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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichiryuu View Post
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    I can't recognise the image of women being objectified to the point that people would get messed up minds, oversexualised maybe. Perhaps in other cultures it's different, but can't say I see it that bad here. Also the way you are raised obviously plays a role in this, if you have bad parenting or childhood friends all the time.
    Why not?

    I don't know where it is where you live specifically, but Western countries seem to suffer from this more than Eastern countries.
    No.​

  2. #22
    Halaros 536's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    I can respond to the rest of your post later, but as for this particular point I have come across it before in my research. Women who wear very little clothes experience more anxiety when doing a task even if they are in complete privacy. women doing the same exact thing while fully clothed, also in complete privacy, do not experience that anxiety.

    And yeah, studies can be wrong. But they should be investigated on an individual basis.

    I judged that research finding on an individual basis and I compared it to my hypothetical fart research. That's my comment on it. What's the multivariate analysis on that that could give it a shred of credibility and would differentiate it from my fart research and what's the replicability of it?

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Halaros 536 View Post
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    I judged that research finding on an individual basis and I compared it to my hypothetical fart research that's my comment on it. What's the multivariate analysis on that that could give it a shred of credibility and what's the replicability of it?

    This research isn't abstract or hypothetical or anything though. It's concrete and consistent with other research done on females and anxiety. For example, the research done on the effect on females brains in schools that have uniforms vs schools where the girl can choose what to wear. I think I might have posted about that in my library thread when I read the book 'Girls Over the Edge.'

    I'll post more when I get the time, but most of this stuff is backed by some hard evidence that very hard or impossible to refute.
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  4. #24
    Halaros 536's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    This research isn't abstract or hypothetical or anything though. It's concrete and consistent with other research done on females and anxiety. For example, the research done on the effect on females brains in schools that have uniforms vs schools where the girl can choose what to wear. I think I might have posted about that in my library thread when I read the book 'Girls Over the Edge.'

    I'll post more when I get the time, but most of this stuff is backed by some hard evidence that very hard or impossible to refute.
    That research is not abstract. It's concrete and bad. That's not how you establish causal powers of specific factors.

    edit: I'm talking about the quoted one. I maed other criticism for the rest as well.
    Last edited by Halaros 536; 01-27-2018 at 01:19 AM.

  5. #25
    Quote Originally Posted by Halaros 536 View Post
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    That research is not abstract. It's concrete and bad. That's not how you establish causal powers of specific factors.

    edit: I'm talking about the quoted one. I maed other criticism for the rest as well.

    How is it bad? It's consistent and can be cross-referenced with other research. What would the research need for you to consider it good?
    No.​

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Why not?

    I don't know where it is where you live specifically, but Western countries seem to suffer from this more than Eastern countries.
    Because I don't recognise it, I don't see anything around me revolving about women happening frequently that could cause violent behaviour.

    Not to mention I was talking about different cultures in general, not necessarily an eastern/western country type thing.

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  7. #27
    Halaros 536's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    How is it bad? It's consistent and can be cross-referenced with other research. What would the research need for you to consider it good?
    To have a multivariate analysis that can validate the conclusion. Separating people in different groups, focusing on a factor that you have chosen to focus on beforehand and then attributing whatever differences exist among groups to that is not science.
    Last edited by Halaros 536; 01-27-2018 at 01:26 AM.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichiryuu View Post
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    Because I don't recognise it, I don't see anything around me revolving about women happening frequently that could cause violent behaviour.

    Not to mention I was talking about different cultures in general, not necessarily an eastern/western country type thing.

    If you don't recognize, it, that would be because it's subtle and you'd be used to it.

    This isn't really an issue of culture, rather it's an issue of human nature. If one culture has less sexual violence than another it would be because the triggers that lead to sexual violent are less prevalent in that culture.


    Quote Originally Posted by Halaros 536 View Post
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    To have a multivariate analysis that can validate the conclusion. Separating people in different groups, focusing on a factor that you have chosen before hand and then attributing whatever differences exist among groups to the factor that you chose to isolate is not science.

    Like I said, all this research can be cross-referenced with other research which in of itself validates the conclusion. Furthermore, some of the research consists of actual readings of the brain.

    But I shall post more later on.
    No.​

  9. #29
    Halaros 536's Avatar
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    Well, I'm gonna wait for you to post that undeniable research, I will examine it and tell you what I think. But my comments on the specific stand.

  10. #30
    Objectively speaking it does, some crimes of sexual abuse come from lust and people are going to leave themselves more vulnerable to predators if they dress promiscuously. The whole 'a naked woman walking down the street should be treated in the same way as a naked male walking down the street' is a nice idea but lets face it isn't at all a practical reality and I doubt it ever would be.

    Having said that, I agree that women should be able to wear whatever they want and they shouldnt be forced to wear something out of fear of a sexual assault. Just because there is an increased likelihood of something bad happening, doesnt mean you should choose to your life any differently then the way you want too. To use an extreme example, any society not living in a caliphate has an increased likelihood that they will be attacked by ISIS but does that mean that all societies should become caliphates? No, dont be ridiculous. You cant let fear determine what you will do.

    On another note though, a lot of sexual assaults actually have nothing to do with feelings of lust being stirred up in the offenders and dressing promiscuously isnt an underlying and common factor in why every sexual offender offends. Each sexual offender is highly individualised, and factors like whether the offender himself had a past history of sexual abuse inflicted onto him, how much pornagraphy the offender has access too, whether they have any self esteem issues or whether they have any control issues can all be contributing factors. Not every substance abuser wants to sexually offend someone, and not every sexually offender wants to sexually offend someone because of the way they are dressed. Their are a lot of different variables involved, and fashion choice is only one of them

  11. #31
    I'd say porn and media bombardment is a bigger issue than immodest dressing. Though I think they are all issues that need to be dealt with.
    No.​

  12. #32
    Porn is definitely a massive factor, especially in third world countries where the access isnt there and sexual abuse is far more common. Conversely though, more and more extreme things happening in porn can sort of normalise rape on some level for the rapist as well. It was only a few year ago that rape porn actually got banned in the UK. The psychology of the predator isnt just necessarily motivated by feelings of lust either, they can have an entire mental history of problems that brought them that to that point

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
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    Porn is definitely a massive factor, especially in third world countries where the access isnt there and sexual abuse is far more common. Conversely though, more and more extreme things happening in porn can sort of normalise rape on some level for the rapist as well. It was only a few year ago that rape porn actually got banned in the UK. The psychology of the predator isnt just necessarily motivated by feelings of lust either, they can have an entire mental history of problems that brought them that to that point
    I would disagree with that.

    But I agree with the rest of your points.
    No.​

  14. #34
    Why? People arent able to relieve their sexual frustration as easily, which leads to them resorting to more extreme things like rape if they havent got any other outlet for their build up

  15. #35
    Sincerely Insincere Y's Avatar
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    Can be the tipping point in some cases/contributing factor simply due to how arousal works, but it in no way shifts the blame.


  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by White View Post
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    Why? People arent able to relieve their sexual frustration as easily, which leads to them resorting to more extreme things like rape if they havent got any other outlet for their build up

    Because rape is a result of the dehumanization of a person in the mind of the attackers and not because of pent up sexual frustration. If anything, the tendency for richest countries (East and West) to have such ease of access to material which objectify and dehumanize the opposite sex increases the possibility of rape in those countries. That's why my sister's old university has a few rapes a year despite it being a very safe place overall.
    No.​

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Y View Post
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    Can be the tipping point in some cases/contributing factor simply due to how arousal works, but it in no way shifts the blame.
    I don't think blame can be shifted in the first place. In my view, each person is responsible for their own actions only.
    No.​

  18. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    I don't think blame can be shifted in the first place. In my view, each person is responsible for their own actions only.
    Every individual is responsible for their own actions, I find it pretty astonishing theres whole movements dedicated to undermine such a basic principle.


  19. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Numinous One View Post
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    This is basically the same shit as blaming a rape victim.

    The kinds of people that are willing to perform sexual crimes are going to do it regardless, whether the victim is naked or wearing a sweater and jeans.

    Blaming victims is just another way of trying to exonerating the perpetrator.
    No it has an effect on the people who are targeted. I find this to be more advice then blaming as in if someone told me to lock my cars when I leave the car.

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Because rape is a result of the dehumanization of a person in the mind of the attackers and not because of pent up sexual frustration. If anything, the tendency for richest countries (East and West) to have such ease of access to material which objectify and dehumanize the opposite sex increases the possibility of rape in those countries. That's why my sister's old university has a few rapes a year despite it being a very safe place overall.
    I think an attacker seeing someone of the opposite gender as inferior to themselves can be a reason for why they commit sexual assualt but it isnt the only reason. The need to procreate is an animal instinct that we all have, and if there isnt alternative methods besides having sex with someone who is willing then obviously more sexual assualts will occur as a result of that. Like I said there, are a lot of factors which can lead to sexual assualt and that can be one of them.


    There are even articles in psychology today backing this up with a lot of cited real world examples where more porn equals less rape.

    https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog...sexual-assault

    - - - Updated - - -

    Heres an excerpt if you dont want to click the link

    Arrival of the Internet: More Porn, LESS RapeBefore the late-1990s when the Internet revolutionized access to information, porn was available in books, skin magazines, rented videocassettes, and at the limited number of seedy theaters that screened X-rated movies. But with the arrival of the Internet, millions of porn images and videos were suddenly just a few clicks away for free. As a result, porn quickly became one of men’s top online destinations and porn consumption soared.
    If the anti-porn activists are correct, if porn actually contributes to rape, then starting around 1999 as the Internet made it much more easily available, the rate of sexual assault should have increased. So what happened? According to the Justice Department’s authoritative National Crime Victimization Survey, since 1995, the U.S. sexual assault rate has FALLEN 44 percent. For more on this, see my previous post, Does Porn Cause Social Harm?
    Clearly, the anti-porn activists are wrong. Porn doesn’t incite men to sexual violence. It looks more like a safety valve that gives men an alternative outlet for potentially assaultive energy. Instead of attacking women, men who might commit that crime can masturbate to unlimited amounts of Internet porn.
    The Czech Republic: More Porn, LESS Rape
    Another natural experiment involves the political changes in Eastern Europe. From 1948 to 1989, the Communist police state then known as Czechoslovakia made possession of pornography (including relatively tame publications like Playboy) a criminal offense punishable by prison. As a result, porn was largely unavailable to Czech men. But when Communism collapsed and the democratic Czech Republic emerged, it legalized porn, which became easily and widely available. So what happened to women’s risk of sexual assault?
    Using Czech police records, American and Czech researchers compared rape rates in the Czech Republic for the 17 years before porn was legalized with rates during the 18 years after. Rapes decreased from 800 a year to 500. More porn, less rape.
    In addition, the legalization of porn was associated with a decrease in another despicable sex crime, child sexual abuse. Under Communism, arrests for child sex abuse averaged 2,000 a year. After porn became legal, the figure dropped by more than half to fewer than 1,000. More porn, fewer sex crimes.
    Denmark: More Porn, LESS Rape
    In the 1970s, Denmark relaxed restrictions on pornography, and the country quickly became a center of porn production. Researchers compared arrest rates for sexual assault before and after the change. When porn became more easily available, allegations of rape decreased.
    Japan, China, Hong Kong: More Porn, LESS Rape
    Around the millennium, partly in response to the availability of Internet porn, Japan, China, and Hong Kong relaxed laws that restricted its availability. In all three places, as porn became more easily available, sex crimes decreased.

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