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Thread: IQ

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    This thread was sparked by a discussion in the EZ where @Fabulous; claimed that IQ has no bearing on success and that Einstein’s 160 IQ wasn’t impressive.



    You can discuss other things here, like race and IQ or your personal IQ.
    You don't need a high IQ to be successful, just an average IQ would be enough, success comes through hard work and persistence with a little luck, that's something everyone can work on but high IQ people tend to rest on their laurels which is their weakness.

    Why are we still correlating IQ with intelligence?
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Daddy Alias View Post
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    Well I wouldn't want you to lose 5 years of your life only to discover that you'll never beat me
    Quote Originally Posted by Big Daddy Alias View Post
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    Meanwhile ... Fab beat me I'm sorry guys

  2. #22
    Crispickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabulous View Post
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    You don't need a high IQ to be successful, just an average IQ would be enough, success comes through hard work and persistence with a little luck, that's something everyone can work on but high IQ people tend to rest on their laurels which is their weakness.

    Why are we still correlating IQ with intelligence?
    tfw I'm agreeing with this

    Couldn't actually believe people were unironically equating iq with success lmao


  3. #23
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispickle View Post
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    tfw I'm agreeing with this

    Couldn't actually believe people were unironically equating iq with success lmao
    https://www.jstor.org/stable/2062865...n_tab_contents

  4. #24
    Knight of Romance Heart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra View Post
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    we conclude that the importance of the role of IQ in predicting life success should not be overestimated.
    did you not even read the abstract of this study Do you have more to link than the abstract of the study? Being a science guy you should understand why looking how the study was conducted and well, the entire actual study itself is necessary for the sake of drawing a conclusion from it.

    It's not crazy or anything to say that someone with a 130 iq is likely to get a better job and grades than someone with a 90 iq, but going as far to say that it can be used to predict your likelihood of doing something great is a really big stretch and is entirely unsupported by this study even if you discounted for stuff like this, "However, we were not able to separate the effect of IQ from its environmental correlates." that show that the study can't say anything nearly conclusive about rather or not iq independently actually has any effect on your success because there are both environmental factors that correlate with a high iq and success that would confound the relationship between high iq and success and because correlations don't prove cause and effect to begin with. What this study would show even if you discounted that, is simply that someone with say a 130 iq is more likely to get a good and stable job and better grades than someone with like a 90 iq, which says nothing about your likelihood of making some worthwhile achievement, which is obviously what fab and you guys are talking about when it comes to success.

  5. #25
    Majesty Kaido's Avatar
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    I believe i have average iq (like 100)

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra View Post
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    this is great

    > take a pool of a handful students all from the same city, year and macro context
    > have them undergo an arbitrary test supposedly measuring their "intelligence"
    > define "life success" with "economic attainment", so basically just compare their monthly incomes 20 years later
    > conclude the quicker kids on average get better grades and earn more than the dumber kids

    and the best thing
    > once realized your test was shit from any point of view and it doesn't say anything meaningful, come up with a bait title and a vague conclusion which is in borderline contradiction with it

    - - - Updated - - -

    usually science just tries to measure an atom's length with a school ruler, and that's enough for me to not have nice things with it

    but here, they tried to measure an atom's length with a thermometer, they broke it during the measurement and they got the atom soaked in mercury, continued with the experience anyway and they wrote an intellectually confused and dishonest article about it. This is all very funny, but if i were an actual scientist i'd be outraged.


  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispickle View Post
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    this is great

    > take a pool of a handful students all from the same city, year and macro context
    > have them undergo an arbitrary test supposedly measuring their "intelligence"
    > define "life success" with "economic attainment", so basically just compare their monthly incomes 20 years later
    > conclude the quicker kids on average get better grades and earn more than the dumber kids

    and the best thing
    > once realized your test was shit from any point of view and it doesn't say anything meaningful, come up with a bait title and a vague conclusion which is in borderline contradiction with it
    its the last part that I love, that he linked a study that says itself not to get too many ideas about iq and success in its abstract

  8. #28
    Magistrate of Hentai Ccrack's Avatar
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    as far as i can tell iq is better suited to finding retards who need help, more than figuring out how successfull someone might be

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fabulous View Post
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    You don't need a high IQ to be successful, just an average IQ would be enough, success comes through hard work and persistence with a little luck, that's something everyone can work on but high IQ people tend to rest on their laurels which is their weakness.

    Why are we still correlating IQ with intelligence?
    Low IQ alert.

    Are you even reading what you’re typing? First you say that IQ is indeed quantitative of intelligence, but then you end the post by saying it isn’t.

    What the hell do you even think IQ is measuring?

    - - - Updated - - -
    @Crispickle; @Heart;

    You don’t even need a study to prove this. Just look at the below map. Note how all the countries with average IQs below 90 are shitholes that no one would want to live in. Yet high IQ coves like the British Isles produced things like liberalism and capitalism that everyone enjoys today.


  10. #30
    Crispickle's Avatar
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    lol

    you tried


  11. #31
    Crispinianus's Avatar
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    You didn’t.

  12. #32
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Heart View Post
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    It's not crazy or anything to say that someone with a 130 iq is likely to get a better job and grades than someone with a 90 iq, but going as far to say that it can be used to predict your likelihood of doing something great is a really big stretch and is entirely unsupported by this study even if you discounted for stuff like this,.
    ...That's what I'm saying, and that's a correlation between IQ and success, which is what Crispy was dismissing. It's a group trend not an individual one.

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispickle View Post
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    this is great

    > take a pool of a handful students all from the same city, year and macro context
    > have them undergo an arbitrary test supposedly measuring their "intelligence"
    > define "life success" with "economic attainment", so basically just compare their monthly incomes 20 years later
    > conclude the quicker kids on average get better grades and earn more than the dumber kids

    and the best thing
    > once realized your test was shit from any point of view and it doesn't say anything meaningful, come up with a bait title and a vague conclusion which is in borderline contradiction with it

    - - - Updated - - -

    usually science just tries to measure an atom's length with a school ruler, and that's enough for me to not have nice things with it

    but here, they tried to measure an atom's length with a thermometer, they broke it during the measurement and they got the atom soaked in mercury, continued with the experience anyway and they wrote an intellectually confused and dishonest article about it. This is all very funny, but if i were an actual scientist i'd be outraged.
    I think you and Heart are too defensive and dismissive. Especially Heart who touts to be some paragon of open mindedness. All I did was link a study as supporting evidence and you completely sperg out. I won't say your points aren't relevant, but how are you applying any methodology of your own to support your argument as the factual trutth?

    It's been a while since I read a study on IQ but it seems like intelligence correlates with success, intelligence is heritable, and IQ is a general good aptitude test when it comes to intelligence. I didn't say it was absolute.

    ...And how is economic success not a good indicator of "life success"? It's a very important one, doubtless. I mean if you can accept the conclusion of the study is correct on that end that seems reasonable to me because that's what I was referring to.

    Would you like me to bring up more studies
    Last edited by Ultra; 01-14-2018 at 10:31 PM.

  13. #33
    When was correlation ever causation?
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  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zu View Post
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    When was correlation ever causation?
    Be more specific.

  15. #35
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    well, by all means do bring more studies. I hope this wasn't the best you had cuz that'd be sad.

    let me just say that economic success = life success is an embarrassingly lowly approximation, extremely circumstantial and bigoted at that. It's no different from measuring the "freedom" of an individual according to the sheer number of civil laws he needs to oblige, or the "happiness" of a person proportionally to the number of nintendo games they own. Achieving life success can mean getting the job you were born to do, even if it's a modest one, or being a good father, or a knowledgeable expert of dead languages, or an honest citizen, a teacher loved by their students, a monk who found their vocation, or innumerable other cases of people who achieved a sort of life success without necessarily swimming in money. And no, these aren't exceptions. These are actually the norm. A lot of people aren't successful, but most people who define their life successful will not do so mentioning the size of their back account check.


  16. #36
    Sincerely Insincere Y's Avatar
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    Correlation doesn't necessarily imply causation.


    While having a high IQ is definitely a possible contributing factor to success there's obviously cases where it's not involved. The likelihood of a person with higher IQ being succesfull being higher than one with less is obviously skewed to the former.

    But there's too many factors in what ultimately determines 'success'.

    tl;dr It helps. Felt like I was doing nothing but stating the obvious with that though


  17. #37
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    Be more specific.
    He's trying to say just because IQ correlates with more success does not mean it causes it. I assume some argument along the lines of "well, being raised in a modern first world country is an environment that causes a higher IQ and..." etc

    But if that's the case, you could bring up that blacks from high income backgrounds perform worse on SAT's than white's from low income



    And then you could attribute poor test scores from blacks on to cultural factors...

    there's all sorts of factors to account for in these discussions, but there definitely is a right answer and it's worth talking about to get to the bottom of it

  18. #38
    Knight of Romance Heart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra View Post
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    ...That's what I'm saying, and that's a correlation between IQ and success, which is what Crispy was dismissing. It's a group trend not an individual one.



    I think you and Heart are too defensive and dismissive. Especially Heart who touts to be some paragon of open mindedness. All I did was link a study as supporting evidence and you completely sperg out. I won't say your points aren't relevant, but how are you applying any methodology of your own to support your argument as the factual trutth?

    It's been a while since I read a study on IQ but it seems like intelligence correlates with success, intelligence is heritable, and IQ is a general good aptitude test when it comes to intelligence. I didn't say it was absolute.

    ...And how is economic success not a good indicator of "life success"? It's a very important one, doubtless. I mean if you can accept the conclusion of the study is correct on that end that seems reasonable to me because that's what I was referring to.

    Would you like me to bring up more studies
    its not being defensive when I point out that the study you linked itself says there are confounding variables and not to overestimate the link between iq and success

    I think you'd have much more reasonable opinions in general if you logically considered them yourself first before sheeping random studies. Using this train of thought I could start throwing random studies at you about red wine being good for your heart to prove that alcoholism is good for you.

    Until now, I've been discussing this on your terms, but looking at it a bit deeper, do you not see the problem with trying to measure something that is not concretely defined and not universally defined with numbers and than claim that those numbers can predict another concept like success that can't be concretely and universally defined?

    Also, i think you're a bit confused because if all you're really trying to prove is a correlation, than well, that has no practical value to any discussion because in and of itself it doesn't imply anything except that two things are more likely to occur together. For example, race might correlate with success but because of confounding variables that doesn't really imply anything. Say IQ correlates with success, that doesn't imply anything or mean anything at all really. What you're trying to imply, even if you don't realize it, is that having a high intelligence will cause you to be more successful and that iq is a good measure of intelligence, because thats the only implication that could have any actual relevance or meaning. The problem with this claim is... well there's no supporting evidence lol. And don't take it the wrong way, I think that being intelligent basically means you're able to more easily do a lot of things, and that you're able to do complex things that other can't, but if anything, I'd say after a certain point being smart runs counter to your happiness, just from personal experience but it also makes sense. Being a lot smarter than average means being a lot different, it means that the very way you view the world is a lot different than the way majority views things, you're literally at odds with the very world you exist in, and in the most basic of ways.

  19. #39
    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    Be more specific.
    Y and Ultra covered it.
    Last edited by Zu; 01-14-2018 at 10:56 PM.
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  20. #40
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispickle View Post
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    well, by all means do bring more studies. I hope this wasn't the best you had cuz that'd be sad.

    let me just say that economic success = life success is an embarrassingly lowly approximation, extremely circumstantial and bigoted at that. It's no different from measuring the "freedom" of an individual according to the sheer number of civil laws he needs to oblige, or the "happiness" of a person proportionally to the number of nintendo games they own. Achieving life success can mean getting the job you were born to do, even if it's a modest one, or being a good father, or a knowledgeable expert of dead languages, or an honest citizen, a teacher loved by their students, a monk who found their vocation, or innumerable other cases of people who achieved a sort of life success without necessarily swimming in money. And no, these aren't exceptions. These are actually the norm. A lot of people aren't successful, but most people who define their life successful will not do so mentioning the size of their back account check.
    You're thinking on an individual level. Let's just say the high IQ group has a higher percentage of people who AREN'T completely poor and starving, because being super rich is a minority in both categories. Having a house and a stable, average income is objectively better than shooting heroin in an alley. This is more along the lines of what I mean.

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