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  1. #21
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    Katakuri lacks the fire power to take her down so she either starves or somehow defeats him before that, if BM can hold on without starving for a long time then she undoubtedly wins.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    If we were to take the complete and utter tier busting bullshit that happened in chapter 890 seriously, then katakuri would stomp, seeing how mid high tiers and below were reacting to BMs attacks and landing hits on her
    I highly doubt that, tagging an attack is one thing and how much damage did they actually make is another thing.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    You dont think Strength Mochi>>>>Vagabond Drill in every way?

    If shark skin could temporarily withstand cognac, than flowing mochi should be able to subdue her no problem. From there katakuri can follow up with mochi thrusts, strength mochi, raindrop mochi, enlarged fists and a multitude of other attacks to bring her down
    How can you scale? We don't have any feats of post skip Jimbei to judge his powerlevel.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    The fact that jinbe didn't get straight up blitzed and was able to tag big mam is utter fucking bullshit, and there is no justifying that.
    She wasn't focused, all she had on her mind was cake, same thing happens when your gf goes blah blah blah but all you think about is sex sex sex and you don't see a big fat bill of her jewellery coming.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zentos View Post
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    I'll ask you a question I've already asked Kong but he was happy to shift the goal post.

    Chapter 878, Luffy enters the mirror world completely fine:


    Chapter 879, the first time we see Luffy's face he's already bloodied up:


    End of chapter 879, Luffy is down:


    How does someone who has the power to beat you to a pulp in mere minutes fail to finish you after 10 hours of continuous attacks? Does Luffy enter some invincibility mode once he's reached his limit, or how does this work? Why didn't it take Kata hours to rough Luffy up, instead he had him at his mercy momentarily and yet he just cannot put him down. Just explain this one fight.
    It has been clearly portrayed that Kata wants to enjoy the fight, he's testing Luffy that how far he can go.

    We really shouldn't make any battle threads including Kata until the actual fight in manga gets over.

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Shota Aizawa View Post
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    I highly doubt that, tagging an attack is one thing and how much damage did they actually make is another thing.


    How can you scale? We don't have any feats of post skip Jimbei to judge his powerlevel.


    She wasn't focused, all she had on her mind was cake, same thing happens when your gf goes blah blah blah but all you think about is sex sex sex and you don't see a big fat bill of her jewellery coming.



    It has been clearly portrayed that Kata wants to enjoy the fight, he's testing Luffy that how far he can go.

    We really shouldn't make any battle threads including Kata until the actual fight in manga gets over.
    Why would post skip Jinbe be stronger than his pre skip self?

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Whitebeard View Post
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    Why would post skip Jinbe be stronger than his pre skip self?
    Have we seen his vagabond drill before the time-skip?

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Shota Aizawa View Post
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    Have we seen his vagabond drill before the time-skip?
    Nope, but we know he is about equal to rookie Ace and I don't think his Vangabond Drill is any stronger than Ace's Entei against Blackbeard and I'm being extremely generous here.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Whitebeard View Post
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    Nope, but we know he is about equal to rookie Ace and I don't think his Vangabond Drill is any stronger than Ace's Entei against Blackbeard and I'm being extremely generous here.
    Ohk.

  7. #27
    Starving may not be as physically strong as regular BM. Yet her attacks which use Zeus and Prometheus aren’t really effected as far as it seems. It should be enough to overwhelm Katakuri who seems to lack offensive power.


  8. #28
    Starving out Big Mom might be difficult because Katakuri fights with mochi, and if Big Mom is willing then she can just sustain herself on that and potentially get herself back in the game in higher form if she consumes enough of it.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Great Potato View Post
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    Starving out Big Mom might be difficult because Katakuri fights with mochi, and if Big Mom is willing then she can just sustain herself on that and potentially get herself back in the game in higher form if she consumes enough of it.
    Good point. If she pulls of what Luffy did Katakuri doesn’t stand much of a chance.


  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shota Aizawa View Post
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    I highly doubt that, tagging an attack is one thing and how much damage did they actually make is another thing.


    How can you scale? We don't have any feats of post skip Jimbei to judge his powerlevel.


    She wasn't focused, all she had on her mind was cake, same thing happens when your gf goes blah blah blah but all you think about is sex sex sex and you don't see a big fat bill of her jewellery coming.



    It has been clearly portrayed that Kata wants to enjoy the fight, he's testing Luffy that how far he can go.

    We really shouldn't make any battle threads including Kata until the actual fight in manga gets over.
    Lets just say id be very surprised if there wasn't a massive difference, seeing how katakuri>>>>>>jinbe in terms of overall strength and power is jinbes specialty.

    She WAS seriously trying to take out jinbe, and she failed miserably.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifista View Post
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    He's the strongest person in the Big Mom crew aside from Big Mom herself, comparable to any other First Mate.



    It's really funny how you're so smug for absolutely no reason. Imaginary tier list? Oda himself wrote One Piece a very specific way for literally around a decade and a half. All I and several other members did was see how Oda compared his own characters to each other and understood how he himself placed them. Did that make it 100% accurate? No. But it was by and large pretty straight forward. Recently (creepings of it happened around the Whitebeard War but nothing so substantial until Punk Hazard), however, things changed.

    So you can act all high and mighty if you want to because things are the way you've always thought they were now but that doesn't change how things were then. I still remember when people said that Luffy could beat Aokiji once he learned Gear 2. Being that guy and being all triumphant because you're finally affirmed in your own beliefs thanks to recent times says absolutely nothing about your vision and is not only petty, but sad and overall disingenuous in how you present it.

    Of course, you'll just ignore all of this and continue to scream your own praises but understand that your crap isn't going to be sold here. You'll have to keep that with you.
    So people like marco and Beckman wouldn't be able to put down a gravely injured base luffy for good either?






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  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    Lets just say id be very surprised if there wasn't a massive difference, seeing how katakuri>>>>>>jinbe in terms of overall strength and power is jinbes specialty.
    ohk, but it wouldn't make much of a difference in case of Kata either, even after all those attacks including lightning ones too, they didn't manage to give her a single injury.

    She WAS seriously trying to take out jinbe, and she failed miserably.
    No, the moment Jinbe attacked her she was literally asking for the cake.


    We know what happened when she literally tried to take out Jinbe

  12. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shota Aizawa View Post
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    ohk, but it wouldn't make much of a difference in case of Kata either, even after all those attacks including lightning ones too, they didn't manage to give her a single injury.



    No, the moment Jinbe attacked her she was literally asking for the cake.


    We know what happened when she literally tried to take out Jinbe
    Doesn't matter. She saw that jinbe was attacking him, and still got tagged in the end.

    It doesn't make sense to say that BM allowed herself to get hit by Vagabond drill. Remember, she was desperate for food and jinbe was hindering her from looking for the cake. If she wanted to eat as soon as possible, then it stands to reason that shed try to get rid of anything delaying her from finding the cake. BM would have accomplished this much faster by cutting down/swatting away Jinbe as opposed to simply tanking his attack, and as a yonkou, she should have had no difficulty blitzing him up, yet she wasn't able to do so

    Theres no denying it, Vagabond drill should NOT have landed under any circumstances






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  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    So people like marco and Beckman wouldn't be able to put down a gravely injured base luffy for good either?
    Oda is answering that currently. In this situation? No. Luffy is about to take out a Yonkou in the next story arc. He's now someone that can't be swept aside even by the strongest people in the world because....he just can't. The ONLY people that this *may* still be definitively stronger than him that wouldn't need 8 hours of near constant beating up on him to win are the Yonkou themselves but again, Katakuri is going down soon and Kaidou the next story arc. Marco, Beckman, Shiryuu (maybe not the First Mate but probably the 2nd Strongest after Blackbeard) can't put Luffy down so easily.
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifista View Post
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    Oda is answering that currently. In this situation? No. Luffy is about to take out a Yonkou in the next story arc. He's now someone that can't be swept aside even by the strongest people in the world because....he just can't. The ONLY people that this *may* still be definitively stronger than him that wouldn't need 8 hours of near constant beating up on him to win are the Yonkou themselves but again, Katakuri is going down soon and Kaidou the next story arc. Marco, Beckman, Shiryuu (maybe not the First Mate but probably the 2nd Strongest after Blackbeard) can't put Luffy down so easily.
    Yet someone weaker than everyone you listed in cracker had g2/3 luffy definitively beaten and at his mercy.

    Can you account for that, or is this just a case of inconsistent writing by oda, because you seem to have lost all faith in OP and I don't know what powerlevel views you hold anymore
    Last edited by ReXDrake; 02-14-2018 at 08:24 AM.






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  15. #35
    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    Yet someone weaker than everyone you listed in cracker had g2/3 luffy definitively beaten and at his mercy.

    Can you account for that, or is this just a case of inconsistent writing by oda, because you seem to have lost all faith in OP and I don't know what powerlevel views you hold anymore
    I think I've told you before that I don't think Cracker is *that* much weaker than Katakuri at all and that the 8 hour long fight (or however long fight it was) that they had now makes sense looking at the same fight with Katakuri. Luffy just can't be put down for good. Well, unless we're talking about the enraged army but that's another story, of course.

    Plus, now he gets stronger in the middle of the fight in massive ways whereas before it was more of him finding a way to beat his opponent whether at their own game (Enel, Foxy, Oars and Moria) and/or pushing himself to the limit in opponents that are truly powerful (Crocodile, Lucci) with the massive growth coming from having had the fight. He's going to walk out of this fight with Observation on the same level as Katakuri which has been put on such a high pedestal that it's almost ridiculous. Luffy can't be ignored by anyone and the entirety of the Big Mom pirates are testament to that.

    Mind, it's not that I dislike Luffy growing in the middle of the fight. It's just the way that it's being presented right now that's more than I'd like but that's water under the bridge now. It's not that I've lost all faith in OP. I just care about the fighting aspect as much as Oda does.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifista View Post
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    I think I've told you before that I don't think Cracker is *that* much weaker than Katakuri at all and that the 8 hour long fight (or however long fight it was) that they had now makes sense looking at the same fight with Katakuri. Luffy just can't be put down for good. Well, unless we're talking about the enraged army but that's another story, of course.

    Plus, now he gets stronger in the middle of the fight in massive ways whereas before it was more of him finding a way to beat his opponent whether at their own game (Enel, Foxy, Oars and Moria) and/or pushing himself to the limit in opponents that are truly powerful (Crocodile, Lucci) with the massive growth coming from having had the fight. He's going to walk out of this fight with Observation on the same level as Katakuri which has been put on such a high pedestal that it's almost ridiculous. Luffy can't be ignored by anyone and the entirety of the Big Mom pirates are testament to that.

    Mind, it's not that I dislike Luffy growing in the middle of the fight. It's just the way that it's being presented right now that's more than I'd like but that's water under the bridge now. It's not that I've lost all faith in OP. I just care about the fighting aspect as much as Oda does.
    Unless youre willing to continue our previous discussion, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about how cracker stacks up to katakuri, because I certainly see the gap between them being noticeable and will not accept that non g4 luffy was able to engage cracker for 11 straight hours.






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  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    Unless youre willing to continue our previous discussion, I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree about how cracker stacks up to katakuri, because I certainly see the gap between them being noticeable and will not accept that non g4 luffy was able to engage cracker for 11 straight hours.
    I'll put it this way; if Katakuri is 100 then Cracker is like an 85-87 with *possibly* harder armament, less impressive Observation and is a glass cannon which is the biggest detriment of course. So in effect, Katakuri looks a lot better in comparison since he can actually take a hit. If Cracker wasn't a glass cannon then the only thing that would seem to separate him from Katakuri would be Observation which really hasn't helped Katakuri all too much against Luffy, to be honest.

    And I mean, non G4 Luffy is doing just fine right now. He's more of a punching bag than anything but he's still there and a portion of that was with him being attacked by Flambe. Against Cracker he had a slew of help but you can see a clear progression in how Oda is presenting Luffy and a Yonkou's top dogs.
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  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifista View Post
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    I'll put it this way; if Katakuri is 100 then Cracker is like an 85-87 with *possibly* harder armament, less impressive Observation and is a glass cannon which is the biggest detriment of course. So in effect, Katakuri looks a lot better in comparison since he can actually take a hit. If Cracker wasn't a glass cannon then the only thing that would seem to separate him from Katakuri would be Observation which really hasn't helped Katakuri all too much against Luffy, to be honest.

    And I mean, non G4 Luffy is doing just fine right now. He's more of a punching bag than anything but he's still there and a portion of that was with him being attacked by Flambe. Against Cracker he had a slew of help but you can see a clear progression in how Oda is presenting Luffy and a Yonkou's top dogs.
    Cracker never displayed square hardening, so im willing to bet that Katakuris COA is more advanced than his is, seeing how it was winning out over luffys in most of their head on clashes. As far as the other categories go:

    Physical Strength: Katakuri>=Cracker. Both were able to drive back G3 attacks and didn't budge an inch against hawk gatling, with katakurs showings being marginally more impressive imo

    COO:Katakuri>Cracker. No brainer. Katakuris COO has been emphasized multiple times and his applications of it have been far more masterful and advanced than anything cracker has shown

    Movement Speed: Cracker>Katakuri?. Cracker doesn't have any on panel speed feats to his name, but from chapter 838 we can infer that hes got the speed to handle g4 luffy, and while katakuri did evade a high end g2 attack in impressive fashion and stay within sight of a fleeing g4 luffy with flowing mochi, im not sure he has the raw movement speed to evade g4 attacks outright, although it must be said that his COO and abiity to reshape his body means that he doesn't even need to do so.

    Combat Speed/Reactions: Katakuri>Cracker. Not really much to say about this one. Katakuris speed feats are decisively better than all of crackers. He tagged luffy on the fly, matched hawk gatling blow for blow and most impressively was able to hit g4 multiple times whereas cracker wasn't able to. Additionally was able to react to g4s fastest known attack with relative ease

    Stamina:Katakuri>=Cracker. Difference shouldn't be that large. Both have been involved in high intensity fights for upwards of 11 hours and accumulated relatively little fatigue, once again though, katakuris accolades are simply better quantitatively.

    Power:Katakuri>Cracker. Pretzel roll is the most powerful attack weve seen from cracker, and that is eclipsed by Katakuri's Strength Mochi to a significant degree.

    So overall, when we consider the whole package, katakuri comes out ahead of cracker by a visible, though not significant margin
    Last edited by ReXDrake; 02-14-2018 at 10:07 AM.






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  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    Cracker never displayed square hardening, so im willing to bet that Katakuris COA is more advanced than his is, seeing how it was winning out over luffys in most of their head on clashes. As far as the other categories go:

    Physical Strength: Katakuri>=Cracker. Both were able to drive back G3 attacks and didn't budge an inch against hawk gatling, with katakurs showings being marginally more impressive imo

    COO:Katakuri>Cracker. No brainer. Katakuris COO has been emphasized multiple times and his applications of it have been far more masterful and advanced than anything cracker has shown

    Movement Speed: Cracker>Katakuri?. Cracker doesn't have any on panel speed feats to his name, but from chapter 838 we can infer that hes got the speed to handle g4 luffy, and while katakuri did evade a high end g2 attack in impressive fashion and stay within sight of a fleeing g4 luffy with flowing mochi, im not sure he has the raw movement speed to evade g4 attacks outright, although it must be said that his COO and abiity to reshape his body means that he doesn't even need to do so.

    Combat Speed/Reactions: Katakuri>Cracker. Not really much to say about this one. Katakuris speed feats are decisively better than all of crackers. He tagged luffy on the fly, matched hawk gatling blow for blow and most impressively was able to hit g4 multiple times whereas cracker wasn't able to. Additionally was able to react to g4s fastest known attack with relative ease

    Stamina:Katakuri>=Cracker. Difference shouldn't be that large. Both have been involved in high intensity fights for upwards of 11 hours and accumulated relatively little fatigue, once again though, katakuris accolades are simply better quantitatively.

    Power:Katakuri>Cracker. Pretzel roll is the most powerful attack weve seen from cracker, and that is eclipsed by Katakuri's Strength Mochi to a significant degree.

    So overall, when we consider the whole package, katakuri comes out ahead of cracker by a visible, though not significant margin
    The strongest attack from Cracker was able to cut through G4 Luffy with ease. In other words, both can injure G4 Luffy with no problem----something that Doflamingo could never do. Other than that and more nitpicks though, I really don't think we differ all that much. As I said, I'd rate Cracker an 85-87 to Katakuri's 100 which is a definite margin, but not huge correct?

    In other words, our lexicon may be different but I personally don't think we actually disagree on all too much in comparing the two.
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  20. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifista View Post
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    The strongest attack from Cracker was able to cut through G4 Luffy with ease. In other words, both can injure G4 Luffy with no problem----something that Doflamingo could never do. Other than that and more nitpicks though, I really don't think we differ all that much. As I said, I'd rate Cracker an 85-87 to Katakuri's 100 which is a definite margin, but not huge correct?

    In other words, our lexicon may be different but I personally don't think we actually disagree on all too much in comparing the two.
    I don't like using numbers to represent characters' relative prowess levels, because without any standard or context, they don't mean anything. What does a differential of 13-15 even signify?

    Your the best OP powerlevel debater I know of, so if we were to disagree on something, it would be far more likely that I had erred than you, so hearing that the great Pacifista for the mos part agrees with me is great news. Not trying to suck up or anything, im just acknowledging my inferiority on this matter.






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