Jellal vs Marco Pheonix

[Tokio]

@Dellinger;

problem this feat has always had is that you can't prove rayleigh intercepted kizaru's actual ls movement

you don't see when rayleigh began to move but you do see that he noticed kizaru's beam and it's path of travel, from a very close proximity, a good amount of time before he actually began to travel through it

we don't see rayleigh begin to move and he clearly didn't need to react to rayleigh's actual movement to perform the feat

what am i missing, what's changed?

[Dellinger]

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@Dellinger;

problem this feat has always had is that you can't prove rayleigh intercepted kizaru's actual ls movement

you don't see when rayleigh began to move but you do see that he noticed kizaru's beam and it's path of travel, from a very close proximity, a good amount of time before he actually began to travel through it

we don't see rayleigh begin to move and he clearly didn't need to react to rayleigh's actual movement to perform the feat

what am i missing, what's changed?

I can. First I've proved that Kizaru already transformed and started moving. Both the sequence of the panels and the sound effect translation support my claim.

Also occam's razor does help me in this case. Kizaru would have to be really dumb to already move with Rayleigh already drawing his sword and swinging it at his direction.

[Efege]

[Tokio]

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I can. First I've proved that Kizaru already transformed and started moving. Both the sequence of the panels and the sound effect translation support my claim.

Also occam's razor does help me in this case. Kizaru would have to be really dumb to already move with Rayleigh already drawing his sword and swinging it at his direction.

well, evidently he was dumb enough to initiate that very telegraphed technique right in front of his face in the first place, so there's that. from that we already know from the moment he started the technique that he wasn't being as cautious as he should've been, so i wouldn't say that's very solid support. more of a case of his underestimating rayleigh, really.

and like i said, it's not a matter of whether or not kizaru was already moving. it's obvious that he was. the issue is that we don't know when rayleigh started moving and can't prove that he moved in reaction to kizaru's ls movement.

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i mean, would you honestly expect rayleigh to just sit there until kizaru started moving? that a character as competent as rayleigh with both a form of pre-cognition and a clear view of the path kizaru was going to travel wouldn't be able to time an attack in advance?

[Skeptik]

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he was literally right next to kizaru

rayleigh had plenty of time to cut off kizaru's path of travel without reacting to his actual movement. kinda baffling how this is still being discussed.

Oh ok. My bad. I thought y'all were talking about another scene.

But since kizaru was mid-movement, wouldn't you need that kind of speed anyway?

[The Elementalist]

This is not the place to talk about Relativistic One Piece can we take this to the Meta Battledome?

[Tokio]

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Oh ok. My bad. I thought y'all were talking about another scene.

But since kizaru was mid-movement, wouldn't you need that kind of speed anyway?

not necessarily

since rayleigh already knew the path of his movement and the timing he didn't need to react to kizaru's actual movement. he could've aimed or targeted where kizaru was going to be before he was actually there, kinda like an offensive application of aim-dodging. that being such a strong possibility, it can't be proved that rayleigh reacted to kizaru's ls movement so the feat can't be used.

there's a reason why this decade old feat has never passed

[Reality]

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Because it acts extremely similar to actual light unlike Stings Magic.

Yes but how?

[Dellinger]

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well, evidently he was dumb enough to initiate that very telegraphed technique right in front of his face in the first place, so there's that. from that we already know from the moment he started the technique that he wasn't being as cautious as he should've been, so i wouldn't say that's very solid support. more of a case of his underestimating rayleigh, really.

and like i said, it's not a matter of whether or not kizaru was already moving. it's obvious that he was. the issue is that we don't know when rayleigh started moving and can't prove that he moved in reaction to kizaru's ls movement.

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i mean, would you honestly expect rayleigh to just sit there until kizaru started moving? that a character as competent as rayleigh with both a form of pre-cognition and a clear view of the path kizaru was going to travel wouldn't be able to time an attack in advance?

Kizaru probably thought that he could get past Rayleigh with his speed.

Also regarding the movement of Rayleigh. Manga is a visual format. The panels, the way they played out suggests that Rayleigh only moved when Kizaru initiated the attack. There is absolutely no reason to assume that Rayleigh already moved before Kizaru transformed and started his travel.

Also why not ? Rayleigh was cautious, him starting his movement before means that he would only cut the light path. That means that it would cause no damage to Kizaru.

[Rax]

>Still trying to argue LS OP

[Tokio]

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Kizaru probably thought that he could get past Rayleigh with his speed.

right. makes your earlier point moot.

Also regarding the movement of Rayleigh. Manga is a visual format. The panels, the way they played out suggests that Rayleigh only moved when Kizaru initiated the attack. There is absolutely no reason to assume that Rayleigh already moved before Kizaru transformed and started his travel.

entirely up to interpretation

nothing really definitive

Also why not ? Rayleigh was cautious, him starting his movement before means that he would only cut the light path. That means that it would cause no damage to Kizaru.

it means he'd be able to target where kizaru would be on the light path before he actually got there, allowing him to intercept kizaru's movement without actually matching his speed

[Dellinger]

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right. makes your earlier point moot.

It doesn't ? Kizaru starting his movement, doesn't that he is a dumbass and started his movement after Rayleigh swinged his sword which is what you imply.

entirely up to interpretation

nothing really definitive

Yeah no. We don't go with what suits your argument, we go with what makes sense and we what we see on panel. Sorry.

it means he'd be able to target where kizaru would be on the light path before he actually got there, allowing him to intercept kizaru's movement without actually matching his speed

How do you intercept someone without nearly matching his speed ? I mean even what you suggests here makes the feat relativistic which is what the calc is all about.

[Tokio]

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It doesn't ? Kizaru starting his movement, doesn't that he is a dumbass and started his movement after Rayleigh swinged his sword which is what you imply.

your argument implies that the only other alternative reasoning for kizaru not stopping is his blatantly disregarding rayleigh's presence or actions, when you know that's not true. could've just been underestimating rayleigh, as you just acknowledged.

kizaru's not a dumbass that just ignored rayleigh, he just thought he could get passed him with his speed, right?

kizaru initiating the technique in the first place contradicts this reasoning of yours to begin with, anyways.

Yeah no. We don't go with what suits your argument, we go with what makes sense and we what we see on panel. Sorry.

you can interpret the panels however you want, but we don't actually see rayleigh moving in response to kizaru's ls movement. can't really say that you're going by what you see on panel when what you're arguing wasn't actually shown. that's the whole point.

How do you intercept someone without nearly matching his speed ? I mean even what you suggests here makes the feat relativistic which is what the calc is all about.

...

[Mythoclast]

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>Still trying to argue LS OP

It's almost as bad as you arguing small continent level FT.

[Rax]

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It's almost as bad as you arguing small continent level FT.

>Etherion already exists

[Mythoclast]

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>Etherion already exists

Pika Pika no mi exists too

[Rax]

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Pika Pika no mi exists too

And?

Doesn't mean LS OP

[Mythoclast]

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And?

Doesn't mean LS OP

It does mean that for Kizaru.

[Rax]

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It does mean that for Kizaru.

>One specific technique that's movement speed and arguable since his light doesn't behave like real light just as logias have had tons of natural element inconsistencies

[Mythoclast]

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>One specific technique that's movement speed and arguable since his light doesn't behave like real light just as logias have had tons of natural element inconsistencies

I'm not gonna even bother trying..