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  1. #1
    Cafe Conqueror X's Avatar
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    Subbing In Dead Players

    I was going to make this thread before I saw Ultra's post in his game, but what do you guys think of this trend? I know I've been on both sides of it (as a mod and as a player, allowing this to happen) but I think it needs to stop. Essentially, any player subbing in should be coming into the game with the same knowledge as the other players. However, when dead players sub in, they inherently know more because of their prior role. For example, imagine if a dead Cop that hadn't revealed who he investigated was allowed to sub back in. All of a sudden, that player knows more information that their new role should have all because they were already playing before. I know we love active players to get back into the game, but I think it's something we need to phase out.


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  2. #2
    Bravo Ragazzo Finalbeta's Avatar
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    Guys who are D1 lynch and submitted no actions should be fine imo

  3. #3
    The Dragon of Katsurahama Nordlending's Avatar
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    All in all. I think there are more negatives than positives with this.

    If this is going to be in the game, it should be written down in the signup thread that this might happen. That way the players know what the signed up for.


    The real world is cold! The real world doesn't care about spirit! You want to be a hero? Then play the part and die like every other Huntsman in history! As for me, I'll do what I do best: lie, steal, cheat and survive!

  4. #4
    The Special One Aether's Avatar
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    well that wouldnt be a problem, as the host shows tracker/cop results at the end of the phase anyway, so if a cop/tracker dies in that phase, the host shouldnt show them any results.


  5. #5
    Ink Spot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Festivus, The Holiday Guy View Post
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    well that wouldnt be a problem, as the host shows tracker/cop results at the end of the phase anyway, so if a cop/tracker dies in that phase, the host shouldnt show them any results.
    think he means more like, say you investigated d1 and d2, and died d3, but didn't share your previous results since you didn't wanna claim cop for obvious reasons. if you should come back in the game, you'd be capable of sharing your results from your previous role. when whoever posessed that role should die with his secrets.

  6. #6
    The Special One Aether's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neighbor Snoop View Post
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    think he means more like, say you investigated d1 and d2, and died d3, but didn't share your previous results since you didn't wanna claim cop for obvious reasons. if you should come back in the game, you'd be capable of sharing your results from your previous role. when whoever posessed that role should die with his secrets.
    oh yea, thats a problem


  7. #7
    Cafe Conqueror X's Avatar
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    Or for example, what if there is an inventor in the game or a role that can give abilities, and then that person gives it to someone, dies, and comes back to sub in for a mafia role. Then that person who got the items would be more of a target.


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  8. #8
    Ink Spot's Avatar
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    i agree that dead players should stay dead, but you got some games where the mod is more lenient, and the game won't suffer much from mainly because the game is kinda suffering from inactivity. but ultra made this game slower to begin with coz of the holidays. i say leave it to the mod of the game, but there is a tell when you are willing to replace one role, but not the others.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Festivus, The Holiday Guy View Post
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    oh yea, thats a problem
    ofc revive roles counters that, but it's different.

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    Quote Originally Posted by X View Post
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    Or for example, what if there is an inventor in the game or a role that can give abilities, and then that person gives it to someone, dies, and comes back to sub in for a mafia role. Then that person who got the items would be more of a target.
    yeah, this is pretty bad

  9. #9
    Bravo Ragazzo Finalbeta's Avatar
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    You can't deny an "innocent" D1 lynched flower who submitted no action the chance to keep having fun

  10. #10
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finalbeta View Post
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    You can't deny an "innocent" D1 lynched flower who submitted no action the chance to keep having fun
    Besides this, the problem is that we shouldn't have to fall back on a circle of "active" players in order to keep the game alive, we should be encouraging other players to post more and get more involved, otherwise the section won't see any more activity than what the dedicated mafiafags can crank out

  11. #11
    Bravo Ragazzo Finalbeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra View Post
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    Besides this, the problem is that we shouldn't have to fall back on a circle of "active" players in order to keep the game alive, we should be encouraging other players to post more and get more involved, otherwise the section won't see any more activity than what the dedicated mafiafags can crank out
    We need players from other forums brother

    It's unlikely anything else will help as much or even close

  12. #12
    Say my name Ultra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finalbeta View Post
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    We need players from other forums brother

    It's unlikely anything else will help as much or even close
    yeah, this is true

    We gotta raid NF or something

  13. #13
    Bravo Ragazzo Finalbeta's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ultra View Post
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    yeah, this is true

    We gotta raid NF or something
    Indeed. I can't get on NF so why not bringing it here after all

  14. #14
    Never been a fan of it.

  15. #15
    ofc it's bad practice, the problem is the alternative. we simply don't have enough subs to deal with the amount of inactive players each game, so if we stop in subbing dead players then the alternative is modkilling the inactive players. modkills just suck is the problem, an entire role goes unused and it's also often very impactful on the game balance.

    the issue that ink lined out is a non-issue, at least in my games, because you don't slot in investigative roles or just roles that have more knowledge than the other players in general after their death. depending on role and alignment, subbing in a player that has already died is often impossible as it would jeopardize the integrity of the game otherwise. i think the problem is really just that a dead player should be dead, and stay dead until the game ends. for example, if mafia kills a strong townie, it would be unfair to slot in that strong townie later on albeit on a different role because that obstacle should have already been dealt with for scum.

    again, the problem is that we don't have a sufficient pool of subs to offset the inactivity, so subbing in dead players where it is possible is the lesser evil atm

  16. #16
    Magistrate of Hentai Ccrack's Avatar
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    i think its more inline with the spirit of the game for eliminated players to remain out untill the next game

  17. #17
    Cafe Conqueror X's Avatar
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    I think a temporary solution, at least on this site, is too make sure that if you're signing up for a game, you're going to play, and that if you don't meet requirements, you're banned from playing for a bit. I don't mean to throw him under the bus, but Nord signs up for almost every game and then almost never posts, forcing the mod to do something about him, which isn't really fair.


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  18. #18
    Ink Spot's Avatar
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    i don't think banning will help raise activity. a player that isn't playing isn't going to be scared of not being able to play anymore

  19. #19
    Crispickle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Neighbor Snoop View Post
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    i don't think banning will help raise activity. a player that isn't playing isn't going to be scared of not being able to play anymore
    the point is, in the meantime they're banned so they won't hurt any other game

    although i think x's proposition is fair for the meme inactives like nord or zoro, it's harder to deal with the inactive newbies (mo, efege, etc) cuz we must make sure we've done anything in our power to encourage them to play properly before being drastic towards them

  20. #20
    Cafe Conqueror X's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    the point is, in the meantime they're banned so they won't hurt any other game

    although i think x's proposition is fair for the meme inactives like nord or zoro, it's harder to deal with the inactive newbies (mo, efege, etc) cuz we must make sure we've done anything in our power to encourage them to play properly before being drastic towards them
    Exactly. Zoro and Nord know better at this point whereas maybe MO and Efege didn't totally know what they were getting into, so they deserve to be eased into it.


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