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  1. #41
    Kaikou was speaking similar to how Rinbou did when assessing Ouki's strength.

    Both wrong, just Hara with his usual hyping

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Great Potato View Post
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    It seems like whenever we see a big powerhouse commander, there are people who write them off as just unskilled brute forcers who just throw their weight around, without anything really supporting that assumption. I've seen it with Moubu, Kanmei, Gaimou, and now Zenou.

    Zenou is the top dog of a bloodthirsty battle hungry tribe that worships battle, there's no reason to assume he's not very proficient at fighting to be able to work himself up to where he is, and if those scars aren't self inflicted than it speaks of a long history of battle experience. Now I know Zenou is Kanki's berserker and is a bandit that should lack formal training, but we don't claim Bajio is unskilled for being in a similar boat; in fact, Bajio is at his most dangerous when he reduces himself to his primal bloodthirsty state and starts operating on battle instincts alone and that's basically Zenou's defacto state on or off the battlefield.

    I think he's not going to have the finely tuned technical skills of Rinko or Shouheikun but I think he'd make up for it in his raw ferocity and primal battle instincts honed over a long career as part of a berserker fighting clan. I don't think it's fair to just say he's naÔve in battle or compare his skills to a mutated gorilla.
    You deny any evidence supporting the claim that Zenou is purely a brute fighter, yet you fail to provide any evidence for him being anything more than that, yourself, despite the fact that we’ve seen him in action a couple of times now.

    As you said, they relish battlefield to the point that they would gladly charge into a hopeless odds just for its thrill, but someone who would throw himself deliberately to the death fangs would treasure the battlefield more than their own lives; and with this kind of mindset, it’s clear that they don’t take into consideration things like instincts and tactics in battle.

    Yet you simply limp this savage with Moubu and Kanmei?! w t f . This long experience you spoke off stems to the time when they were bandits when they used to live to fight and not fight to live, and even after fighting under Kanki’s banners, their only specialty is blindly charging forward to whatever and whoever they happen to be unleashed on. There’s no such thing as a proper warfare experience gained from that, it’s basically a daily routinic act to them, rather than a skill that can be honed and developed. The only one who gains and is still gaining battle experience, by moving them as his pawns on the chess board, is Kanki. Needless to mention, if it’s the raw martial type of experience then, naturally, yes! they’ve got a plenty of that. However, battle-experience is a whole different thing. Kanki had to subjugate them before absorbing them into his army, and you can imagine what subjugating them means, but he did so with the great gap in strength and probably without losing big names in his ranks. It's because a tactical fight isn't the same as a blind fight.

    The difference between Moubu is that Moubu is that Moubu fights knowing perfectly well of his opponents strategy and aim, despite using brute force himself to counter it, take what he did against Ri Haku at the battle of Bayou as an example. On the otherhand, Zenou charges with 0 knowledge and 0 insight of what's happening in front of him. Basically, it's the difference between an enormously strong fully fledged GG and an ox who sees the red in the battlefield.

    But I’d say Zenou is more like Houken than Bajio. While Bajio can be given missions that he carries out as he sees fits, Zenou must be instructed as to how will he carry out his mission A to Z (which is probably a sudden berserk attack straight as arrow). I believe I don’t need to type out this post again to prove that he’s a brain free monster.
    Quote Originally Posted by DreX View Post
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    Some people underestimate Zeno too much, and I think it’s because they ignore the balance of stats in Kingdom. Ko-Shou of Qin's 6 was a pure strategist who could've had the raw strength that is of a bug, but you all can bet your asses that
    1. He had a strategical and tactical brain that was of a league on its own even compared to the other 5
    2. He had commanders under his own that are extraordinarily strong for there ranks.
    His strength could’ve very well shooted past 100, such that the sum of his stats aren’t very inferior to his peers.

    This is something I can relate to because - beside common sense - we know that RinShou-Jo, who was established as someone with a slightly lacking raw martial strength, could become one of Zhou's 3 heavens because he was extremely intelligent that he could predict the current turn in events (or a glimpse of it) on the deathbed. Ofc, he also had commanders like Gyou'un who were interpreted as monsters representing Zhou's military. From that perspective, it’s only sensible that he had 10 commanders working under him.


    RinShou-Jo might very well be the reflection of Kanki, as we see him having the strength of just over 90, yet is often referred to the prodigy of Qin. In a sense, this gives a rough interpretation of how strong Kanki's powerhouse is to complement his brain.

    For Zeno, I think we can scratch on his intelligence and experience - which is why Kanki introduced that whistling system imo. In analogy, he and his boys are just like one hella strong arrow that is being thrown to one clear target; but in the chance that their advance was halted by a turn of events that they weren't pre-instructed to act on, they lose all sense and won't be able to cope with the situation by even the simplest counter - I mean, dude can barely talk some random words, much less learn something referred to as strategy, his boys are also a bunch of brainless savages that are retarded enough that they fail to comprehend that Kanki, their highest commander, isn't to be slaughtered when he passed by. : facepalm. I wanna get my point straight here, that him being one of Kanki's vessels, not to mention, his secret weapon with the amount of vacuum in his head, means a lot to his strength.

    You guys refer to feats as if it was the only scale when it's mostly irrelevant when we clearly haven't seen the max potential of the person in question. With a casual swing, under the clueless situation for him, he sent kishi flying. Perhaps that swing was merely a self-defense, otherwise, if he has a bit of a brain to realize that he should finish the guy who turned the tides on him on spot, he could've killed kishi with another swing or two. Fortunately, or unfortunately, Zeno was fixated on Kishi like an idiot as instructed by Kanki
    Last edited by DreX; 01-12-2018 at 06:50 PM.


  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by DreX View Post
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    You deny any evidence supporting the claim that Zenou is purely a brute fighter, yet you fail to provide any evidence for him being anything more than that, yourself, despite the fact that weíve seen him in action a couple of times now.

    As you said, they relish battlefield to the point that they would gladly charge into a hopeless odds just for its thrill, but someone who would throw himself deliberately to the death fangs would treasure the battlefield more than their own lives; and with this kind of mindset, itís clear that they donít take into consideration things like instincts and tactics in battle.

    Yet you simply limp this savage with Moubu and Kanmei?! w t f . This long experience you spoke off stems to the time when they were bandits when they used to live to fight and not fight to live, and even after fighting under Kankiís banners, their only specialty is blindly charging forward to whatever and whoever they happen to be unleashed on. Thereís no such thing as a proper warfare experience gained from that, itís basically a daily routinic act to them, rather than a skill that can be honed and developed. The only one who gains and is still gaining battle experience, by moving them as his pawns on the chess board, is Kanki. Needless to mention, if itís the raw martial type of experience then, naturally, yes! theyíve got a plenty of that. However, battle-experience is a whole different thing. Kanki had to subjugate them before absorbing them into his army, and you can imagine what subjugating them means, but he did so with the great gap in strength and probably without losing big names in his ranks. It's because a tactical fight isn't the same as a blind fight.

    The difference between Moubu is that Moubu is that Moubu fights knowing perfectly well of his opponents strategy and aim, despite using brute force himself to counter it, take what he did against Ri Haku at the battle of Bayou as an example. On the otherhand, Zenou charges with 0 knowledge and 0 insight of what's happening in front of him. Basically, it's the difference between an enormously strong fully fledged GG and an ox who sees the red in the battlefield.

    But Iíd say Zenou is more like Houken than Bajio. While Bajio can be given missions that he carries out as he sees fits, Zenou must be instructed as to how will he carry out his mission A to Z (which is probably a sudden berserk attack straight as arrow). I believe I donít need to type out this post again to prove that heís a brain free monster.
    We're not talking about leadership here, we're talking about a duel. Zenou wouldn't hold a candle to these guys if it was an actual battlefield between their forces but fighting is the one thing he's good at.

  4. #44
    Quote Originally Posted by Great Potato View Post
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    We're not talking about leadership here, we're talking about a duel. Zenou wouldn't hold a candle to these guys if it was an actual battlefield between their forces but fighting is the one thing he's good at.
    That's more like it. Good job ditching it all aside, though
    Last edited by DreX; 01-12-2018 at 08:27 PM.


  5. #45
    Zenou might be a brute but he isn't some mindless-Rankai equivalent. He was smart enough to know when to retreat and sneaky enough to know when and where to make a sneak/stealth attack which had nothing to do with blunt force.

    That being said, one doesn't need to be comparable to Moubu to be able to slaughter SHK unless you buy into fake hype.
    Last edited by Kanki; 01-13-2018 at 06:38 AM.

  6. #46
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    Zenou smashes that Overrated pile of horeshit called SHK to pieces. The only one that I can reasonaby give the benefit of doubt over Zenou in that List is Kashibou. And even then I think Zenou wins in a duel.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Caesar View Post
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    Zenou smashes that Overrated pile of horeshit called SHK to pieces. The only one that I can reasonaby give the benefit of doubt over Zenou in that List is Kashibou. And even then I think Zenou wins in a duel.
    Did you seriously just imply that Kaishibou > Zenou >>> Shouheikun? Do you even read Kingdom? Literally every piece of evidence we have contradicts what you said - hype, feats, stats, you name it.
    "What!? Obviously Doflamingo and any other New World saga antagonist can easily beat that Whitebeard pirate with the top hat whose name I forgot, the one who appeared for a few panels at Marineford. Also Barreltheif is my favorite poster on NF." - Eiichiro Oda (SBS)

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by barreltheif View Post
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    Did you seriously just imply that Kaishibou > Zenou >>> Shouheikun? Do you even read Kingdom? Literally every piece of evidence we have contradicts what you said - hype, feats, stats, you name it.
    You are 100% correct, bro. Zenou > Kaishibou > SHK in a 1 on 1. Clear as day, obvious to all who read and don't buy fake hype. Zenou is clearly > Kaishibou, as you said.

    It is known.

  9. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by barreltheif View Post
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    Did you seriously just imply that Kaishibou > Zenou >>> Shouheikun? Do you even read Kingdom? Literally every piece of evidence we have contradicts what you said - hype, feats, stats, you name it.
    Kashibou's martial might was equated to Renpa himself; a certified great-general monster. Kashibou was also sated to have over 100 victories while operating on his own. That is plenty to have faith in his abilities even against Zenou. Hell, remember the Fact that the man has already faced the Kanki army and Kanki decided not to face him head on, Kanki instead resorted to Hit and run tactics against him. Not to mention when Kashibou finally cornered the Kanki army headquarters, the Kanki HQ was decimated in a short amount of time. Please tell me where SHK has any of the feats and hype to match all of this? All you have done is mention cheap overblown hype with no feats. I would be waiting.

  10. #50
    Quote Originally Posted by J.Caesar View Post
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    Kashibou's martial might was equated to Renpa himself; a certified great-general monster. Kashibou was also sated to have over 100 victories while operating on his own. That is plenty to have faith in his abilities even against Zenou. Hell, remember the Fact that the man has already faced the Kanki army and Kanki decided not to face him head on, Kanki instead resorted to Hit and run tactics against him. Not to mention when Kashibou finally cornered the Kanki army headquarters, the Kanki HQ was decimated in a short amount of time. Please tell me where SHK has any of the feats and hype to match all of this? All you have done is mention cheap overblown hype with no feats. I would be waiting.
    Kanki never faces anyone head on. The Kanki HQ was destroyed because it had largely been abandoned. Kanki scattered his forces across the area, and he and all but one of his commanders left.

    By hype: Kaishibou was compared to Renpa "in just destructive power alone". SHK was compared to Moubu in overall martial strength.

    By feats: Kaishibou defeated Kanki's HQ. Zenou in a single charge nearly took out both Keisha and Kisui. It took most of the Zhao commanders appearing together just to stall him and prevent him from ending the battle immediately.
    SHK's unit soloed an army in a few minutes, and SHK fodderized a martial general.

    By stats: Kaishibou has a 91 in strength. SHK has a 90 in strength, meaning that you were definitely wrong that Kaishibou >>>> SHK. SHK also fodderized someone who has a 90 in strength.
    "What!? Obviously Doflamingo and any other New World saga antagonist can easily beat that Whitebeard pirate with the top hat whose name I forgot, the one who appeared for a few panels at Marineford. Also Barreltheif is my favorite poster on NF." - Eiichiro Oda (SBS)

  11. #51
    Kaishibou has great charging power not dueling power. Renpa would wreck him in a duel. Totally different things.

  12. #52
    The funny thing is that despite Kaishibou's hype from Genpou, if Kanki actually duel Kaishibou, he's supposed to win going from stats

  13. #53
    Kanki STR stat is based on what though?!

  14. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by barreltheif View Post
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    Kanki never faces anyone head on. The Kanki HQ was destroyed because it had largely been abandoned. Kanki scattered his forces across the area, and he and all but one of his commanders left.

    By hype: Kaishibou was compared to Renpa "in just destructive power alone". SHK was compared to Moubu in overall martial strength.

    By feats: Kaishibou defeated Kanki's HQ. Zenou in a single charge nearly took out both Keisha and Kisui. It took most of the Zhao commanders appearing together just to stall him and prevent him from ending the battle immediately.
    SHK's unit soloed an army in a few minutes, and SHK fodderized a martial general.

    By stats: Kaishibou has a 91 in strength. SHK has a 90 in strength, meaning that you were definitely wrong that Kaishibou >>>> SHK. SHK also fodderized someone who has a 90 in strength.
    The fact that Kanki still decided to use guerella tactics against Kashibou should still mean something. We still don't know just how many forces that Kanki had placed in his HQ, Kashibou decimating it is still a huge feat for him. Zenou is undoubtedly powerful no doubt, but I think Kashibou could have replicated his feat against both keisha and Kisui. I think we should at least give Kashibou a small measure of doubt based on his vast hype, experience and feats. I can admit it would probably be a very difficult fight against either Zenou or SHK though.

  15. #55
    Errr...

    Are we talking about battles or just simply duels?

    Doesn't really say...

  16. #56
    This Zenou wank

    Zenou beating Rinko

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Pirao View Post
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    This Zenou wank

    Zenou beating Rinko
    Rinko standing a chance against Zenou on pure 1 vs 1?

    Zenou wins high diff but still comfy.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Li_Xin View Post
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    Errr...

    Are we talking about battles or just simply duels?

    Doesn't really say...
    Duels, what more needs to be told.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
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    Rinko standing a chance against Zenou on pure 1 vs 1?

    Zenou wins high diff but still comfy.
    Zenou standing a chance against Rinko 1 vs 1 based on what? All those inexistent feats he has?

    Who has Zenou ever faced exactly?

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Pirao View Post
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    Zenou standing a chance against Rinko 1 vs 1 based on what? All those inexistent feats he has?

    Who has Zenou ever faced exactly?
    Kisui, a worthy 3rd Great Heaven candidate. Cause manga tells me. And playing with him like a toy.

  20. #60
    Quote Originally Posted by Duke View Post
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    Kisui, a worthy 3rd Great Heaven candidate. Cause manga tells me. And playing with him like a toy.
    Kisui the 85 str warrior, a great feat indeed

    If Rinko had been the one charging him, Kisui would be a head shorter, instead of just getting a bent glaive.

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