to stand up and let him like he did 2 chapters ago. There is no pis in this fight.
    Last edited by MO; 03-04-2018 at 03:58 AM.

  13. #73
    The Special One Aether's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2017
    Posts
    6,151
    Quote Originally Posted by MO View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    he didn't use everything he had. Instead of trying to tag Luffy with his trident and missing he could have easily trapped him in mochi and just stab him but he didn't, instead he constantly kept chased him which was PIS. he literally allowed luffy to enter snakeman in which he could have easily stopped him like he did when luffy wanted to enter it the first time and just kill him but no "honour". He was still able to deal with snakeman speed pretty easily and his armanent is still above luffy. He liteally didn't even use awakening during his fight with snakeman and was dealing with it fine. In this fight he is fresh there is no self inflected wound and there is no merienda or brulee. Katakuri isn't going to have a monologue everytime luffy is on the floor instead of killing him. He isn't going outright tell luffy to stand up and let him like he did 2 chapters ago. There is no pis in this fight.
    Yea he wanted to get rid of Luffy at first but later he gained respect for Luffy so he just wanted to have a good fight.


  14. #74
    Quote Originally Posted by MO View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    he didn't use everything he had. Instead of trying to tag Luffy with his trident and missing he could have easily trapped him in mochi and just stab him but he didn't, instead he constantly kept chased him which was PIS. he literally allowed luffy to enter snakeman in which he could have easily stopped him like he did when luffy wanted to enter it the first time and just kill him but no "honour". He was still able to deal with snakeman speed pretty easily and his armanent is still above luffy. He liteally didn't even use awakening during his fight with snakeman and was dealing with it fine. In this fight he is fresh there is no self inflected wound and there is no merienda or brulee. Katakuri isn't going to have a monologue everytime luffy is on the floor instead of killing him. He isn't going outright tell luffy to stand up and let him like he did 2 chapters ago. There is no pis in this fight.
    But he did use everything he had. I don't mean everything at the exact same time but he mirrored Luffy's attacks, used his trident, used Awakening, used Strength Mochi, used Peerless Donuts, used advanced Observation----everything available to him he used and none of them could keep Luffy down. Also, I wouldn't say he dealt with Snakeman's speed easily. It was a back and forth battle. He may of held the edge but Luffy was taking everything that Katakuri threw at him and kept going while landing good blows of his own. Even with Katakuri's superior Observation and Hardening, he couldn't stop Luffy. And the self-inflicted wound is irrelevant since he only landed the trident on Luffy because of Flambe's interference. Not sure I agree withKatakuri dealing with Snakeman just fine when it just defeated him.

    Even if we take out the PIS, Luffy can take whatever Katakuri throws at him and literally take it all day. He can also dodge many of those same attacks. The only real tricky part is Awakening as it seemed to hold Luffy down pretty well early in the battle but how well will that work out here? I'm not so convinced right now that Katakuri can take Luffy down as his only viable option would be Awakening but even with that, Luffy might be too quick now to be caught or be able to get out of it another way (there have been two times in which he's been completely constrained by mochi that Luffy has found a way out of so there's a bit of a precedent for it). In other words, with how Luffy has been portrayed, I don't see Katakuri winning in a rematch against a now much stronger and more experienced Luffy. If this were a rematch without PIS against the same Luffy who started the fight then I'd agree that Katakuri is the winner but Luffy grew an incredible amount in this one battle.
    http://www.millenniumforums.com/signaturepics/sigpic461_1.gif

  15. #75
    MO's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2016
    Location
    In your heart
    Posts
    1,221
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifista View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    But he did use everything he had. I don't mean everything at the exact same time but he mirrored Luffy's attacks, used his trident, used Awakening, used Strength Mochi, used Peerless Donuts, used advanced Observation----everything available to him he used and none of them could keep Luffy down. Also, I wouldn't say he dealt with Snakeman's speed easily. It was a back and forth battle. He may of held the edge but Luffy was taking everything that Katakuri threw at him and kept going while landing good blows of his own. Even with Katakuri's superior Observation and Hardening, he couldn't stop Luffy. And the self-inflicted wound is irrelevant since he only landed the trident on Luffy because of Flambe's interference. Not sure I agree withKatakuri dealing with Snakeman just fine when it just defeated him.

    Even if we take out the PIS, Luffy can take whatever Katakuri throws at him and literally take it all day. He can also dodge many of those same attacks. The only real tricky part is Awakening as it seemed to hold Luffy down pretty well early in the battle but how well will that work out here? I'm not so convinced right now that Katakuri can take Luffy down as his only viable option would be Awakening but even with that, Luffy might be too quick now to be caught or be able to get out of it another way (there have been two times in which he's been completely constrained by mochi that Luffy has found a way out of so there's a bit of a precedent for it). In other words, with how Luffy has been portrayed, I don't see Katakuri winning in a rematch against a now much stronger and more experienced Luffy. If this were a rematch without PIS against the same Luffy who started the fight then I'd agree that Katakuri is the winner but Luffy grew an incredible amount in this one battle.
    his trident can put luffy down easily if he lands it which he can if he uses his awakening. He dealth with snakeman pretty easily. It took him a minute or two to fugire but after that he was dealing with it fine. Even cleanly dodge a ultra speed gatling version. He lost not just because of snakeman but all the accumilated damage in the fight.

    and he can't actually take it all day since he was on the floor many times in the fight but katakuri allowed to get back up(which he won't in this fight).His awakening would still trap luffy. There is nothing that says he can't. The first time jinbei helped and the second time he got trap and couldn't move. Only survive because katakuri tried suffocate him instead of stabbing him. He isn't to fast either since he got stuck literally last chapter in snakeman.I still don't see him winning against a serious bloodlusted katakuri without pis or plot armor.

  16. #76
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifista View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    His Observation started to match Katakuri's own not long after he returned to the MirrorWorld. Now it didn't look any different and we weren't really shown much difference for various reasons but that's when he was supposedly increasing his Observation abilities, as commented by Katakuri.
    He never saw multiple seconds in the future. He literally just showed us what Sandersonia did long ago and we were told he should have been able to do when he returned to SA. Just weird portrayal if that was supposed to look like an upgrade...and where did Kata's CoO go? He couldn't predict how Culverine worked?

  17. #77
    Quote Originally Posted by Dayum View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    He never saw multiple seconds in the future. He literally just showed us what Sandersonia did long ago and we were told he should have been able to do when he returned to SA. Just weird portrayal if that was supposed to look like an upgrade...and where did Kata's CoO go? He couldn't predict how Culverine worked?
    To be honest, I don't disagree with you at all. I think the exact same but apparently that's not what Oda wants us to get from it so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
    http://www.millenniumforums.com/signaturepics/sigpic461_1.gif

  18. #78
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifista View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    To be honest, I don't disagree with you at all. I think the exact same but apparently that's not what Oda wants us to get from it so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.
    Yeah I'm not pressing you at all. I'm just questioning how it was depicted and what to take from this fight.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •