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Thread: Deism

  1. #1
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    Deism

    "Deism is a philosophical position that posits that God (or in some cases, gods) does not interfere directly with the world; conversely it can also be stated as a system of belief which posits God's existence as the cause of all things, and admits His perfection (and usually the existence of natural law and Providence) but rejects Divine revelation or direct intervention of God in the universe by miracles. It also rejects revelation as a source of religious knowledge and asserts that reason and observation of the natural world are sufficient to determine the existence of a single creator or absolute principle of the universe".

    What do you guys think about this? I'd really like some of the Muslims on this site to comment as well.


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  2. #2
    I'm agnostic about it. I mean I'm happy to debate against it with anyone at anytime, but generally I don't conflict with deists. Compared to theism, it's harder to disprove and prove.

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    I’m pretty much a deist.

  4. #4
    Deism isn't the most logical conclusion. It implies that we were created without purpose, which doesn't seem to befit the majesty of a divine being.
    No.​

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    Most conceptions of deistic gods, like the one believed in by Spinoza which posit that god is identical to the universe or that the universe is a manifestation of god are completely unfalsifiable and therefore useless.

    It is a cut above theism though






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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Deism isn't the most logical conclusion. It implies that we were created without purpose, which doesn't seem to befit the majesty of a divine being.
    How does it imply that we are created without purpose?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    Most conceptions of deistic gods, like the one believed in by Spinoza which posit that god is identical to the universe or that the universe is a manifestation of god are completely unfalsifiable and therefore useless.
    Explain, you monkey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    How does it imply that we are created without purpose?

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    Explain, you monkey.
    Well if we're just talking about the two forms of deism I mentioned, god is believed to be indistinguishable from the material world, which consequently means that you wouldn't be able to differentiate between a world with god in it and one without.

    Not all flavours of deism are necessarily like this - theres some interesting shit involving idealism and quantum physics which a surprising number of academics think points to the existence of a deistic god for example






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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Deism isn't the most logical conclusion. It implies that we were created without purpose, which doesn't seem to befit the majesty of a divine being.
    How are we supposed to understand something that is beyond our comprehension?


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  9. #9
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    I identify as Deist, too. I don’t see why the theistic debate is black and white as either an Abrahamic God exists or an Abrahamic God doesn’t. Why can’t religion be the middle ground that is eliminated?

    I flip flop between this and agnosticism.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    Well if we're just talking about the two forms of deism I mentioned, god is believed to be indistinguishable from the material world, which consequently means that you wouldn't be able to differentiate between a world with god in it and one without.
    That’s panentheism. Spinoza wasn’t really a conventional deist. How is his stance relevant to this thread?

    Not all flavours of deism are necessarily like this - theres some interesting shit involving idealism and quantum physics which a surprising number of academics think points to the existence of a deistic god for example
    So why are you condescending toward deism? And how is something that’s unfalsifiable useless?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    That’s panentheism. Spinoza wasn’t really a conventional deist. How is his stance relevant to this thread?



    So why are you condescending toward deism? How is something that’s unfalsifiable useless?
    Panentheism can essentially be deism though

    Its useless in an pragmatic sense. If something is unfalsifiable, then by definition there is a non zero possibility that it is true, but youd never be able to find out and it wouldn't have any explanatory power or be reasonable to believe in.

    That's why unfalsifiable notions are of zero value to science






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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    Panentheism can essentially be deism though

    Its useless in an pragmatic sense. If something is unfalsifiable, then by definition there is a non zero possibility that it is true, but youd never be able to find out and it wouldn't have any explanatory power or be reasonable to believe in.

    That's why unfalsifiable notions are of zero value to science
    Oh, so it’s not that deism is useless to consciousness or philosophy or the human experience, it’s just useless to your weird transhumanist scientific death cult. Good to know.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    Oh, so it’s not that deism is useless to consciousness or philosophy or the human experience, it’s just useless to your weird transhumanist scientific death cult. Good to know.

    What the fuck is wrong with you?

    Deism isn't a defensible position philosophically in my opinion, if you disagree, then please make a case for your deist god, otherwise do what you do best and back the fuck down like a little pussy






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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    What the fuck is wrong with you?
    Ask yourself that question. You just posited that life itself is meaningless unless we march like drones to the pastures of “scientism.”

    Deism isn't a defensible position philosophically in my opinion,
    So this is more about your opinion than fact?

    if you disagree, then please make a case for your deist god, otherwise do what you do best and back the fuck down like a little pussy
    You do realize that a universe created by a deist god makes way more sense than a universe created by “nothing,” right?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    Ask yourself that question. You just posited that life itself is meaningless unless we march like drones to the pastures of “scientism.”



    So this is more about your opinion than fact?



    You do realize that a universe created by a deist god makes way more sense than a universe created by “nothing,” right?
    When did I say that? I'm not even that interested in science as a whole, I'm much more keen on philosophy, so don't label me a scientist, because I am most certainly not one and can refute the position effortlessly myself

    That's the trillionth time someone has misrepresented this subject. Tell me, how is a universe created by a god differentiable from one that isnt






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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    When did I say that? I'm not even that interested in science as a whole, I'm much more keen on philosophy, so don't label me a scientist, because I am most certainly not one and can refute the position effortlessly myself
    Don’t try to backtrack now, ReX.



    You literally said that something not done in the name of science is useless. Your philosophy itself is scientism. It’s clear where your allegiance lies.

    That's the trillionth time someone has misrepresented this subject. Tell me, how is a universe created by a god differentiable from one that isnt
    That’s a broad question. Narrow it down a bit.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    Don’t try to backtrack now, ReX.



    You literally said that something not done in the name of science is useless. Your philosophy itself is scientism. It’s clear where your allegiance lies.



    That’s a broad question. Narrow it down a bit.
    All I said was that from a science perspective, unfalsifiable things are useless. Scientism is utter bullshit, so don't call me one again if you want to be taken seriously

    You claimed that a universe created by a deistic god "makes more sense" than one that didn't have such a god in thee equation. My question was clear enough, how do you tell the difference between them?






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  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    All I said was that from a science perspective, unfalsifiable things are useless. Scientism is utter bullshit, so don't call me one again if you want to be taken seriously
    You said what you said, ReX. Everything has to be done in the name of science.



    You claimed that a universe created by a deistic god "makes more sense" than one that didn't have such a god in thee equation. My question was clear enough, how do you tell the difference between them?
    Do you have examples of universes that were created with or without gods? If not, then this is just a sad attempt to pigeonhole someone.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    You said what you said, ReX. Everything has to be done in the name of science.





    Do you have examples of universes that were created with or without gods? If not, then this is just a sad attempt to pigeonhole someone.
    Youre a fucking evil piece of shit, and its clear you aren't interested in having a serious discussion about this.






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  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    Youre a fucking evil piece of shit, and its clear you aren't interested in having a serious discussion about this.
    Why? Because you asked a disingenuous question? This stuff really isn’t as convoluted as you’re making it out to be. You have yet to explain why my statement about a deistic universe making more sense is flawed in any way.

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