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Thread: #Metoo Movement

  1. #21
    Chess Master Game Master's Avatar
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    Have no clue what the hell this is.... Anyone care to explain?
    Stay a while, and listen!

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  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Game Master View Post
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    Have no clue what the hell this is.... Anyone care to explain?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Me_Too_movement

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by R View Post
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    I know how to google too lol, was hoping someone would put actual scenarios in the explanation...

    Also, why is your name R? Is it what I think it is from IT, or something else?

    And I consider pretty much almost all modern movements to be retarded anyways, so was simply wandering what the world came up with this time to excite the general public.
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  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispickle View Post
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    it has to do with that world, it has. If you touched my butt in a supermarket it'd be proper harassment but media wouldn't care. But if you touch my butt in a private meeting about you having me produced in the world of show business, then sorry if it sounds harsh, but those are the rules of the game. No matter how good you are at acting or presenting or anything, there are thousands of people i can choose to produce in your stead. So if you don't give me anything special to guarantee i even place attention in your case, then there's the door. Terrible? Sure. But let's not play dumb. Here's the state of things. So no, a touch on the butt isn't much. It's nothing, in that context. The old men and the girls alike know this well. And this system is just so natural that no mediatic movement will ever temper it down to earth. It'll be the automatic result as long as there's so much offer of aspirant actors/presenters, so little space for anyone to actually break through, and so few people this decision is in the hands of.

    it's not like there's someone who we can blame for making this such a big case. It's just the media and a system founded on hypocritical values that generated it and that's why nobody in good faith is gaining anything from this. Literally a vicious circle bound to produce injustice and iniquity. And more trump voters if it matters.
    i think you are mixing up the idea of the metoo movement with its obstacles. an obstacle is, that surely is true, the "rules" of showbusiness.

    but as you admitted, these "rules" include sexual harrassement. so the idea of a campaign which raises the awareness about the existance of said "rules" is to be welcomed. whether this will change something in that specific sector remains questionable, however that is not the main objective of the movement. do you agree so far?

    the actual idea is for societies to rethink their approach on sexual harrassement as a whole. and with the coverage of the media, who publish a broad variety of opinions on subjective perceived sexual harrassments, this rethinking is actually taking place, as people who previously maybe have not even thought about how they act and speak slowly begin to think whether or not what they say or do could actually be perceived differently by their opposite. we already see this working on cabinets or even the parliament of the european union.

    now one could argue that regardless one does or say, in the end there is always the danger of it being perceived as inappropriate - and this is, in general, a correct assumption, seeing how different subjective perceptions are. but the possibility of that happening are slim, when people just simply keep their hands to themselves or hold back that saucy comment. thats not hypocritc

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by R View Post
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    i think you are mixing up the idea of the metoo movement with its obstacles. an obstacle is, that surely is true, the "rules" of showbusiness.

    but as you admitted, these "rules" include sexual harrassement. so the idea of a campaign which raises the awareness about the existance of said "rules" is to be welcomed. whether this will change something in that specific sector remains questionable, however that is not the main objective of the movement. do you agree so far?

    the actual idea is for societies to rethink their approach on sexual harrassement as a whole. and with the coverage of the media, who publish a broad variety of opinions on subjective perceived sexual harrassments, this rethinking is actually taking place, as people who previously maybe have not even thought about how they act and speak slowly begin to think whether or not what they say or do could actually be perceived differently by their opposite. we already see this working on cabinets or even the parliament of the european union.

    now one could argue that regardless one does or say, in the end there is always the danger of it being perceived as inappropriate - and this is, in general, a correct assumption, seeing how different subjective perceptions are. but the possibility of that happening are slim, when people just simply keep their hands to themselves or hold back that saucy comment. thats not hypocritc
    look, raven

    imagine the two of us meeting up in an hotel room. We decide to have gay sex, and since you're a maso, you insist on having me whipping you on the back with a dented chain. By next morning, your back is filled of bruises, but you're satisfied and you leave the hotel with a smile, happy of having gotten what you wanted.

    assume i do this every day with someone else.

    after 30 years, you see someone sued me for lesions and rape and i had no way to push back the accusations. So you tell yourself "might as well", and you sue me too, bringing the testimony that i whipped you with a dented chain against your will. Of course, i couldn't push back the precedent accusations so all the less chance to come out innocent here. I'm forced to either pay you a sick refund or to go to jail for good. Are you an opportunistic hypocrite or not, at the end of the day?

    now, the #metoo movement is made of this people. They're not "victims". They're sharks, just as much sharks the people who harassed them in exchange of a position were. The difference is, the previous sharks offer you a deal, which you have many opportunities to refuse. In this case, instead, it's just kicking a dead body trying to squeeze into the "victims" carriage. How is this anything less than hideous, and how is this bringing any change in the long run?
    ~Lemon~


  6. #26
    I'd agree with Crispi here.

    I don't condone sexual harassment, but things aren't always what they seem. It's scary that a long successful career can be shattered and brought to ruin over allegations alone, next thing you know you suddenly have the piranha swarming ready for a bite of the attention. It's worrying because its often both parties could be at fault here; a woman can act flirtatious, lead someone on, and consent to sexual activity and then go flip the script that she was harassed, assaulted, or exploited and then the man is ruined because its his word against hers.

  7. #27
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    That is a lot different than what Raven and the movement in general is suggesting. You're suggesting an equal trade of power and authority with no consequences on the line other than "personal pride," and no strings attached.

    Like we joke about the PoP's Casting Couch, but if we spent our lives training for, moving across the country for, and spent a tremendous amount of cash for becoming moderators and the only avenue was basically having to suck off PoPs or GP or go homeless/broke/etc. before we would even get an actual consideration? We would view it as a gross use of their authority and power to leverage over us prospective mods and basically sexual assault since we were pushed into a corner in a pivotal moment of our lives. At no point would that be acceptable even if we knew upper staff was traditionally filled with scum because the jobs we're asking for and training for don't require the skill of performing sex on our potential employer or being 'felt up" as you put. Many people at that point feel like they need to do it regardless of what it means, and that's not really the nature of a "cutthroat" business but extortion of those at your mercy. When walking in for an acting job there's rarely the explicit casting call for "And you'll have to not mind if I whip my dick out and beat it in front of you, touch you however I like regardless of what the role demands, or might ask for sexual favors." The idea that, "They can always say no and move on," isn't really applicable to most people in their position. For successful stars? Great. They have the means, clout, and connection to get by. For others? Not so much. They're literal nobodies who can so quickly be blacklisted that an entire career they've been training for vaporizes the moment they speak up or move against whomever is asking for these "favors." Two people meeting up for consensual sex with zero leverage is a VERY different concept.

    If the job were professional fluffer, or some sort of hardcore sex star? Maybe? Since the skills you're being hired for would be sex related they could somewhat justify it. Though they'd bring in a professional for the prospective actor/actress to perform with since the hiring manager would need to observe.


    I mean, it's great all of us can really just sit back and say these people had a choice that we don't have the same stakes or hardship to understand but it's definitely being incorrectly represented as just some people who got touched once and want to cash in. These are entire careers of people being taken advantage of by more powerful people who can decide the course of their lives and do not have another job they can just "spring to."



  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispickle View Post
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    look, raven

    imagine the two of us meeting up in an hotel room. We decide to have gay sex, and since you're a maso, you insist on having me whipping you on the back with a dented chain. By next morning, your back is filled of bruises, but you're satisfied and you leave the hotel with a smile, happy of having gotten what you wanted.

    assume i do this every day with someone else.

    after 30 years, you see someone sued me for lesions and rape and i had no way to push back the accusations. So you tell yourself "might as well", and you sue me too, bringing the testimony that i whipped you with a dented chain against your will. Of course, i couldn't push back the precedent accusations so all the less chance to come out innocent here. I'm forced to either pay you a sick refund or to go to jail for good. Are you an opportunistic hypocrite or not, at the end of the day?

    now, the #metoo movement is made of this people. They're not "victims". They're sharks, just as much sharks the people who harassed them in exchange of a position were. The difference is, the previous sharks offer you a deal, which you have many opportunities to refuse. In this case, instead, it's just kicking a dead body trying to squeeze into the "victims" carriage. How is this anything less than hideous, and how is this bringing any change in the long run?
    you are creating a scenario which basically describes a false accusation. i do agree that every accusation needs to be legally processed. in fact, i never denied that.

    however you are treating every single experience shared with the metoo movement as if it were the only ever possible way sexual harrassment takes place. is this what you truly believe?

    from over 80 different countries and millions of stories shared only a vanishingly low percentage are stories who actually go as far as to make accusations (this even includes the french ones, whose hashtag basically had name-exposure written in it), and even less lead to actual legal trials (which are then covered by the media). and while it can be argued how well these medial coverage and legal trials are handled, it does not change what all the other experiences aim at - which is the raise of awareness on the topic. and that is a good thing.

  9. #29
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    I don't believe half of the people who say this.


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  10. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by R View Post
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    you are creating a scenario which basically describes a false accusation. i do agree that every accusation needs to be legally processed. in fact, i never denied that.

    however you are treating every single experience shared with the metoo movement as if it were the only ever possible way sexual harrassment takes place. is this what you truly believe?

    from over 80 different countries and millions of stories shared only a vanishingly low percentage are stories who actually go as far as to make accusations (this even includes the french ones, whose hashtag basically had name-exposure written in it), and even less lead to actual legal trials (which are then covered by the media). and while it can be argued how well these medial coverage and legal trials are handled, it does not change what all the other experiences aim at - which is the raise of awareness on the topic. and that is a good thing.
    the problem is, you can't deal with any single accusation legally. I mean, you can, and that's what's going on rn, but the fact is this solution is flawed from the start. Because there's simply no possibility for the accused to defend himself. If the only person who knows the truth is the one accusing you, how can you get out? You simply... can't. This is why false accusations are treated on the same level of the genuine ones, the genuine victims being the first ones to lose from this since they get thrown in the same clusterfuck of the opportunistic foxes and there's no way to distinguish the ones from the other.
    ~Lemon~


  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispickle View Post
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    the problem is, you can't deal with any single accusation legally. I mean, you can, and that's what's going on rn, but the fact is this solution is flawed from the start. Because there's simply no possibility for the accused to defend himself. If the only person who knows the truth is the one accusing you, how can you get out? You simply... can't. This is why false accusations are treated on the same level of the genuine ones, the genuine victims being the first ones to lose from this since they get thrown in the same clusterfuck of the opportunistic foxes and there's no way to distinguish the ones from the other.
    but thats the problem behind your logic. you act as if the movements goal, and all of its shared experiences, are an actual accusation with an arguable culprit who is named.

    but that is not the case.

    yes, there also are named accusations but the overwhelming majority is, in fact, not name-shaming people or anything of the sort. they simply use the hashtag as a platform to share their stories, without accusing anyone. they also do not demand to be mentioned in the same breath as actual victims of sexual assault - which is another often repeated misconception.

    they simply push a mutual narrativ, which is valid (unless you state that the idea of women perceiving sexual harrasment in their life is a hoax).

  12. #32
    What really gets me about some of these women that agreed to do certain things for money, fame etc is that they completely disregard the fact that they did something wrong. Instead, they act as if it was rape or assault.

    I’d actually respect women that came clean in order to put into light the corruption in the industry if they didn’t skew what actually happened.
    No.​

  13. #33
    Chess Master Game Master's Avatar
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    Let me save you all some time... Stop arguing over something that doesn't matter. Stuff like this has always happened and will happen in the future. It will come and pass and people will forget about it as they have forgotten many things.

    Basically, go do something better than talk about the newest shit some people made up to excite the public for their own benefit.
    Stay a while, and listen!

    I am the great mighty poo, and Im going to throw my shit at you.

    Get over here!

    The Game Master, here to create amazing games for everyone!



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  14. #34
    Cafe Conqueror X's Avatar
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    What an interesting way this thread went.


    The Commander From Hell

  15. #35
    I am him! Mr. Carter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Game Master View Post
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    Let me save you all some time... Stop arguing over something that doesn't matter. Stuff like this has always happened and will happen in the future. It will come and pass and people will forget about it as they have forgotten many things.

    Basically, go do something better than talk about the newest shit some people made up to excite the public for their own benefit.
    How does this not matter?
    Quote Originally Posted by Y View Post
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    why is this even a thread
    Quote Originally Posted by Ava View Post
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    One question.

    If you think posting on an anime forum at the age of 28 is pathetic then why are you making an Ask Me Anything thread at the age of 28 on an anime forum?

  16. #36
    go to the cops

  17. #37
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    If something happened over multiple decades ago you cant just use it now for personal gain


  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Millennium Creed View Post
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    How does this not matter?
    Stuff like this are forgotten sooner or later. They don't matter because 1. They only apply to certain parts of the world (USA) 2. It's influence will be forgotten as many before it (already people are forgetting about the feminist movement, media no longer covers it like before etc...)

    When this movement stops making money to the people who benefit from it, it will be buried to the ground and everyone will forget about it as if it didn't exist.

    Rather than talk about something you have no influence over, no benefit from talking about it and no knowledge to be gained from... Maybe do something that actually improves your life or the life of the society you live in. That's why it doesn't matter, there are way more important things out there
    Stay a while, and listen!

    I am the great mighty poo, and Im going to throw my shit at you.

    Get over here!

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  19. #39
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    Movements that never go through proper channels to address serious issues in most cases will end up doing more harm than good in the long run, that's exactly what #metoo is. Good intentions initially(I would think), bad execution in the process(every woman that thinks/feels they have been harassed is harassed).

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Makenzye View Post
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    That is a lot different than what Raven and the movement in general is suggesting. You're suggesting an equal trade of power and authority with no consequences on the line other than "personal pride," and no strings attached.

    Like we joke about the PoP's Casting Couch, but if we spent our lives training for, moving across the country for, and spent a tremendous amount of cash for becoming moderators and the only avenue was basically having to suck off PoPs or GP or go homeless/broke/etc. before we would even get an actual consideration? We would view it as a gross use of their authority and power to leverage over us prospective mods and basically sexual assault since we were pushed into a corner in a pivotal moment of our lives. At no point would that be acceptable even if we knew upper staff was traditionally filled with scum because the jobs we're asking for and training for don't require the skill of performing sex on our potential employer or being 'felt up" as you put. Many people at that point feel like they need to do it regardless of what it means, and that's not really the nature of a "cutthroat" business but extortion of those at your mercy. When walking in for an acting job there's rarely the explicit casting call for "And you'll have to not mind if I whip my dick out and beat it in front of you, touch you however I like regardless of what the role demands, or might ask for sexual favors." The idea that, "They can always say no and move on," isn't really applicable to most people in their position. For successful stars? Great. They have the means, clout, and connection to get by. For others? Not so much. They're literal nobodies who can so quickly be blacklisted that an entire career they've been training for vaporizes the moment they speak up or move against whomever is asking for these "favors." Two people meeting up for consensual sex with zero leverage is a VERY different concept.

    If the job were professional fluffer, or some sort of hardcore sex star? Maybe? Since the skills you're being hired for would be sex related they could somewhat justify it. Though they'd bring in a professional for the prospective actor/actress to perform with since the hiring manager would need to observe.


    I mean, it's great all of us can really just sit back and say these people had a choice that we don't have the same stakes or hardship to understand but it's definitely being incorrectly represented as just some people who got touched once and want to cash in. These are entire careers of people being taken advantage of by more powerful people who can decide the course of their lives and do not have another job they can just "spring to."
    Couldn't of said it better myself so I'll just quote you.

    That said, there's something else that is really disturbing to me. The almost complete and total lack of empathy of girls and women that share the hashtag because they've been abused, sexually or otherwise in some way or fashion and having to keep it to themselves because it was just something that happened. And I'm not talking about celebrities. I'm talking about friends, family, coworkers, classmates, people you see every day, etc.

    There is a real disconnect here and this, to me, really exemplifies why this is thing in the first place. You have thousands upon millions of people sharing their stories and most of the posts in here don't even acknowledge their existence.
    http://www.millenniumforums.com/signaturepics/sigpic461_1.gif

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