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  1. #41
    Katakuri wins.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Y View Post
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    Well sure, but you're missing the point.

    If Luffys attacks didn't weaken due injuries, which they never did and most definitely didn't here either, but just his durability it doesn't matter much.

    Katakuri being already badly hurt allowed G4 to very, very barerly take him down before the time limit was up, if Kata is full that won't be enough. Once G4 runs out Katakuri is going to ragdoll him.
    i just fking showed that he wasn't nearly half as hurt as luffy, stop exaggerating using terms like "badly hurt".
    also, if "you think" that Luffy's attacks didn't get effected, then why the hell you're assuming Kata's attacks did? i can argue for the same in case of Kata that his attacks also didn't get effected right? which means he also used his full potential and ultimately Luffy beated him in the end fair and square.
    Last edited by Shota Aizawa; 03-02-2018 at 07:30 PM.



  3. #43
    Sincerely Insincere Y's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shota Aizawa View Post
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    i just fking showed that he wasn't nearly half as hurt as luffy, stop exaggerating using terms like "badly hurt".
    also, if "you think" that Luffy's attacks didn't get effected, then why the hell you're assuming Kata's attacks did? i can argue for the same in case of Kata that his attacks also didn't get effected right?
    You did, and I explained to you why it doesn't matter in this scenario. I don't think Katas attacks got affected either. Nice strawman attempt, though.

    Dude stabbed his abdomen obviously he's 'badly hurt' not sure what definition you're using for damage here.

    Read the post you replied to again. The main point is Katakuris durability wasn't anywhere close top performance and G4 only managed to put him own in the timeframe because of his already lowered endurance, Luffy ran out of time the very instant he connected the deciding blow, wether or not Luffy was more hurt doesn't matter.

    If Katakuri still stands afer G4 it's over for Luffy.

    and yeah, Oda sure as hell potrayed their injuries as pretty close, but for the sake of argument we can assume Luffy was in way worse condition, and it doesn't refute what I'm saying, buddy.



    Last edited by Y; 03-02-2018 at 07:34 PM.


  4. #44
    Dude stabbed his abdomen obviously he's 'badly hurt' not sure what definition you're using for damage here.
    I used Luffy's injuries as reference, tell me if Kata had more injury than Luffy i'll fking prove it again.

    The main point is Katakuris durability wasn't anywhere close top performance and G4 only managed to put him own in the timeframe because of his already lowered endurance
    i dare you to prove those points instead of just stating your opinion.



  5. #45
    Sincerely Insincere Y's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shota Aizawa View Post
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    I used Luffy's injuries as reference, tell me if Kata had more injury than Luffy i'll fking prove it again.



    i dare you to prove those points instead of just stating your opinion.
    Couple things wrong here,

    I never claimed Katakuris injuries are worse than Luffys. My point never relied on their injuries being even related. It relies on Katakuries being exhausted at all.

    In fact I just said it doesn't matter, which you chose to ignore, then you chose to ignore Odas potrayal.

    The only important thing is that he is injured which is blatant.

    If you're seriously trying to say Katas stamina did not suffer after being visibly blodied and huffing and puffing at that point in time while Oda also using stylistic choices he historically used for fatigue I don't even know anymore.


    If you actually started bringing any argument at all that does not rely on you twisting my words or straight up lying that'd be great, tho.


  6. #46
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    Katakuri should win if they were to fight again in my opinion but for the sake of story progression next time we see Luffy I wouldn't put it past me for him to beat someone on Katakuri's level in a fair fight.


  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Y View Post
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    I never claimed Katakuris injuries are worse than Luffys. My point never relied on their injuries being even related. It relies on Katakuries being exhausted at all.
    What the actual fuck?

    he was never shown exhausted before the awakening, it was Luffy on the other hand who was exhausted and beaten

    In fact I just said it doesn't matter, which you chose to ignore, then you chose to ignore Odas potrayal.
    idk the spoiler is broken , so i didn't bother.

    If you're seriously trying to say Katas stamina did not suffer after being visibly blodied and huffing and puffing at that point in time while Oda also using stylistic choices he historically used for fatigue I don't even know anymore.
    I wanna make this clear first, by the text i bolded you meant to describe his injury right? also there was no huffing and puffing, so stop making things up or rather show me scans

    If you actually started bringing any argument at all that does not rely on you twisting my words or straight up lying that'd be great, tho.
    only if you make any sentence that is not just based on your opinion and actually provide some proof to back up your opinion.
    Last edited by Shota Aizawa; 03-02-2018 at 09:05 PM.



  8. #48
    Sincerely Insincere Y's Avatar
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    Okay I'll just

    say this one last time. If you don't get it by then I honestly don't feel like wasting my time anymore.

    None of this is opinionated either;

    1. Katakuri was exhausted by the time Luffy entered Snakeman. No idea where you pulled the arbitary point in time from in your post but you saying I stated X when I didn't happened a couple times now, so I'm not going to bother.
    The guy is blodied all over, breathing heavily.
    [/SP

    2. Luffy barerly managed to finish him off within G4s timelimit.



    The entire point being made here is that Luffy only managed to put Katakuri down in the timelimit is because the latter was not on the height of his stamina, which is a fact. It never relied on Luffy being injured.

    If you still fail to properly address this I'm honestly done, it's getting kind of frustrating.
    Last edited by Y; 03-02-2018 at 08:13 PM.


  9. #49
    Quote Originally Posted by Y View Post
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    Okay I'll just

    say this one last time. If you don't get it by then I honestly don't feel like wasting my time anymore.

    None of this is opinionated either;

    1. Katakuri was exhausted by the time Luffy entered Snakeman. No idea where you pulled the arbitary point in time from in your post but you saying I stated X when I didn't happened a couple times now, so I'm not going to bother.
    The guy is blodied all over, breathing heavily.
    [/SP
    WHY ON EARTH YOU'RE IGNORING THOSE POINTS FOR LUFFY??????? WHO'S CLEARLY MORE DAMAGED AND MORE EXHAUSTED THAN KATA!!!

    that's what i'm arguing abt this whole time!!

    You said injury is not the point, it's the decrease in strength, endurance and potential of Kata
    also when i said abt those things for Luffy, you said "it doesn't look like he was lacking any strength" which is again just a fking opinion.

    so basically, you just want those factors to be considered for Kata and not for Luffy, cuz u just don't wanna accept that Luffy literally got stronger drastically and fking beated a Kata level character fair and square.

    2. Luffy barerly managed to finish him off within G4s timelimit.



    The entire point being made here is that Luffy only managed to put Katakuri down in the timelimit is because the latter was not on the height of his stamina, which is a fact. It never relied on Luffy being injured.
    How the hell you can conclude that? so if Kata was not full of his stamina so that proves Luffy's injuries doesn't matter? seriously what bullshit is this? those two are completely unrelated things.
    Last edited by Shota Aizawa; 03-02-2018 at 08:45 PM.



  10. #50
    Sincerely Insincere Y's Avatar
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    Are you illiterate?

    It's not opinionated that Katakuri was exhausted, it's not opinionated that Luffy barely took him down within G4s timelimit.
    Luffys injuries don't matter because once G4 runs out he's done for and we historically know they don't decrease his attack power.
    The only thing Luffys injuries factor in for in this fight was he could've gone down to Katakuri sooner.


    I'm not having a hard time accepting anything, you're just having a hard time comprehending what I'm trying to say. You're not even making a point. I never claimed a decrease in strength either.
    I'm also pretty sure Luffy is going to be able to beat Katakuri blantantly given some time, I really don't care that much.

    You haven't managed to address this point once and once again resorted to a strawman argument.
    Buddy, I'm not sure if it's because you seem to be really invested into this which is pretty evident from the way you're behaving or because you actually don't get what I'm saying, but please.

    I'll be more than happy to have a sophisticated debate when you manage to actually address what I'm saying but you're just... not doing that.


  11. #51
    if you can't accept the fact that Luffy has gotten stronger and beated Kata without any advantage on his side then i can't help you.

    *hasta la vista



  12. #52
    Sincerely Insincere Y's Avatar
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    I never argued either.


  13. #53
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    kata wins. He was dealing with snakeman pretty fine and with him being fresh he will definitely outlast it. Thus killing luffy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Shota Aizawa View Post
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    if you can't accept the fact that Luffy has gotten stronger and beated Kata without any advantage on his side then i can't help you.

    *hasta la vista
    without advantages? He took brulee and ran mid fight. If it wasn't for merienda he would have never hit katakuri. there was a lot of pis and plot armor in this fight that prevented luffy from getting outright killed.

  14. #54
    tbh, Katakuri wasnt even going 100% from the beginning. Mainly because he never had a harder fight than this as he was never stated to be defeated. He only went 100% when Luffy went in snakeman as he had no other choice but that was already too late for him as he was badly injured as well.

    If its a rematch, Katakuri will obviously go 100% from the beginning and Luffy's only option is to use snakeman if he doesnt want to get utterly destroyed. And I am pretty sure he could fight way longer against snakeman than he did, due to plot, injuries and other stuffs, perhaps even for days. And eventually Luffy would run out of haki, and thats how Luffy will lose.

    Well that is if Katakuri lets him go G4


  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by MO View Post
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    without advantages? He took brulee and ran mid fight. If it wasn't for merienda he would have never hit katakuri. there was a lot of pis and plot armor in this fight that prevented luffy from getting outright killed.
    ya sure.



  16. #56
    Quote Originally Posted by Aether View Post
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    tbh, Katakuri wasnt even going 100% from the beginning. Mainly because he never had a harder fight than this as he was never stated to be defeated. He only went 100% when Luffy went in snakeman as he had no other choice but that was already too late for him as he was badly injured as well.
    Dude, even you?
    don't you think Luffy's injuries should be considered too? also he was way more exhausted than Kata that he was barely even standing.

    If its a rematch, Katakuri will obviously go 100% from the beginning and Luffy's only option is to use snakeman if he doesnt want to get utterly destroyed. And I am pretty sure he could fight way longer against snakeman than he did, due to plot, injuries and other stuffs, perhaps even for days. And eventually Luffy would run out of haki, and thats how Luffy will lose.
    Why don't think that Luffy increased his G4 span? from the moment he was severely injured and exhausted where he was barely conscious, he transformed into G4 managed to keep up with Kata through the whole fight and even beated him, don't you think that clearly expresses his G4 span has also increased?


    @Dayum; @Minty; what do you guys think?



  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Shota Aizawa View Post
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    Dude, even you?
    don't you think Luffy's injuries should be considered too? also he was way more exhausted than Kata that he was barely even standing.


    Why don't think that Luffy increased his G4 span? from the moment he was severely injured and exhausted where he was barely conscious, he transformed into G4 managed to keep up with Kata through the whole fight and even beated him, don't you think that clearly expresses his G4 span has also increased?


    @Dayum; @Minty; what do you guys think?
    I am not ignoring that, bro. But tell me, didnt Oda state that Katakuri had never faced defeat? yes or no? It has been implied multiple times that katakuri had never fought anyone as tough as Luffy or even if he did, we could assume it wasnt at least all out brawl until one loses. The whole thing with his donut break(or whatever) is also an implication to that.

    My argument isnt about who was more injured or who took more beating. Coz both of them were almost in the same condition(not saying Katakuri have as much endurance as Luffy). But my point is, up until now before facing Luffy, all the fights he had, he never went 100% against any opponent as he was never defeated/fell down/touched his back. He either dominated or never had a fight to death where he had to go all out. At best he had used 70% of his strength. Could be less or more but never 100%. What I am trying to say is Katakuri matched against snakeman almost similarly to how he treated base Luffy. There wasnt any big difference between their fighting before and after snakeman. Yes, he did caught off guard by snakeman's speed at first but he did cope up with that later. So if he used his highest up to that point(70%) against base Luffy, he had to use 100% against snakeman. Coz base Luffy and snakeman cant be equal or even close.

    also dont forget, that Katakuri allowed Luffy to go G4.

    And dont take the percentages seriously, those are just examples.


  18. #58
    WORST MANIPULATOR Efege's Avatar
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    Jesus

    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
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    Fair enough

    I accept

    2 week avatar bet
    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
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    Yeah,sure..
    Quote Originally Posted by Aether View Post
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    alright

  19. #59
    King of Connect 4 DoflaMihawk's Avatar
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    I think Luffy surpassing Katakuri is the message Oda was trying to convey here. Reminded me of the Crocodile fight; Luffy started off at far from 100% yet he gained important information mid-fight, which allowed him to overcome seemingly impossible odds and emerge victorious.

    It was a bit messier this time as Oda compressed it all into one fight, but the takeaway is the same IMO.

  20. #60
    Pretty Flacko Jr. Tokio's Avatar
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    probably should be considered that the duration for luffy's snakeman was so short because of his depleted stamina

    exhaustion and injuries may not weaken his attacks, but it does limit the amount of time he's able to maintain his gears

    also, the larger portion of the fight was fought while luffy was in base, iirc. luffy would need g4 to put kata down but he shouldn't need it to exhaust him to the point he was at before the final clash. not to mention, now that luffy's haki has evolved he wouldn't be fighting as much of an uphill battle from the beginning this time.
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