View Poll Results: Is abortion ok

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  • I'm a dude so I dont give a fuck.

    1 8.33%
  • No, its wrong to kill babies.

    5 41.67%
  • Yes, its the womans choice.

    6 50.00%
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Thread: Abortion

  1. #41
    Halaros 536's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gay View Post
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    They obviously shouldn't be aborted last second. If people are going to abort it needs to be within the first 5 months, but that doesn't change the fact that its not a part of this world until its in this world.
    So, now you changed your statement. You originally said that it becomes a person when it comes out of the vagina. Now you're saying that it becomes a person after the 5th month? Also, everything is in this world. Whether a baby is in a womb or outside of it has no bearing on it's personhood status, unless you can somehow show how that magic takes place.

  2. #42
    Not Gay Gay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    I don't understand the 'it's her body argument.'

    1. It's not her body. The fetus being connected to her body, yes, but that doesn't make it her body.

    2. Even if it was her body, so what? Why should we let people do what they want? Why is the predominant assumption that we should value freedom of autonomy?
    1. Its leeching off her for 9 months, she obviously deserves a say if its to be removed

    2. So you're fine with people controlling how your body is when they have absolutely nothing to do with you?


  3. #43
    Far as I'm concerned, late term abortions are no different from the infanticide that the less civilized people in the world practice. Because a fetus can be ripped from the womb well before the 9 months or over and still survive. for example, babies can potentiallysurvive out of womb at around 5.5 months or so after conception if memory serves.

    Not that the baby being able to survive outside of the womb is necessary a good measure of whether or not it qualifies as a person, sinc a person is still considered a person if they are hooked up to life support.
    No.​

  4. #44
    Halaros 536's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gay View Post
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    It is an argument. If you were fucked by your uncle and impregnated at age 12 would you think abortion is evil?

    A baby isnt a baby until its fully formed. Once its fully formed it comes out the vagina.
    A fetus that isnt fully formed =/= a baby
    It's not. What I would think if I was in a bad situation has no bearing on the truth. You need to take some logic classes.

    I hope you know that babies can come out of the vag at different times, right? When is a baby "fully" formed? What's the cutting point?

  5. #45
    Majesty Kaido's Avatar
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    I should probably not say much more on this matter before i start acting too ignorant since i don't know much about this.

    So i just say:

    If the child is in any way on it's way to enter life it's wrong.

    But if the child is still dead/not about to enter life it feels okay.

    But a woman getting pregnant might suggest that that child is about to enter life so maybe that breaks that argument.

  6. #46
    PIERCE THE HEAVENS Bold's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gay View Post
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    1. Its leeching off her for 9 month
    this is the main problem with abortion. It teaches people that a child isn't the future, it's a burden that can be thrown away for convenience

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Gay View Post
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    1. Its leeching off her for 9 months, she obviously deserves a say if its to be removed

    2. So you're fine with people controlling how your body is when they have absolutely nothing to do with you?

    1. She should of course have a say, but that's different than giving her complete autonomy.

    2. Yes. I don't believe in freedom unless it's within certain moral parameters.
    No.​

  8. #48
    Not Gay Gay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halaros 536 View Post
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    So, now you changed your statement. You originally said that it becomes a person when it comes out of the vagina. Now you're saying that it becomes a person after the 5th month? Also, everything is in this world. Whether a baby is in a womb or outside of it has no bearing on it's personhood status, unless you can somehow show how that magic takes place.
    I think you were simply misunderstanding me. Nobody is stupid enough to wait 8 months to abort a child, obviously.
    Although it doesnt become a person until its fully formed and its not a part of this world until its physically in it.

    as for the bolded words, you are completely missing the point.


  9. #49
    Halaros 536's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    1. She should of course have a say, but that's different than giving her complete autonomy.

    2. Yes. I don't believe in freedom unless it's within certain moral parameters.
    This has nothing to do with freedom. You don't have the freedom to decide whether someone else lives or dies just cause he happens to be dependent on you. Gay needs to show that an unborn baby is not someone else for some reason.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    1. She should of course have a say, but that's different than giving her complete autonomy.

    2. Yes. I don't believe in freedom unless it's within certain moral parameters.
    Ok pops, lets say you're 12 and you just got raped by your uncle.
    Do you abort the inbreed fetus

    or do you let it shred your vagina when you turn 13


  11. #51
    Halaros 536's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gay View Post
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    I think you were simply misunderstanding me. Nobody is stupid enough to wait 8 months to abort a child, obviously.
    Although it doesnt become a person until its fully formed and its not a part of this world until its physically in it.

    as for the bolded words, you are completely missing the point.
    You've been asked to provide arguments for that for two pages now and you are completely unable to do that. And you're still trying to equate different statements in a hopeless attempt to mud the waters. A baby being fully formed and a baby having exited the womb is not the same thing and you haven't defined the first one.

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Halaros 536 View Post
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    This has nothing to do with freedom. You don't have the freedom to decide whether someone else lives or dies just cause he happens to be dependent on you. Gay needs to show that an unborn baby is not someone else for some reason.
    It does have to do with freedom, because the underlying moral principle being relied upon and assumed here is that a person can do anything to themselves so long as it was their choice. So even IF you want to say the 'it's her body' is a valid argument (which it is't, since like you said it's NOT her body) the argument doesn't hold because the idea that anyone should be able to do whatever they want with themselves is a baseless one.

    Of course, I don't disagree with your overall point. I think you are correct, but a the same time i think the whole freedom angle does need to be addressed.
    No.​

  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bold View Post
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    this is the main problem with abortion. It teaches people that a child isn't the future, it's a burden that can be thrown away for convenience
    A future of hated children due to forced sex is not a good future, damn right its a burden, but saying its being thrown away for convenience is morally disgusting.

    Its not like they dont feel anything.


  14. #54
    Halaros 536's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    It does have to do with freedom, because the underlying moral principle being relied upon and assumed here is that a person can do anything to themselves so long as it was their choice. So even IF you want to say the 'it's her body' is a valid argument (which it is't, since like you said it's NOT her body) the argument doesn't hold because the idea that anyone should be able to do whatever they want with themselves is a baseless one.

    Of course, I don't disagree with your overall point. I think you are correct, but a the same time i think the whole freedom angle does need to be addressed.
    Which is not the issue here, because, even if that's granted, the point is that the baby is a different person and has rights of it's own.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Gay View Post
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    Ok pops, lets say you're 12 and you just got raped by your uncle.
    Do you abort the inbreed fetus

    or do you let it shred your vagina when you turn 13

    As I specified earlier, the mother's life being in danger is a potentially acceptable reason for early term abortion. in this case I wouldn't look down on the decision of an early abortion because there's a moral basis for the action.

    But if a woman or a couple wants to abort a child just cause? I don't really care what they think, wrong is wrong. I don't care that it's their body or their child or their life. Society is interconnected and certain ideals need to be forced and enforced by the state.
    No.​

  16. #56
    Not Gay Gay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Halaros 536 View Post
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    You've been asked to provide arguments for that for two pages now and you are completely unable to do that. And you're still trying to equate different statements in a hopeless attempt to mud the waters. A baby being fully formed and a baby having exited the womb is not the same thing and you haven't defined the first one.
    I have though.
    Are you telling me that

    is the same thing as a baby?

    Because its not.

    A chicken egg isnt a chicken until it hatches.

    When a baby is fully formed its only human by technicality, although that argument is wasted on me, because nobody aborts fully grown fetuses.


  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Halaros 536 View Post
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    Which is not the issue here, because even if that's granted, the point is that the baby is a different person and has rights of it's own.

    Yeah, the child's life is indeed a different person from the mother.

    By the logic some people present, a 4 year old can be killed by the mother since the 4 year old is literally 'leeching' off of the parent's resources and cannot provide for themselves. Just cause there is no physical connection like before doesn't change that basic fact.
    No.​

  18. #58
    Halaros 536's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gay View Post
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    I have though.
    Are you telling me that

    is the same thing as a baby?

    Because its not.

    A chicken egg isnt a chicken until it hatches.

    When a baby is fully formed its only human by technicality, although that argument is wasted on me, because nobody aborts fully grown fetuses.

    What is your argument? A picture of a baby in a womb? Repeating your claim again and again is not an argument either. So, again you need to answer to two things:

    1)How does the passing through the vagina convey personhood?

    2)Second (if you quit the first claim) when is a baby fully formed inside the womb?

  19. #59
    Not Gay Gay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    As I specified earlier, the mother's life being in danger is a potentially acceptable reason for early term abortion. in this case I wouldn't look down on the decision of an early abortion because there's a moral basis for the action.

    But if a woman or a couple wants to abort a child just cause? I don't really care what they think, wrong is wrong. I don't care that it's their body or their child or their life. Society is interconnected and certain ideals need to be forced and enforced by the state.
    Ive never heard of a family aborting a potential son for the lols, nor do I think that situation exists in at least 90% of abortion cases.

    They obviously have their reasons.

    If you aren't ready to raise a child you shouldn't raise a child.

    and not aborting children in rape/incest cases is just stupid.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Halaros 536 View Post
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    What is your argument? A picture of a baby in a womb? Repeating your claim again and again is not an argument either.
    A chicken egg isnt a chicken until it hatches.

    A steak isnt cooked until you cook it

    Water isnt ice until it freezes

    A baby isnt a baby until its a baby (meaning its fully formed and exists in the physical realm where we dwell)

    Are you some kind of retard?


  20. #60
    One thing I will say is that men who talk about abortion like they will ever have to deal with it as a choice are being kind of ridiculous. I'm no feminist but you will NEVER have to make that decision for yourself.
    Quote Originally Posted by Heart View Post
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    I want to bathe in period blood because I have good taste

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