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Thread: "4HK level"

  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Cichy View Post
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    I know Qin is overpowered, but let's not go that far.
    This comparison is actually generous to Rimjob until he gets better feats

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenma View Post
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    This comparison is actually generous to Rimjob until he gets better feats
    After this arc ends I'll probably make a thread about Riboku's feats so far

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by Cichy View Post
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    After this arc ends I'll probably make a thread about Riboku's feats so far
    I have always held the feeling Riboku is an incredible strategist but merely a good general (like SHK). This makes him the biggest threat to Qin in the grand scheme of things but on the field...he's about to be punked by Ousen despite a whole slew of advantages.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenma View Post
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    I have always held the feeling Riboku is an incredible strategist but merely a good general (like SHK). This makes him the biggest threat to Qin in the grand scheme of things but on the field...he's about to be punked by Ousen despite a whole slew of advantages.
    It's still unknown how Hara is about to end this arc and what else Riboku can show on the field (it was hinted that he still has something in his sleeve), that's why I prefer to wait untill it's conclusion.

    So far things would look really bad for Ousen if not Mouten saving the situation that was almost impossible to save.

















  5. #25
    Dai Don Dedede's Avatar
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    It's not gonna be very original but:

    -Mouten, he's had the strategical acumen for some time, now he also has the vision and the ability to rally soldiers who are not part of his unit into a coherent fighting force
    -Ouhon, a bit below Mouten in strategical ability and for now hasn't shown that he could very efficiently unite people who are not already loyal to him or his family but if he's still charismatic enough to get people to obey him if he gets appointed as general imo and he also has his substantial martial might to help

    -Possibly Rokuomi and Ryuukoku who seem to have kept on improving since the beginning of the series but for now I'd till peg them slightly below, can't see them fighting evenly against Rinko or Kyouen

    -Rinbukun, I feel he's close to Kaishibou overall, less destructive charge but better duelist.

    -Kisui, he isn't flashy but he seems to be able to lead efficiently and was able to rally the Zhao soldiers so he can lead people outside of Rigan troops.
    -Bananji and Shunsuiju seem to be around that level too, Riboku's true deputies should be around the previous great heavens' level

    -Ordo, I feel he should be higher but frankly he hasn't shown anything that impressive. He apparently has good leadership and is pretty strong himself, but doesn't seem to be very intelligent. I could see him getting stalemated by Kyouen if he was in Ousen's place at Sanyou.

  6. #26
    Cheif of Wisdom Amol's Avatar
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    SHK?
    Or he would be too powerful?

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Amol View Post
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    SHK?
    Or he would be too powerful?
    He was hyped as great general level.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Cichy View Post
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    It's still unknown how Hara is about to end this arc and what else Riboku can show on the field (it was hinted that he still has something in his sleeve), that's why I prefer to wait untill it's conclusion.

    So far things would look really bad for Ousen if not Mouten saving the situation that was almost impossible to save.
















    Well, Ousen placed Shin and Mouten to the left wing while giving them commanding authority, that they managed to salvage the situation is partly because Ousen excessively reinforced the left wing so that taking down a single commander would not mean its collapse and his analysis of Mouten's and Shin's capabilities.

    Ousen is operating with way less men than Riboku, is in territory designed by Riboku himself, has limited supplies, and this entire mission was commissioned with a low chance of success to begin with. If he beats Riboku here, he's better than him, period.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenma View Post
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    Well, Ousen placed Shin and Mouten to the left wing while giving them commanding authority, that they managed to salvage the situation is partly because Ousen excessively reinforced the left wing so that taking down a single commander would not mean its collapse and his analysis of Mouten's and Shin's capabilities.
    Ousen send them there in a specific purpose - for Mouten to be the bait and for Shin to kill Kisui. The commander of left wing in the first day was Makou. Ousen's reactions to Mouten's feats clearly indicate that he didn't predicted Makou's death or Mouten's doing as much as he did.

    Quote Originally Posted by Tenma View Post
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    If he beats Riboku here, he's better than him, period.
    You mean win the battle as it is now and without any outside help? Yeah, probably. But I don't think that's gonna be the case.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by Cichy View Post
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    Ousen send them there in a specific purpose - for Mouten to be the bait and for Shin to kill Kisui. The commander of left wing in the first day was Makou. Ousen's reactions to Mouten's feats clearly indicate that he didn't predicted Makou's death or Mouten's doing as much as he did.


    You mean win the battle as it is now and without any outside help? Yeah, probably. But I don't think that's gonna be the case.
    Of course Ousen didn't plan for Makou to die and in any war there will be some setbacks even the most prescient commander cannot completely see coming. But it's telling that it was only because Ousen deployed both Mouten and Shin that the left wing was saved, and the chapter before they even talk about how Ousen's tactics have countless layers and that they can evolve to suit any situation- in this case, even the worst one.

    Ousen didn't really react to it, Kanjou and Kyuukou expected Ousen to be upset/shocked but then Ouhon told them that wasn't going to be the case.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenma View Post
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    But it's telling that it was only because Ousen deployed both Mouten and Shin that the left wing was saved, and the chapter before they even talk about how Ousen's tactics have countless layers and that they can evolve to suit any situation- in this case, even the worst one.
    It's still a bit stretched. Sending Mouten and Shin to the left was obviously a good decision, but Mouten wen't far beyond of what Ousen expected.

    I also don't see what was the purpose of his desicion to keep Gyoku Hou in the back. If Ouhon did follow the plan then in worst scenario Akou would be dead and in best he would take massive casualties.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenma View Post
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    Ousen didn't really react to it, Kanjou and Kyuukou expected Ousen to be upset/shocked but then Ouhon told them that wasn't going to be the case.
    Yeah, but Ousen is generally not the guy that shows emotions. For him, his subordinates are only pawns on the board, so it's not surprising that he wasn't too emotional about Makou's death. Still, loosing his left hand man and around half of his best army was a blow to his forces. It was hinted that Ousen has more generals in the center, but probably not of the same quality.
    Last edited by Cichy; 11-27-2017 at 09:51 PM.

  12. #32
    I'm in the side that Ousen surviving the first day is less of his feats and more of Mouten being above of Ousen (and pretty much everyone else)'s expectations

    Looking from first day only, giving Ousen in the same tier to Riboku is already being generous. We still don't know how Hara will ended this war though...

  13. #33
    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
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    I'm in the side that Ousen surviving the first day is less of his feats and more of Mouten being above of Ousen (and pretty much everyone else)'s expectations

    Looking from first day only, giving Ousen in the same tier to Riboku is already being generous. We still don't know how Hara will ended this war though...
    Same can be said to the right flank because of Ouhon's brilliance. The grand scheme here is the CIC decision and his commander's appointment for each battlefield are the real reason for army result. RBK has numerical and terrain advantages over Ousen and because of that he has the luxury to make a bold move and caught Qin unguarded with his movement while Ousen doesn't have the same thing and managing it with a limited resources from the start. Ousen is still ahead of RBK because of locust plan at this point.

  14. #34
    I wouldn't say Chougaryu/Gyou'un are definitely = to the 4HK. I mean, they probably are, but the hype was just that they were of parallel rank, i.e underlings of a GH, rather than a direct "he is as strong as Rinko" quote.

  15. #35
    I doubt Chougaryu is a Genbou level strategist and his tactics are his only notable quality...so no he's no HK levsl. Ryuukoku/Fuuki level seems more likely.

  16. #36
    To be fair, Genbou was specialist in only tactics. Chougaryuu on the other hand looks like more well rounded commander.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    I wouldn't say Chougaryu/Gyou'un are definitely = to the 4HK. I mean, they probably are, but the hype was just that they were of parallel rank, i.e underlings of a GH, rather than a direct "he is as strong as Rinko" quote.
    I think that too.


    About the first day I see as Riboku > Ousen by a thin margin

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