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  1. #1
    ReXDrake's Avatar
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    Big Mam vs her "greatest creation"

    Inconceivably, a few people have lowered their opinion of BM as a combatant following her humiliation at the hands of Jinbe and Brook

    I therefore ask those people, how much diff can Katakuri give her?






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  2. #2
    Formerly named John Wick Mercantilist's Avatar
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    Mid diff

  3. #3
    Banned Whitebeard's Avatar
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    Probably mid diff. It's not that Katakuri has had an excellent performance against Luffy either. I expected a lot more from a FM.
    Last edited by Whitebeard; 01-07-2018 at 10:57 AM.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Whitebeard View Post
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    Probably mid diff. It's not that Katakuri has had an excellent performance against Luffy either. I expected a lot more from a FM.
    I agree but that was mainly due to PIS and his tea time bs. When we look at the fight aside from that he never got hit. Not even by G4.


  5. #5
    Sword of the Morning Dellinger's Avatar
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    Low.





  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dellinger View Post
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    Low.
    Do you take the BM vs brooke and jinbe scenes seriously?






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  7. #7
    Sword of the Morning Dellinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    Do you take the BM vs brooke and jinbe scenes seriously?
    Why would I take those scenes seriously when Big Mom clearly seems weakened, and when both Jinbe and Brook can cockblock her homies ? Not to mention she didn't really have any real intention to kill them at the time. She's only searching for cake. Jinbe is the same guy that didn't even flinch from Akainu's magma punch.





  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalIce View Post
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    I agree but that was mainly due to PIS and his tea time bs. When we look at the fight aside from that he never got hit. Not even by G4.
    Him not being able to connect with base Luffy was very inconsistent with what has been set as a standard for FMs ever since Marineford. You could argue it was plot shield, but feats are feats and we can't ignore them. Even with Big Mom vs weaker strawhats, it's obvious the plot shield was the only thing that kept them alive, but I didn't ignore those feats. The whole Big Mom Pirates have been completely incompetent in what they do and failed spectacularly more than once. Maybe Katakuri has been the only guy that was somewhat competent, but even then...

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dellinger View Post
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    Why would I take those scenes seriously when Big Mom clearly seems weakened, and when both Jinbe and Brook can cockblock her homies ? Not to mention she didn't really have any real intention to kill them at the time. She's only searching for cake. Jinbe is the same guy that didn't even flinch from Akainu's magma punch.
    Just making sure the answer wasn't yes






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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Whitebeard View Post
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    Him not being able to connect with base Luffy was very inconsistent with what has been set as a standard for FMs ever since Marineford. You could argue it was plot shield, but feats are feats and we can't ignore them. Even with Big Mom vs weaker strawhats, it's obvious the plot shield was the only thing that kept them alive, but I didn't ignore those feats. The whole Big Mom Pirates have been completely incompetent in what they do and failed spectacularly more than once. Maybe Katakuri has been the only guy that was somewhat competent, but even then...
    Inconsistent with what exactly ? This isn't pre skip Luffy.

    I mean Luffy in the next arc is gonna look even better than your favorite Marco and you still try to downplay Katakuri.





  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Whitebeard View Post
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    Him not being able to connect with base Luffy was very inconsistent with what has been set as a standard for FMs ever since Marineford. You could argue it was plot shield, but feats are feats and we can't ignore them. Even with Big Mom vs weaker strawhats, it's obvious the plot shield was the only thing that kept them alive, but I didn't ignore those feats. The whole Big Mom Pirates have been completely incompetent in what they do and failed spectacularly more than once. Maybe Katakuri has been the only guy that was somewhat competent, but even then...
    Why cant we throw those scenes in the trashcan? They cant be reconciled with the rest of the manga, an make zero sense by themselves, so why not get forget about them altogether?






    Not everyone dies because they want to die.

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  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Whitebeard View Post
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    Him not being able to connect with base Luffy was very inconsistent with what has been set as a standard for FMs ever since Marineford. You could argue it was plot shield, but feats are feats and we can't ignore them. Even with Big Mom vs weaker strawhats, it's obvious the plot shield was the only thing that kept them alive, but I didn't ignore those feats. The whole Big Mom Pirates have been completely incompetent in what they do and failed spectacularly more than once. Maybe Katakuri has been the only guy that was somewhat competent, but even then...
    He did connect. But the plot demanded Luffy to stay alive and somehow escape. Luffy also was more focused on running away than fighting Katakuri once he got completly overpowered. Obviously Luffy wasn't a threat to him at all, that was made pretty obvious imo. Its not like we take Pre ts Luffy tanking a Kizaru kick or dodging Mihawks attacks that serious either.


  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dellinger View Post
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    Inconsistent with what exactly ? This isn't pre skip Luffy.

    I mean Luffy in the next arc is gonna look even better than your favorite Marco and you still try to downplay Katakuri.
    This isn't downplaying. I mean we saw how FMs like Marco can connect with Admirals in Marineford. Yet, Katakuri with advanced CoO was having trouble connecting with base Luffy? Doesn't seem right in my opinion. It's not that I've changed my opinion on him either way. I gave him mid diff before against mama. Same for now.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    Just making sure the answer wasn't yes
    This is the true difference between Big Mom and Katakuri










  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dellinger View Post
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    This is the true difference between Big Mom and Katakuri





    That's not being fair at all. Katakuri wasn't focused when he took those hits, and strength mochi was able to withstand kong gun just as easily as BM could






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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    Why cant we throw those scenes in the trashcan? They cant be reconciled with the rest of the manga, an make zero sense by themselves, so why not get forget about them altogether?
    True, they are inconsistent with what has been shown so far. However, those scenes happened and this is a problem. We cannot ignore canon material. I already admitted that most of this has been because the Big Mom Pirates have gone againat the strawhats and mostly it's plot shield. Even before, I have said Katakuri gives mid diff to Big Mom.
    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalIce View Post
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    He did connect. But the plot demanded Luffy to stay alive and somehow escape. Luffy also was more focused on running away than fighting Katakuri once he got completly overpowered. Obviously Luffy wasn't a threat to him at all, that was made pretty obvious imo. Its not like we take Pre ts Luffy tanking a Kizaru kick or dodging Mihawks attacks that serious either.
    Plot shield has been present, no doubt about that. I jus feel like Katakuri hasn't been in the level I expected him to be. And as I said before, even if we compeltely ignore those scenes, mid diff for Big Mom seems reasonable to me.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Whitebeard View Post
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    This isn't downplaying. I mean we saw how FMs like Marco can connect with Admirals in Marineford. Yet, Katakuri with advanced CoO was having trouble connecting with base Luffy? Doesn't seem right in my opinion. It's not that I've changed my opinion on him either way. I gave him mid diff before against mama. Same for now.

    Why do you guys always ignore context and twist things to your favor ? Marco only connected 2 attacks when Kizaru was in mid air, still got up in a split second, and when Aokiji was playing with Luffy. Heck G3 got a hit on Fujitora, what does that mean ? G3 is better than Katakuri now ?

    You guys act like base Luffy is some slow dude when we have literally seen that this is not the case during the whole time skip.

    Also Luffy started following Katakuri's pattern of changing the direction of his attacks towards an evading Luffy. He adapted to it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    That's not being fair at all. Katakuri wasn't focused when he took those hits, and strength mochi was able to withstand kong gun just as easily as BM could
    That's not fair ? You guys try to shit on on clearly weakened Big Mom yet it's not fair when we see the actual difference between Big Mom's strength and Katakuri's ? Heck your opening post speaks of a humiliation when Big Mom is weakened, when she isn't trying to kill them and when Jinbe and Brook counter her abilities. Also we didn't see strength mochi directly clashing with G4.





  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Whitebeard View Post
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    True, they are inconsistent with what has been shown so far. However, those scenes happened and this is a problem. We cannot ignore canon material. I already admitted that most of this has been because the Big Mom Pirates have gone againat the strawhats and mostly it's plot shield. Even before, I have said Katakuri gives mid diff to Big Mom.


    Plot shield has been present, no doubt about that. I jus feel like Katakuri hasn't been in the level I expected him to be. And as I said before, even if we compeltely ignore those scenes, mid diff for Big Mom seems reasonable to me.
    Why not?






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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Whitebeard View Post
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    True, they are inconsistent with what has been shown so far. However, those scenes happened and this is a problem. We cannot ignore canon material. I already admitted that most of this has been because the Big Mom Pirates have gone againat the strawhats and mostly it's plot shield. Even before, I have said Katakuri gives mid diff to Big Mom.


    Plot shield has been present, no doubt about that. I jus feel like Katakuri hasn't been in the level I expected him to be. And as I said before, even if we compeltely ignore those scenes, mid diff for Big Mom seems reasonable to me.
    I agree with mid diff. The problem for most people I think is that OP doesn't operate like Bleach for example when it comes to those things. Like when Barragan couldn't even scratch Aizen because he had that much more reiatsu. OP has never been like that. We even saw in the beginning that even freaking Axe hand Morgan could wound Garp when he was asleep. Does that mean he is close to his lvl? No but people can get wounded or be visibly hurt by characters several tiers below them. That doesn't change the gap that exists between those characters or how much they are able to tank overall.
    I guess people just interpret way too much into small details that don't have a much deeper meaning aside from showing that someone like Luffy isn't completly useless.


  20. #20
    ReXDrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dellinger View Post
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    Why do you guys always ignore context and twist things to your favor ? Marco only connected 2 attacks when Kizaru was in mid air, still got up in a split second, and when Aokiji was playing with Luffy. Heck G3 got a hit on Fujitora, what does that mean ? G3 is better than Katakuri now ?

    You guys act like base Luffy is some slow dude when we have literally seen that this is not the case during the whole time skip.

    Also Luffy started following Katakuri's pattern of changing the direction of his attacks towards an evading Luffy. He adapted to it.

    - - - Updated - - -



    That's not fair ? You guys try to shit on on clearly weakened Big Mom yet it's not fair when we see the actual difference between Big Mom's strength and Katakuri's ? Heck your opening post speaks of a humiliation when Big Mom is weakened, when she isn't trying to kill them and when Jinbe and Brook counter her abilities. Also we didn't see strength mochi directly clashing with G4.
    I don't take the scene seriously though. Also, strength mochi gets used to block a kong gun on the first page of ch 885






    Not everyone dies because they want to die.

    Most of them die against their will

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