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  1. #1
    Pretty Flacko Jr. Tokio's Avatar
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    Mou Ten vs Rin Ko

    5k vs 5k

    gaku ka is comprised of his own men and ma kou's
    rin ko gets his elites and zhao soldiers

    location: plains

    who wins?
    トキオ Love.$ex.Dreams

  2. #2
    Giving this to Rinko pretty handily at that. Rinko was capable of giving Ouki trouble in terms of his breakthrough techniques and even combat skill. Although, I think Mouten would hold out for a few days, I'm not sure he can take out Rinko.

  3. #3
    DoflaMihawk's Avatar
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    If Rinko could break through to attack Ouki then he can do the same to Mouten for sure, and when he does it's game over. His elites are likely no worse than the Gaku Ka unit either.

  4. #4
    Rinko takes it

  5. #5
    5k vs 5k and it'd be a close call. A 30k battle definitely favours the more experienced general.

  6. #6
    Pretty Flacko Jr. Tokio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriousWarlord View Post
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    Giving this to Rinko pretty handily at that. Rinko was capable of giving Ouki trouble in terms of his breakthrough techniques and even combat skill. Although, I think Mouten would hold out for a few days, I'm not sure he can take out Rinko.
    this isn't a defensive battle tho, breakthrough techniques wouldn't have any actual purpose here
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  7. #7
    If Rinko sits back and tries to outsmart Mouten he'll lose but if he realizes fast that he can beat Mouten by charging him full steam he will win.


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  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
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    this isn't a defensive battle tho, breakthrough techniques wouldn't have any actual purpose here
    Not true in the least. Sanyou wasn't a defensive campaign. Nearly all battles are based around the charge tactic with small maneuvers to pinpoint officers/headquarters or to encircle troops. This is especially true in open plains where hiding your intentions is much harder. In fact, that's precisely why Mouten chose the tactics he used to help Shin and Ouhon reach Rinko because he knew that there were no other options. The reason Mouten isn't likely to win is that with 5,000 people he lacks the man power and the terrain to use tactics to wear down Rinko, and he doesn't have anyone who can kill Rinko in a duel.

  9. #9
    Pretty Flacko Jr. Tokio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriousWarlord View Post
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    Not true in the least. Sanyou wasn't a defensive campaign.
    wym, they were defending mou gou's hq. that's why rin ko attempted 'rindou'. he wanted to reach the c-i-c behind the enemy formation that was defending him.

    Nearly all battles are based around the charge tactic with small maneuvers to pinpoint officers/headquarters or to encircle troops. This is especially true in open plains where hiding your intentions is much harder. In fact, that's precisely why Mouten chose the tactics he used to help Shin and Ouhon reach Rinko because he knew that there were no other options.
    they had no other options because of their small numbers relative to rin ko's army at the time, not because the tactics they could use were limited by the terrain. we've seen plenty of impressive maneuvers in the series used on a plain without any terrain advantage.

    The reason Mouten isn't likely to win is that with 5,000 people he lacks the man power and the terrain to use tactics to wear down Rinko, and he doesn't have anyone who can kill Rinko in a duel.
    he has the strongest men in ou sen's army on his side on top of his own elites. rin ko's elites only numbered 300, iirc.

    not to mention mou ten himself is stronger than the versions of ou hon and shin that were able to give rin ko trouble back then.

    not that it'd necessarily need to come down to brawn, but mou ten and his unit aren't really lacking as far as that's concerned.
    トキオ Love.$ex.Dreams

  10. #10
    wym, they were defending mou gou's hq. that's why rin ko attempted 'rindou'. he wanted to reach the c-i-c behind the enemy formation that was defending him.
    That's not entirely true though. Yes, Mougou's goal was to defend himself while letting Ousen and Kanki handle Renpa, but that's why he had a mountain fortress. The main center was still basically an offensive clash; it was Mouten who was worried that Rinko was going to kill his grandfather, not Mougou.

    they had no other options because of their small numbers relative to rin ko's army at the time, not because the tactics they could use were limited by the terrain. we've seen plenty of impressive maneuvers in the series used on a plain without any terrain advantage.
    This is true, but its typically always performed while the main bodies are charging. I would agree that Rindou wouldnt be a problem if I was under the impression that Rinko was inferior to Mouten in terms of tactical ability. And it's magnified with such small numbers. The smaller the army, the less options you have tactics wise.

    he has the strongest men in ou sen's army on his side on top of his own elites. rin ko's elites only numbered 300, iirc.

    not to mention mou ten himself is stronger than the versions of ou hon and shin that were able to give rin ko trouble back then.

    not that it'd necessarily need to come down to brawn, but mou ten and his unit aren't really lacking as far as that's concerned.
    You gave him Zhao soldiers. He was a legend in Zhao, whereas he was using a Wei army that he didn't trust before. And I heavily disagree that Mouten is stronger than Shin was when Shin gave him trouble. First, Ouhon didn't really give him trouble; it took both of them to even annoy him, and then it was only Shin able to hurt him when Shin essentially evolved in battle. And even then, it still took Sosui distracting him for Shin to be able to hurt him. We haven't seen any feats from Mouten to show he's on par with Ouhon, let alone Shin in combat. That's never been his schtick.

  11. #11
    Pretty Flacko Jr. Tokio's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GloriousWarlord View Post
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    That's not entirely true though. Yes, Mougou's goal was to defend himself while letting Ousen and Kanki handle Renpa, but that's why he had a mountain fortress. The main center was still basically an offensive clash; it was Mouten who was worried that Rinko was going to kill his grandfather, not Mougou.
    not true




    their only task, as directed by mou gou himself, was to defend him. the formation was never meant to be an offensive and the mountain fortress was never meant to be the only line of defense; not to mention it was only a fortress from the rear where ren pa attacked.

    This is true, but its typically always performed while the main bodies are charging. I would agree that Rindou wouldnt be a problem if I was under the impression that Rinko was inferior to Mouten in terms of tactical ability. And it's magnified with such small numbers. The smaller the army, the less options you have tactics wise.
    in this current campaign mou ten managed to discreetly pull off a feint without use of either terrain or a charge. and mou ten's acuity at sanyou was already to a point where he was able to see through rin ko's formation.

    You gave him Zhao soldiers. He was a legend in Zhao, whereas he was using a Wei army that he didn't trust before. And I heavily disagree that Mouten is stronger than Shin was when Shin gave him trouble. First, Ouhon didn't really give him trouble; it took both of them to even annoy him, and then it was only Shin able to hurt him when Shin essentially evolved in battle. And even then, it still took Sosui distracting him for Shin to be able to hurt him. We haven't seen any feats from Mouten to show he's on par with Ouhon, let alone Shin in combat. That's never been his schtick.
    rin ko noted how easy to use wei soldiers were, so it's not as if they were a huge handicap

    ou hon was able to wound rin ko; who then pointed out that if he weren't already familiar with that spear technique he's not sure if he would've been able to avoid it properly



    mou ten's str stat released over a year ago in story is above what theirs were back then, and during the coalition he was able to fight evenly with a character who was more or less sanyou shin's equal
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  12. #12
    Still Rinko, he would break through Mouten's lines and slay him

  13. #13
    IMO Mouten would be able to beat Rinko in forrest or mountain area where he can easily use hit and run tactics.

    In plains however it would be pretty hard for him to deal with Rinko's break through ability.

  14. #14
    Crispickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cichy View Post
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    IMO Mouten would be able to beat Rinko in forrest or mountain area where he can easily use hit and run tactics.

    In plains however it would be pretty hard for him to deal with Rinko's break through ability.
    i think i agree with this

    although even hit&run vs rinko isn't a walk in the park. I think mouten needs to outwit him in some way and sure he has the cards to do that.
    ~Lemon~


  15. #15
    I don't see how Mouten stops Rinko from doing his thing.

  16. #16
    Knight of Romance Heart's Avatar
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    Depends on the situation, but the more straight forward the battle the more likely rinko wins, and he probably wins more than losses on the whole.

  17. #17
    Crispickle's Avatar
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    the one thing that plays against rinko in any scenario is the fact he's never finding an use to his rindou against mouten. Rinko uses it to pierce through defenses of any kind when his purpose lies strictly beyond the enemy lines. But there's no vital HQ to march against here and most definitely mouten will keep himself as mobile as possible to avoid giving the enemy easy targets. So if rinko wants to win he can only do it with conventional means.
    ~Lemon~


  18. #18
    Pretty Flacko Jr. Tokio's Avatar
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    ^ ty
    トキオ Love.$ex.Dreams

  19. #19
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    What happens when Rinko simply goes for Mouten's men? If Mouten's gonna run around so Rinko can't get to him, he'll just walk all over his men. Mouten is great and all, but he's not quite at Rinko's level just yet I'd say.

  20. #20
    Crispickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tokio View Post
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    ^ ty
    sorry

    i just noticed you mentioned it before lol
    ~Lemon~


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