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Thread: Qin vs Chu

  1. #1

    Qin vs Chu

    Location : Kankoku Pass
    Troops : same with Coalition War, all Chu side is Chu troops
    Chu side:
    Renpa and his HK replace Ordo
    SSK in KP
    Kanmei + Rinbukun + Chu new gen is same as story
    Karin replace Keisha

    Can Qin survive vs Chu?

    1. Qin position is the same as coalition arc

    2. If Qin lose, You can adjust the positioning of Qin general if you think it will make a better odds for Qin
    Last edited by gn_x00; 02-08-2018 at 05:53 AM.

  2. #2
    So basically it's...

    Moubu and Tou vs Kanmei and Rinbunkun
    Duke Hyou vs Karin
    Kanki, Mougou, and Choutou vs SSK
    Ousen vs Renpa and 4HK

    While some battlegrounds become easier to manage, Renpa with all 4HK seems far too overwhelming of a force here for Ousen to be able to stop there.

  3. #3
    Without GHM's siege towers there is absolutely no threat to Kankoku Pass, Kanki and Mougou would be better off positioned with Ousen to annihilate Renpa.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Great Potato View Post
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    So basically it's...

    Moubu and Tou vs Kanmei and Rinbunkun
    Duke Hyou vs Karin
    Kanki, Mougou, and Choutou vs SSK
    Ousen vs Renpa and 4HK

    While some battlegrounds become easier to manage, Renpa with all 4HK seems far too overwhelming of a force here for Ousen to be able to stop there.
    Yeah, that's why i add 2nd scenario lol

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenma View Post
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    Without GHM's siege towers there is absolutely no threat to Kankoku Pass, Kanki and Mougou would be better off positioned with Ousen to annihilate Renpa.
    Would Mougou + Ousen/Kanki enough to do that though?
    Seeing Sanyou, being in Mougou army seems to limit what Kanki and Ousen did

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    Yeah, that's why i add 2nd scenario lol



    Would Mougou + Ousen/Kanki enough to do that though?
    Seeing Sanyou, being in Mougou army seems to limit what Kanki and Ousen did
    True, but the fact that it is Kanki+Ousen alone should be enough to defeat any general or army in the series (just leave Mougou in KP if he holds them back lol). They were never really pushed to their limits in Sanyou.

    Renpa's good, but he's not 'replace 4 other states worth of generals' good.
    Last edited by Tenma; 02-08-2018 at 06:00 AM.

  6. #6
    hmm, mountain side is seemingly stacked in Chu's favor, though Renpa would actually have to find a way up and that's no easy feat. Qin can spit on SSK while on KP and the Kanmei/Moubu side is much simpler since Tou can take out Rinbukun with ease and not have to deal with Karin afterwards. Duke will have his hands full with Karin though. I'd say Qin's chances are very good.
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  7. #7
    Karin + 120k vs Duke + 40k is the difference maker. Aside from that, Qin could put Kanki with Ousen and give them some troops from Moubu/Tou's side.

  8. #8
    Yeah... Personally Karin and Renpa is good, but the plain and KP should be in Qin's favor.. Really surprised not much people picked The 120 vs 40 Karin vs Duke

  9. #9
    Qin still win for me. they still have strategical advantage. duke hyou is probably a good match up against karin & i can't see renpa breaking into ousen's mountain fort since he can't even break through ousen's small fort at sanyou. it's better to put someone with mountain units like YTW or gekishin

  10. #10
    While Moubu and Tou would have a much easier time without Karin, Ousen and Duke look like they would be completly overwhelmed. I dont see SSK being much of a threat to the Kankoku Pass without the war machines and poison weapons. So 2 generals would be able to assist either the Duke or Ousen.

    In S1 the Dukes side and Ousens side are lost imo. This would bring Qin the loss as Renpa and Karin would be able to pass the mountains to open the gates for the other armies.

    In S2 I think Qin can manage to defend itself if the generals are placed better.


  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by rucky View Post
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    Qin still win for me. they still have strategical advantage. duke hyou is probably a good match up against karin & i can't see renpa breaking into ousen's mountain fort since he can't even break through ousen's small fort at sanyou. it's better to put someone with mountain units like YTW or gekishin
    He didn't have a huge number advantage at Sanyou IIRC. Plus, at the very least Ousen won't be able to pin Renpa down like he did to Ordo which means Karin's elites can be a factor?

    Though actually, I'm not sure what good Karin's elites would do when there's no threat from GHM/Han on the wall itself.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    He didn't have a huge number advantage at Sanyou IIRC. Plus, at the very least Ousen won't be able to pin Renpa down like he did to Ordo which means Karin's elites can be a factor?

    Though actually, I'm not sure what good Karin's elites would do when there's no threat from GHM/Han on the wall itself.
    70,000 are more than enough to defend against 120,000. you usually need 3x the numbers to even stand a chance against a good defense. its way easier for ousen to execute his plan compared to renpa. all he need to is force a stalemate or just trap renpa's army in his fort as soon as certain part is broken. i mean this is basically his specialty even in history

    As for karin elite,duke hyou probably can see it coming,like he did with riboku's

    this made me wonder if anyone else other than duke hyou can spot riboku's sneaky move

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Karin + 120k vs Duke + 40k is the difference maker.
    Not really.

    Duke's warfare would be a problem for Karin. Remember how he fared with 10k against Gohoumei's 100k during several days. Besides remember what Chougaryu said "the better the strategist, the more difficult it becomes to counter an instinctual general". And Karin is a very good strategist :/

    On the reverse Tou would stomp Rinbunkun on first day and then it would be Kanmei vs Moubu+Tou army on second day instead of attrition warfare. Kanmei would crumble quickly.

    Ousen would probably have problems against Renpa but nothing impossible to manage. Steep cliffs are not exactly the best for Rinko and Kaishibou. Problems would probably come from Kyouen and especially Genbou. But again since I can't see them breaking through Ousen's fortress in 1 or 2 days I think Moubu and Tou would have time to wreak Chu and spread victory to other battlefields.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Whysoserious View Post
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    Not really.

    Duke's warfare would be a problem for Karin. Remember how he fared with 10k against Gohoumei's 100k during several days. Besides remember what Chougaryu said "the better the strategist, the more difficult it becomes to counter an instinctual general". And Karin is a very good strategist :/

    On the reverse Tou would stomp Rinbunkun on first day and then it would be Kanmei vs Moubu+Tou army on second day instead of attrition warfare. Kanmei would crumble quickly.

    Ousen would probably have problems against Renpa but nothing impossible to manage. Steep cliffs are not exactly the best for Rinko and Kaishibou. Problems would probably come from Kyouen and especially Genbou. But again since I can't see them breaking through Ousen's fortress in 1 or 2 days I think Moubu and Tou would have time to wreak Chu and spread victory to other battlefields.
    Karin doesn't really resort to the types of games GHM or even Ten would play though. She takes initiative and forces the tempo, from what we've seen. GHM acts and reacts....and it's the latter that strategists struggle with against Duke. Plus GHM wasn't serious against Duke.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Whysoserious View Post
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    Not really.

    Duke's warfare would be a problem for Karin. Remember how he fared with 10k against Gohoumei's 100k during several days. Besides remember what Chougaryu said "the better the strategist, the more difficult it becomes to counter an instinctual general". And Karin is a very good strategist :/

    That's kind of a nlf. Ouki implies one doesn't have an advantage over the other and I'd take his word over lolgaryuu's
    Last edited by Tenma; 02-08-2018 at 01:51 PM.

  16. #16
    Renpa would defeat OuSen with his 4HK and conquer KP from behind

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Whysoserious View Post
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    Duke's warfare would be a problem for Karin. Remember how he fared with 10k against Gohoumei's 100k during several days.
    Gohoumei was just playing around and wasn't using his army to the fullest.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by rucky View Post
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    70,000 are more than enough to defend against 120,000. you usually need 3x the numbers to even stand a chance against a good defense. its way easier for ousen to execute his plan compared to renpa. all he need to is force a stalemate or just trap renpa's army in his fort as soon as certain part is broken. i mean this is basically his specialty even in history

    As for karin elite,duke hyou probably can see it coming,like he did with riboku's

    this made me wonder if anyone else other than duke hyou can spot riboku's sneaky move
    Duke Hyou only saw it because Riboku went stupid trying to be nice asking the other states for elites he didn’t need.

  19. #19
    Yeah, Duke only noticed the 2nd batch of coalition army (the one which is from all states that doesn't even take part in the end) instead of the sneaky Zhao army

    While Gyou'un has advantages to strategic general due to his combined nature of strategic and instinct, Duke Hyou is a different case since Duke can't comprehend strategy either. If any, Ousen is at a disadvantage here because Renpa is both strategic and instinctual like Gyou'un.

    Duke elites vs Karin elites are probably about even. So they can't really roflstomp the enemies like what Duke did vs Zhao. Plus the elephant would probably be annoying for Duke and his army. It both has surprise factor and hard to deal, especially when Duke lacks good vassal

    Also, the picture of Ouki being cut by Rinko shows that Ouki set up his defense in a hill/mountain like formation. Who knows how Rinko did it, but he managed to break through that fortification hill and reach Ouki. Clearly he isn't out of his games. Plus the other 4HK can probably match up with all of Ousen's vassals

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalIce View Post
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    In S2 I think Qin can manage to defend itself if the generals are placed better.
    How would you distribute the Qin side to defend vs Chu?

  20. #20
    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    Yeah, Duke only noticed the 2nd batch of coalition army (the one which is from all states that doesn't even take part in the end) instead of the sneaky Zhao army
    Huh, never noticed this. Though if so- what a dumbass

    way to sabotage your entire masterstroke because you wanted to be a 'nice guy'
    Last edited by Tenma; 02-08-2018 at 04:06 PM.

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