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  1. #161
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    Unlikely considering snoke doesn't look or sound anything like a muun (plagueis species)
    Isn't that non-canon now?

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  2. #162
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    I've been looking into the extended universe.


    Why the hell didn't they use that stuff?



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  3. #163
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ichiryuu View Post
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    Isn't that non-canon now?
    We see a Muun (San Hill, a separatist from the Intergalactic Banking clan) on geonosis in Attack of the clones, so based off that id say the chance of snoke being plagueis is pretty slim.






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  4. #164
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    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    We see a Muun (San Hill, a separatist from the Intergalactic Banking clan) on geonosis in Attack of the clones, so based off that id say the chance of snoke being plagueis is pretty slim.
    I mean the whole thing about Plagueis being a Muun was made non-canon iirc. Like the only thing we know about Plagueis right now is that he was Sidious Master.

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  5. #165
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    My bad






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  6. #166
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    Okay I'm feeling a bit better about this whole Rey/Force issue after reading Pac's post.

    Finn's subplot is probably my biggest complaint now. Would it even affect the main plot if his and Rose's little adventure wad taken out completely? Though I'm impressed that they had like 4 other main characters to juggle and all of their stories are told pretty well.

  7. #167
    Quote Originally Posted by Ichiryuu View Post
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    Soooo how realistic is the Snoke is Darth Plagueis theory and how many people would actually like it to be true?
    There is a far better theory about Snoke's identity.




  8. #168
    The only disappointment i had was how luke was handled at the end.
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  9. #169
    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifista View Post
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    I'm seeing a lot of exaggerated criticisms here. It's fine to not like the movie but I think some of these criticisms are way off base.

    Mary Sue- a female character that is idealized and perfect in everything she does.

    I've seen this slapped on Rey and I have to ask, um, what movie did you watch? Rey has never been a Mary Sue and has never been perfect in anything. She's confused, scared, and imperfect in her decisions but does her best with what she has and no, it doesn't always end in triumph. If you call Rey a Mary Sue you just don't understand the meaning of the term because that certainly isn't her. Then there're are people who are up in arms because she's female. So what? Like, just because she's female it automatically means she's taking someone's place or whatever? Just chill out, good grief.

    Then I see criticism that she's not of a special lineage. Since when is that a bad thing? Does everyone need to be related to the most plot important people in the storyline? Why is it so bad that Rey just happens to be strong in the force?

    Then there's the Snoke controversy which I don't feel like getting into. In the original Star Wars films, The Emperor didn't make an apperance until the 2nd film and that was just a hologram if I remember, and then not a full appearance until the 3rd movie. And he made evil remarks, fried Luke, and got thrown down a shaft. Twas iconic to be sure but he wasn't centrally important until the prequels. Snoke isn't a Sith but he patterned himself like one and got taken out like one too. Betrayed by his apprentice like The Emperor before him and like, if you want to go there, Plagueis before him in an unceremonious fashion. This change opens up new avenues into how things could go in the future. Hardly see how this is "destroying" the Star Wars universe or whatever.

    Again, there ARE issues to talk about----Finn's useless subplot, Rose's baffling motivations towards the end (I'M IN LOVE AND SAVED YOU BECAUSE YOU WERE GOING TO SAVE US), Commander Purple Hair being needlessly abstruse, Shiny Stormtrooper supposedly being important when she isn't, etc. But there are also good things to talk about as well.
    Gotta disagree with the Marey Sue part. To me it was just an instant turnoff when she immediately knew how to fix the millennium falcon when even Han Solo had trouble with it in a matter of minutes after entering the ship. Defeating trained first order soldiers easily, escaping the prison on the Starkiller base by herself and even defeating Kylo in the end after overpowering him in the force. She never had any training prior to that whatsoever and only knew about the force for a day. That goes against anything that was established in the first 6 movies.
    I hoped that it was just plot convenience and that she would turn out better in this movie. Yet she didn't learn anything from Luke when it comes to fighting with a lightsaber or using the force itself except for the one time on that stone. Now with Luke gone she is in no position to teach anyone about the force since she isn't even a legit Padawan while she is also miles behind Kylo. Yet she somehow is able to perform strong feats with the force for no reason. That's why it was interesting to see who her parents. Because a lot of fans were trying to justify her being so good by having good genes (like Lukes, Obi Wans or even Palpatines). But appearantly that isn't the case at all. Which makes it even more unbelievable for me.
    I have in fact no problem if you don't see it that way but for me all that training every Jedi has done for Years or their whole lifes is appearantly not necessary for Rey because the writers didn't want to bother with that. It's a huge middle finger to all Jedi before her.

    I also wouldn't compare the emperor with Snoke. Palpatine was never meant to be more than just the evil end villian you have to face. The problem with Snoke is that this trilogy is a sequel to those originals and we don't know anything about him or how the first order rose up to power in the first place. We saw Luke and co blowing up the deathstar and defeating the core of the empire. So obviously people will wonder how someone like Snoke was able to unite the rest of the empires forces under him and how he is so powerful. Everything that Luke and the rest of the rebells did was for nothing since the first order just creates more powerful weapons and instantly crushes the republic after 40 minutes in or so. I think the fans deserved to get at least some revelation on the rise of the first order and how Snoke was able to unite them. He is just another empty shell that gets thrown in the trash like Phasma.


  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalIce View Post
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    Gotta disagree with the Marey Sue part. To me it was just an instant turnoff when she immediately knew how to fix the millennium falcon when even Han Solo had trouble with it in a matter of minutes after entering the ship. Defeating trained first order soldiers easily, escaping the prison on the Starkiller base by herself and even defeating Kylo in the end after overpowering him in the force. She never had any training prior to that whatsoever and only knew about the force for a day. That goes against anything that was established in the first 6 movies.
    I hoped that it was just plot convenience and that she would turn out better in this movie. Yet she didn't learn anything from Luke when it comes to fighting with a lightsaber or using the force itself except for the one time on that stone. Now with Luke gone she is in no position to teach anyone about the force since she isn't even a legit Padawan while she is also miles behind Kylo. Yet she somehow is able to perform strong feats with the force for no reason. That's why it was interesting to see who her parents. Because a lot of fans were trying to justify her being so good by having good genes (like Lukes, Obi Wans or even Palpatines). But appearantly that isn't the case at all. Which makes it even more unbelievable for me.
    I have in fact no problem if you don't see it that way but for me all that training every Jedi has done for Years or their whole lifes is appearantly not necessary for Rey because the writers didn't want to bother with that. It's a huge middle finger to all Jedi before her.

    I also wouldn't compare the emperor with Snoke. Palpatine was never meant to be more than just the evil end villian you have to face. The problem with Snoke is that this trilogy is a sequel to those originals and we don't know anything about him or how the first order rose up to power in the first place. We saw Luke and co blowing up the deathstar and defeating the core of the empire. So obviously people will wonder how someone like Snoke was able to unite the rest of the empires forces under him and how he is so powerful. Everything that Luke and the rest of the rebells did was for nothing since the first order just creates more powerful weapons and instantly crushes the republic after 40 minutes in or so. I think the fans deserved to get at least some revelation on the rise of the first order and how Snoke was able to unite them. He is just another empty shell that gets thrown in the trash like Phasma.
    Except none of that really goes against the first six movies.

    Let's start with the Falcon: Rey was a junk dealer/mechanic who had prior knowledge of what was ailing the Falcon and fixed it based on that as she directly said, and considering the technology in the Falcon is centuries old and probably pretty well known and used it's not like she was asked to fix something outside of her wheelhouse. Let's keep in mind how Solo had zero clue what was fucking up the Falcon since it wasn't in the same configuration he last left it. So what does this mean? It might mean Rey actually had a clue of what was happening, where to find it (from a lifetime of having to find parts in machines to sell for food that day), and Solo walked into a situation blind. If Solo had fixed a foreign problem he didn't know the Falcon had because he "knew the Falcon so well," that would be a Gary Stu moment in a nutshell since it had new technology somewhere on the ship he didn't already know of. However, Solo does do a lot of mechanic work as he talked about modifying the Falcon himself. But that would only extend to what he already knows about the Falcon and not just whatever people put on the Falcon without him there.

    Combat: Rey was raised on a planet where physical tiffs were more than likely common and then faced off against a spattering of storm troopers that has traditionally been the laughing stock of all of fiction. Actually, now that I think of it, she really didn't fight any storm troopers. Whenever storm troopers were around she was scarce. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall her kicking through squads of stormtroopers anywhere in the first two films. At Maz's she was in the forest, on Starkiller she was sneaking around to escape, and on Snoke's ship she just surrendered. She either fought regular individuals, people who didn't want to kill her, disheartened combatants, or was just taken captive outright. Aside from that, we see from the get go she carries a weapon with her wherever she goes and commonly gets into arguments about finds with the other residents. That combined with the crushing economy a planet with no regulatory committee is a perfect place for fights to break out all the time in desperation. Especially if people are working for food on a daily basis. And sure we can say she is a Mary Sue for surviving all this time like that, but then we'd have to be ready to admit Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, C3P0, R2D2, and Princess Leia are Mary Stu/Gary Stu types for just surviving a galaxy full of storm troopers in their stronghold. Especially seeing as one was a smuggler who got into brushes with action but was a runner not a fighter, one was a farmer who lived a pretty conflict free life of mostly isolation, one was a protocol robot, one was a trashcan that seemingly can hack anything and the universe uses the only data access port the robot also uses, and one was a princess who for all purposes only served as a legislator and not a soldier. And said army was completely destroyed by what must be the Gary Stu army of Ewoks and what now has to be the galaxy's most Gary Stu side character Lando who can also pilot the Falcon better than Solo to destroy the second Death Star. And that's not even getting into Anakin.

    Training: We should really talk about how Rey more or less had a better understanding of what the Force even was at the beginning of her journey where Luke had nothing. He hadn't even heard of it back on his farm planet. Rey did have the benefit of needing to rely on her senses and physical capabilities a whole lot longer than Luke did by that point. Let's note this is in a series where people got on board the galaxy's most top secret super weapon, got around no problem, and escaped in a fiery dash into the sunset only to come back and do it again. And had a main character with near zero training go off to survive a fight with Darth Vader and be the best pilot the rebellion ever had. That's the first three movies.

    The first prequel movie had a literal small child fight off and successfully destroy a space fleet almost entirely by accident while being a racing ace. Then went on to become the most talented lightsaber combatant pretty much ever despite a very shortened Jedi training course. And all we know about this guy's training is it mostly consisted of him and Kenobi going around the galaxy on death-facing adventures near constantly. I dunno, maybe they spent the first six months knocking out the first 12 years of normal Jedi training.

    Honestly, we never really see Jedi train. When they do? It's really all about channeling or trusting the Force to guide them and to let go of the strains of their life to let the Force work with them. This is even reflected when Dark Side users are trying to empower people they're trying to corrupt. This is what gave a farmer with zero combat or piloting experience the ability to go on to become a galactic legend as a pilot, combatant, and spiritual leader. It also gave a slave who was "too old" for training go on to become one of the most powerful Force users to have ever existed, an accomplished pilot, and a top tier race driver. Note only one of those guys had "proper Jedi training." Sort of since I think he was missing about six years of training on the front end. The other had the universe's most accelerated Jedi training in a swamp with a demented Jedi master and most of that was spent whining about how he couldn't learn this stuff and had to go off and fight. And even then it wasn't that training that gave Luke the power to overcome anything, only to realize what the Force was capable of. It was his own realizations that set his power free. Hell, he got better "Jedi training" in the cockpit of his X-Wing when the ghost of Kenobi told Luke to trust his senses and let the Force tell him where to fire his torpedoes, so Luke could first hand understand what the Force did for him.

    The only middle finger given to anybody by anybody is the Force giving it to precious and previous Jedi before Luke by empowering him to meet the darkness of the galaxy as it's doing again for Rey and Kylo. That's its modus operandi: Give a tremendous amount of power, and thus natural quick talent, to a young individual to fuck up the plans of the other side in a bid for balance. Because the only reason Anakin was so damn good at what he did is because the Force made him that way. He started training way too late and left way too early, and yet his natural talents aren't seen as "Gary Stu" tendencies since we know he went on to become one of the most talented Force users ever. We just accept that he's the Force Messiah like it's a totally normal thing and was not designed to be that. Same with Luke. We just accept Luke was a farmboy who was supernaturally talented at piloting, fighting, surviving, and the Force despite zero history to suggest it and is NOT a Gary Stu. But when Rey is somewhat similar, though she has a bit more to her history to suggest she might be familiar with at least some of these concepts? Mary Stu.

  11. #171
    Quote Originally Posted by Makenzye View Post
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    Except none of that really goes against the first six movies.

    Let's start with the Falcon: Rey was a junk dealer/mechanic who had prior knowledge of what was ailing the Falcon and fixed it based on that as she directly said, and considering the technology in the Falcon is centuries old and probably pretty well known and used it's not like she was asked to fix something outside of her wheelhouse. Let's keep in mind how Solo had zero clue what was fucking up the Falcon since it wasn't in the same configuration he last left it. So what does this mean? It might mean Rey actually had a clue of what was happening, where to find it (from a lifetime of having to find parts in machines to sell for food that day), and Solo walked into a situation blind. If Solo had fixed a foreign problem he didn't know the Falcon had because he "knew the Falcon so well," that would be a Gary Stu moment in a nutshell since it had new technology somewhere on the ship he didn't already know of. However, Solo does do a lot of mechanic work as he talked about modifying the Falcon himself. But that would only extend to what he already knows about the Falcon and not just whatever people put on the Falcon without him there.

    Combat: Rey was raised on a planet where physical tiffs were more than likely common and then faced off against a spattering of storm troopers that has traditionally been the laughing stock of all of fiction. Actually, now that I think of it, she really didn't fight any storm troopers. Whenever storm troopers were around she was scarce. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't recall her kicking through squads of stormtroopers anywhere in the first two films. At Maz's she was in the forest, on Starkiller she was sneaking around to escape, and on Snoke's ship she just surrendered. She either fought regular individuals, people who didn't want to kill her, disheartened combatants, or was just taken captive outright. Aside from that, we see from the get go she carries a weapon with her wherever she goes and commonly gets into arguments about finds with the other residents. That combined with the crushing economy a planet with no regulatory committee is a perfect place for fights to break out all the time in desperation. Especially if people are working for food on a daily basis. And sure we can say she is a Mary Sue for surviving all this time like that, but then we'd have to be ready to admit Han Solo, Luke Skywalker, C3P0, R2D2, and Princess Leia are Mary Stu/Gary Stu types for just surviving a galaxy full of storm troopers in their stronghold. Especially seeing as one was a smuggler who got into brushes with action but was a runner not a fighter, one was a farmer who lived a pretty conflict free life of mostly isolation, one was a protocol robot, one was a trashcan that seemingly can hack anything and the universe uses the only data access port the robot also uses, and one was a princess who for all purposes only served as a legislator and not a soldier. And said army was completely destroyed by what must be the Gary Stu army of Ewoks and what now has to be the galaxy's most Gary Stu side character Lando who can also pilot the Falcon better than Solo to destroy the second Death Star. And that's not even getting into Anakin.

    Training: We should really talk about how Rey more or less had a better understanding of what the Force even was at the beginning of her journey where Luke had nothing. He hadn't even heard of it back on his farm planet. Rey did have the benefit of needing to rely on her senses and physical capabilities a whole lot longer than Luke did by that point. Let's note this is in a series where people got on board the galaxy's most top secret super weapon, got around no problem, and escaped in a fiery dash into the sunset only to come back and do it again. And had a main character with near zero training go off to survive a fight with Darth Vader and be the best pilot the rebellion ever had. That's the first three movies.

    The first prequel movie had a literal small child fight off and successfully destroy a space fleet almost entirely by accident while being a racing ace. Then went on to become the most talented lightsaber combatant pretty much ever despite a very shortened Jedi training course. And all we know about this guy's training is it mostly consisted of him and Kenobi going around the galaxy on death-facing adventures near constantly. I dunno, maybe they spent the first six months knocking out the first 12 years of normal Jedi training.

    Honestly, we never really see Jedi train. When they do? It's really all about channeling or trusting the Force to guide them and to let go of the strains of their life to let the Force work with them. This is even reflected when Dark Side users are trying to empower people they're trying to corrupt. This is what gave a farmer with zero combat or piloting experience the ability to go on to become a galactic legend as a pilot, combatant, and spiritual leader. It also gave a slave who was "too old" for training go on to become one of the most powerful Force users to have ever existed, an accomplished pilot, and a top tier race driver. Note only one of those guys had "proper Jedi training." Sort of since I think he was missing about six years of training on the front end. The other had the universe's most accelerated Jedi training in a swamp with a demented Jedi master and most of that was spent whining about how he couldn't learn this stuff and had to go off and fight. And even then it wasn't that training that gave Luke the power to overcome anything, only to realize what the Force was capable of. It was his own realizations that set his power free. Hell, he got better "Jedi training" in the cockpit of his X-Wing when the ghost of Kenobi told Luke to trust his senses and let the Force tell him where to fire his torpedoes, so Luke could first hand understand what the Force did for him.

    The only middle finger given to anybody by anybody is the Force giving it to precious and previous Jedi before Luke by empowering him to meet the darkness of the galaxy as it's doing again for Rey and Kylo. That's its modus operandi: Give a tremendous amount of power, and thus natural quick talent, to a young individual to fuck up the plans of the other side in a bid for balance. Because the only reason Anakin was so damn good at what he did is because the Force made him that way. He started training way too late and left way too early, and yet his natural talents aren't seen as "Gary Stu" tendencies since we know he went on to become one of the most talented Force users ever. We just accept that he's the Force Messiah like it's a totally normal thing and was not designed to be that. Same with Luke. We just accept Luke was a farmboy who was supernaturally talented at piloting, fighting, surviving, and the Force despite zero history to suggest it and is NOT a Gary Stu. But when Rey is somewhat similar, though she has a bit more to her history to suggest she might be familiar with at least some of these concepts? Mary Stu.
    I mean I dont have as much of a problem with the falcon thing as I did with the other points. Just because you collect garbage on a planet your whole life doesnt make you a perfect mechanic to the point where she can fix a problem a guy that flew the ship for 30+ years didnt know the solution to in a matter of minutes. In the end this is just one of the many things that make her a Mary Sue imo. If she had just done that it wouldnt have bothered me that much.

    I never said that the prequels or the original trilogy had no flaws. I despise the ewoks and hated that part in Episode VI. That doesnt take away from Rey being able to shoot several stormtroopers without wielding a blaster her entire life and beating Kylo Ren in a lightsaber duel even though she also never held or fought with one of them either. We even saw Kylo fighting and easily overwhelming Finn before who should have more experience and skill than her by far. He was trained by the first order his whole life while Rey was collecting gargabe and maybe had a scuffle here and there with some thugs.

    She had no understanding of it. The only thing that happened was Han Solo confirming that the legends about the Jedi and the force are real. She didnt even meet a Jedi who could actually tell her about it in detail. She and Luke basically started out the same with the difference that Luke had Obi Wan tell him about it and actually give him a little insight. He even had him training with that little blaster and helmet that they also used in the prequels. Yet Luke couldnt use the force in the first movie at all. He actually did train with Yoda before he faced Vader. But he got rekt in the end and lost an arm. In the last movie he was already a full fleshed Jedi and finished his training under Yoda before he was heading to Tatooine. Rey did everything she did without any sort of training whatsoever.

    Sure how Anakin won the battle for Naboo in the first movie was bad I dont deny that. Massive PIS. But he actually did train with Obi Wan for years afterwards. It was off paneled since we had a timeskip between episodes I and II. But he was obviously trained in the Jedi temple like the younglings we saw in the other movies.

    Luke and Anakin both had years of training under great masters. Thats why we accept it. These two were the greatest prodigies ever yet had to train in order to achieve anything. Even though Anakin was hyped up to have the greatest potential ever while Luke was confirmed by George Lucas to be the greates Jedi that ever existed. It didnt just come to them. Anakin was actually already in Ep III on the lvl of a master he just hadnt taken his exam yet. While Luke did finish it under Yoda.

    Rey has nothing of this.
    -she doesnt recieve a single bit of training to use the force just gets confirmation that it exists
    -she doesnt get any proper training with a lightsaber

    Yet she outperforms any Jedi we have ever seen in that short timespan. Neither Luke nor Anakin could do that much after knowing they can use the force after a week and they have way more hype going for them. I just dont see how that makes any sense. Thats like having Luke fight Vader in Episode IV and actually make him struggle.


  12. #172
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoyalIce View Post
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    I mean I dont have as much of a problem with the falcon thing as I did with the other points. Just because you collect garbage on a planet your whole life doesnt make you a perfect mechanic to the point where she can fix a problem a guy that flew the ship for 30+ years didnt know the solution to in a matter of minutes. In the end this is just one of the many things that make her a Mary Sue imo. If she had just done that it wouldnt have bothered me that much.

    I never said that the prequels or the original trilogy had no flaws. I despise the ewoks and hated that part in Episode VI. That doesnt take away from Rey being able to shoot several stormtroopers without wielding a blaster her entire life and beating Kylo Ren in a lightsaber duel even though she also never held or fought with one of them either. We even saw Kylo fighting and easily overwhelming Finn before who should have more experience and skill than her by far. He was trained by the first order his whole life while Rey was collecting gargabe and maybe had a scuffle here and there with some thugs.

    She had no understanding of it. The only thing that happened was Han Solo confirming that the legends about the Jedi and the force are real. She didnt even meet a Jedi who could actually tell her about it in detail. She and Luke basically started out the same with the difference that Luke had Obi Wan tell him about it and actually give him a little insight. He even had him training with that little blaster and helmet that they also used in the prequels. Yet Luke couldnt use the force in the first movie at all. He actually did train with Yoda before he faced Vader. But he got rekt in the end and lost an arm. In the last movie he was already a full fleshed Jedi and finished his training under Yoda before he was heading to Tatooine. Rey did everything she did without any sort of training whatsoever.

    Sure how Anakin won the battle for Naboo in the first movie was bad I dont deny that. Massive PIS. But he actually did train with Obi Wan for years afterwards. It was off paneled since we had a timeskip between episodes I and II. But he was obviously trained in the Jedi temple like the younglings we saw in the other movies.

    Luke and Anakin both had years of training under great masters. Thats why we accept it. These two were the greatest prodigies ever yet had to train in order to achieve anything. Even though Anakin was hyped up to have the greatest potential ever while Luke was confirmed by George Lucas to be the greates Jedi that ever existed. It didnt just come to them. Anakin was actually already in Ep III on the lvl of a master he just hadnt taken his exam yet. While Luke did finish it under Yoda.

    Rey has nothing of this.
    -she doesnt recieve a single bit of training to use the force just gets confirmation that it exists
    -she doesnt get any proper training with a lightsaber

    Yet she outperforms any Jedi we have ever seen in that short timespan. Neither Luke nor Anakin could do that much after knowing they can use the force after a week and they have way more hype going for them. I just dont see how that makes any sense. Thats like having Luke fight Vader in Episode IV and actually make him struggle.
    As a person who has crawled through junkyards and worked on cars his whole life? I can tell you ripping apart cars can tell you a lot about what might be happening to those cars when things go wrong. Hell, going to a junk yard can tell you problems your car is eventually going to have. Especially when it's your job to pull apart and repair cars and you have foreknowledge on just what has been done to a car. If I know, for a fact, that a car has a super charger on it that shouldn't have one and it's shaking around like crazy? I can tell you it's probably the supercharger belt. If someone handed me back my truck after fifteen years of not having been inside of it and it started shaking and NOBODY told me my truck had a supercharger? I'd probably be wondering a list of things that might be going wrong with the truck and I'd probably have 15 guesses as to why including bad pistons, disjointed transmission, exhaust not being bolted on correctly, low oil, failing motor mounts, bad U joints, timing malfunction, vacuum leak, and even just bad gas. And I definitely wouldn't zero in on an issue if my truck was about to explode. The one thing I wouldn't suspect is the supercharger I either didn't know was in it, or the super charger I wouldn't be thinking about since it's the newest addition to the truck, I've only heard about in passing, I just sat in for fifteen seconds after fifteen years since I'd have no clue what sort of changes that would be making to my truck, how to address it, or even how to stop it without just shutting off the engine. A huge part of working on a vehicle, any vehicle, is the experiences of tearing down other vehicles for parts. That is a huge part of learning how machines work, what to anticipate, and how to repair them. The more you're around it, the better you are at it. Ask any mechanic where they learned the most about repairing a vehicle and they will tell you it was in dismantling vehicles.

    The problem with saying, "I never said those movies had no flaws," is in the problem when you said, "This flies in the face of the previous six films," which indeed did engage in these problems throughout each and every film and sometimes hinged entirely on these things happening. You can say how much you hated certain aspects of those films, but it doesn't erase what they did or what they were, nor can you divorce them from the rest of what happened in those films entirely to make the Star Wars you wanted. We have to remember that Luke and Leia were both blasting Stormtroopers that couldn't hit the broadside of a barn at seven yards with zero problem, but have a problem with Rey firing a blaster a few times and hitting a stormtrooper. Also, I really don't remember when Rey actually fought storm troopers. Was it on Starkiller base where a group of Stormtroopers would actually constitute something larger than the side of a barn and it's statistically impossible to miss a stormtrooper? Talking about Kylo, I think we forget the entire two fights he had just immediately prior to Rey. Let's start with how he ate a blaster bolt that was previously shown to pretty much turn an armored storm trooper to mulch. We saw when Kylo showed up he was hurt, and badly, doing his best to try and keep his body up and sharpen his senses while dealing with blood loss. Then Kylo had to engage in a fight with Finn alone because, as we tend to forget, Kylo bashed Rey against a tree and knocked her out cold. Also I guess Finn isn't a Gary Stu because despite not having the Force, wielded a lightsaber despite never having specific lightsaber training which is the hallmark of a Stu character, but was able to hold his own with an injured and unimpressed Kylo? Finally, and most importantly, Kylo wasn't trying to kill Rey and was intent on showing her what power he could teach her, all while Rey was fighting for her life, and all while Kylo's powers were diminished because of his internal conflict he had just gone through. That's not exactly a slam dunk victory for Rey showing she's the truth and the light and the most powerful warrior ever to exist to wield a laser sword. That's the opposite. She barely got out of that fight because a base blew up and the ground dramatically split the two combatants and she needed to escape with Finn.

    Rey actually did have a little understanding of the Force. While wrong in its nature she had some semblance of what it might and could do. Not only from the legends she heard of about Luke Skywalker, but by seeing it first hand from Kylo Ren who just got done showing her some of the things that could be done such as moving things, mind hammering, and data extraction. And probably from when she tore into Kylo's mind and god knows what hints she might have picked up there. Or, you know, the Force just sort of urged her on like it does for everybody when it needs them to be capable of something they previously weren't before. Just like Luke, Kylo, Anakin, and Qui-Gon before her. What did Luke have? Nothing. He had no blipping clue what the Force was until he was forced on his adventure with Kenobi. And for a long time he still didn't understand much about it until it was magically endowed upon him by the Force itself when he learned to let go and feel his instincts. Something Rey was already doing on her own, but with the added benefit that she was trying to use her instincts to channel the Force she thought she might have where anytime Luke was shown to use it, he was doing it as an extension of his will.

    For combat, we are completely discounting how combat training works. Rey is no master of the lightsaber, but having a history of combat really -really- helps when you need to learn something new or pick something up. Especially if you already understand the basics behind it. Unless we are going to say all Rey ever did was pick up the staff, instantly mastered it, and that's all her brain can compute and she'd never even seen much less heard of a weapon like a lightsaber before, there's a good chance she has at least a basic understanding of combat with a weapon not a staff. The same way we remember Luke had literally no combat experience at all, spent beyond less than a year learning how to kind of use one, and then went on to fight Darth Vader twice and win one of those. Something Rey has yet to accomplish since she hasn't really won any fight that wasn't also an attempt to not hurt her. I'm also not sure why you think Luke had years under any master, unless you think he spent years tooling around on the Falcon under Kenobi and then Han and co. spent years on Cloud City while Luke got training on Dagobah. Luke had very little in the way of training with a lightsaber or the Force, and what training he did show he wasn't exceptional at. Though, in an interesting point, he got really good really fast by trusting his instincts and was able to master the targeting bot Jedi children were expected to be good with. Keep in mind it was really his first real outing with that saber. GARY STU!! But man did he get good when it came to him NEEDING any of that skill when it came to Force application or lightsaber skills. DOUBLE GARY STU!! Though, I guess since his name isn't Rey it's not a bad thing? I'm just not sure why when every other character has shown extremely similar growth Rey gets the "bad label."

    As for Anakin, he had significantly less training than ANY Jedi his age and was able to compete with Jedi masters, and by that time he had a history of doing that. I don't know, maybe he just had all this natural ability all along in him but that's okay because he's not Rey? Oh, maybe it's because the Force wanted him that way and he's the chosen one? Which somehow isn't a good reason for Rey to have any good capabilities of her own?

  13. #173
    Saw the movie yesterday, it's entertaining as a movie but bad as a SW movie.

    I wasnt even gonna post but geez, all the crying about "super rey" makes ZERO sense. Mak saved this thread.

    She got all clumsy with the blaster and then shot TWO stormtroopers in the FA, but somehow it turned to "she is super skilled with the weapon out of nowhere and killed several stormtroopers!!!!!!"

  14. #174
    Not Gay Gay's Avatar
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    I dislike that stormtroopers fight like untrained children.

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    Red Hero Rax's Avatar
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  16. #176
    Red Hero Rax's Avatar
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  17. #177
    Red Hero Rax's Avatar
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    Solo flopped


    Great Job Kathleen Kennedy, you dumb twat.



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  18. #178
    The Dragon of Katsurahama Nordlending's Avatar
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    It was fun. I liked it.


    The real world is cold! The real world doesn't care about spirit! You want to be a hero? Then play the part and die like every other Huntsman in history! As for me, I'll do what I do best: lie, steal, cheat and survive!

  19. #179
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    It bombed in theaters

    It only made 85M for a star wars movie on a 4 day weekend



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  20. #180
    See you in the desert... Makenzye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nordlending View Post
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    It was fun. I liked it.
    Heard it was a bit bland. Is it worth seeing in theaters right away, or can it wait for a discount theater?

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