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  1. #41
    Everyone is calling this an ass pull/worse than Fairy tail yet water 7 and enies loby is praised out the ass here despite it having Luffy power up imediatly after getting his ass kicked, bunch of hypocrites

    This is honestly the exact same shit we've seen time and time again but instead of just seeing it we get it explained.

  2. #42
    Sword of the Morning Dellinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dayum View Post
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    Yeah exactly. This is all development we could have gotten in earlier arcs. Just no reason for Luffy to be learning on the job against a Yonkou crew.
    Why not ?


    Going to be PK barely facing anybody. Barely exploring the NW. Why even tell us abut the Silver Medalists, the numerous CotC users DCJ talked about, Allied crews(BM basically has none), and the level 6 inmates on top of rivals like the SN, Smoker, and Coby. All stepping stones all made irrelevant instead.
    I agree with this but Oda isn't 20 years old. He is 43 with 20 years on this fucking tiresome job.

    Nobody matters now. Why even get hype for any Samurai, Giant, new commanders, or even Teach's crew and the other SN. Drake, Apoo, Killer, and even Kidd are going to treated like Smoker.
    Why wouldn't guys that are gonna be parts of very important arcs not matter ? Did Capone not matter ? Did Pedro not matter ?





  3. #43
    Red Hero Rax's Avatar
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    Oda shoulda just made G5

    Jesus Christo...



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  4. #44
    Omg...

    It would be sweeettt if he actually started using those trance-like maneuvers I'd been talking about.

    It's not like he needs to predict very far to be able to barely manage getting away.

    Though, I said he could maybe do something like... a new G4 Mode based on Dodging rather than Blocking. The Rokushiki users made a point about Dodging being an entirely different skill when they talked about Paper Drawing.

    Ohhh I'd love Paper Drawing: Rubber. But, I doubt it's gonna happen. But, if it did! It might be cool.

    ---

    To put that into context.. it'd be like having a split moment to dodge just before being struck while utilizing the shape of rubber to change form in accordance with where the attacks will be. Very similar to how Katakuri himself utilized his own Devil Fruit to escape Luffy's attacks.

    Though, he may need to close his eyes in order to do it. That's because it's the same way Rayleigh taught him to strain his senses. So, it might be easier for him to incorporate it that way.

    ---

    Strength Mochi is outperforming the Kong Gun. Not the King Kong Gun-- if it's even something he can deliver successfully at this point. But, the Kong Gun and how it's being delivered is being counteracted by how well Katakuri is delivering the Strength Mochi-- which he can make appear damn near anywhere.

    Luffy had overcome the strong Armament Defence [Blocks]. At least, that's what I'd considered them. But, after Katakuri put out the Flowing Strength Mochi's it became too difficult for Luffy to continue moving. He was also reminded of the short time period he has while in that form.

    Considering that... it would seem Luffy needs to do 1 of 2 things. Alternatively, there's some other things. But, these 2 seem like good options.

    1. Luffy continues using Bound Man. By bolstering his Observation Haki he becomes more capable of delivering blows in Bound Man form. However, I believe there is a problem with that because of the nature of the energy associated to that form-- it may be of an aggressive nature that leaves Luffy unable to focus the way he needs to in order to activate Observation Haki at all (big speculation). Reliance on Kong Gun or the King Kong Gun as his finisher.

    2. Luffy, after bolstering Observation Haki, utilizes Dodge as a new skill. In order to implement it, he will take on a Beast Form. He does this because Bound Man is not compatible with Observation Haki and the time limit seems like a risk. So, instead, he may emphasize speed and dodge to deliver and evade blows.
    Last edited by Mcguint; 11-22-2017 at 05:13 PM.

  5. #45
    Red Hero Rax's Avatar
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    Luffy should just focus on Power and just nuke the area



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  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by Albion View Post
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    I don't follow.
    You're bringing up the Cracker and Doffy fights as they happened. What people are saying is that Oda could have introduced this and other plot points earlier by crafting scenarios for them. Observation haki period is a mostly neglected ability because Oda would have wrote a very different version of Part 2 if he always accounted for it.

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Dayum View Post
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    You're bringing up the Cracker and Doffy fights as they happened. What people are saying is that Oda could have introduced this and other plot points earlier by crafting scenarios for them. Observation haki period is a mostly neglected ability because Oda would have wrote a very different version of Part 2 if he always accounted for it.
    I didn't disagree with that.

    I'm just saying it's not an asspull.

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellinger View Post
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    Why not ?
    The same reason you don't try to beat Floyd Mayweather in a boxing match when you're still on your rise. You have to have a certain level of skill and ability stepping into a ring with a true champion level fighter. You learn and develop before you face the Champ, not during the fight.

    Instead of the BM pirates being portrayed as a champion level crew (meaning they are well balanced and competent at all levels) plot contrivances make them look underwhelming. Plot shields and luck save our protagonists over and over again. Different forms of every color of Haki should have been explored through facing different characters and developed on their way to the Yonkou so by the time they faced Yonkou Commanders we were familiar with them and the SH refined their own use and counter measures against them.

    I agree with this but Oda isn't 20 years old. He is 43 with 20 years on this fucking tiresome job.
    Then he could spend less time with useless hype pages like Bobbin being a demon, Senor Pink's backstory, introduce that vacuum girl and named dwarves who don't add to the story, write two speeches, and constant running. It takes a long time to illustrate draft and illustrate a page and yet he is not very selective with his own time and page space.

    Why wouldn't guys that are gonna be parts of very important arcs not matter ? Did Capone not matter ? Did Pedro not matter ?
    Same way most of the BM pirates including Smoothie have not mattered. Same way Law's contributions to the Doffy fight were made irrelevant. Same way poor Cav got to do nothing and the Seats got shitted on. Same way Burgess shows up to serve no real purpose other than somehow sneak onto a ship unnoticed and undetected so the BB pirates could invade. Same way Koala didn't do anything. Same way most of the gladiators besides Bart and Sai really. Same way Smoker was quickly shown to not be a true rival for Luffy anymore. Same way Pekoms hasn't done much. Same way poor Robin only got to babysit. Same way Buffalo was just tossed out a window and never seen again. Jora almost same thing. Del didn't really serve any big purpose, he was not some important obstacle to overcome. Tashigi also shitted on. Hyozo was mentioned way back but didn't turn out to be anything but a distraction for Zoro. Kinemon stood around all post BC.

    Pedro death didn't accomplish anything except injure another character who will not do anything terribly relevant to the overarching plot. He also blew himself up before he even really established a reason for us to feel his loss. His one fight was cut short. Capone is 1 character getting some decent spotlight but Oda could ruin that quick and he is no true rival of Luffy.

    What do you think I even mean when I say they don't matter? Everyone I mentioned could end up turning into jobbers like Maynard&Bastille or just stand around like Compote&Smoothie or do something off panel that doesn't really effect much like Brulee capturing Carrot. Or they can turn into failures who need Luffy and Zoro to save them or serve as a quickly forgotten obstacles like Hyozo, both dragons, Saldeath, and Sadie.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dellinger View Post
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    I mean this is also a case of some guys here being really weird and as Albion said bitching for the sake of bitching. EL happened, people were praising it like fuck. Luffy went from getting fodderize by Croc, to beating him in the same arc yet guys always praise it.
    Wow, really? The only reason he was "fodderized" agaisnt Croc is because he could not touch him. Round 2 went a lot better for him when he could and it even ended with plot shield in Croc's favor as Luffy just stood there and watched him drain everything. He did not get stronger between those 3 fights. The playing field just evened out.
    Last edited by Dayum; 11-22-2017 at 06:25 PM.

  9. #49
    WORST MANIPULATOR Acno's Avatar
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    Random Powerups

    Ok in One Piece

    Shit in other Manga´s

    Nice doublestandart

  10. #50
    this development is fine for me, don't see what the fuss is about. there's a difference between knowing and applying. luffy understood what rayleigh was talking about but he didn't know how to properly apply it, not until he met someone with a haki so advanced that he could see into the future. how do you apply something without knowing the exact mechanics of advanced haki? doflamingo and cracker didn't have another level to their haki he could learn and adapt from.

    the outcome should've been twofold from the start: luffy loses and learns something (awakening or advanced haki) or luffy loses and learns nothing. the former is the better option of the two but it seems like oda is seriously considering a third option - beating katakuri, arguably the worst outcome of the fight. he has no business beating someone with years of haki training and superiority on all fronts. katakuri is the only salvageable character in this arc so oda should let him live at the very least.

    just take the knowledge of how to see into the future and sail the sea already, no point in trying it against katakuri. he could try it against a bottom feeder at wano or something below katakuri's power level.
    Last edited by Loki; 11-22-2017 at 06:56 PM.

  11. #51
    Sword of the Morning Dellinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dayum View Post
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    The same reason you don't try to beat Floyd Mayweather in a boxing match when you're still on your rise. You have to have a certain level of skill and ability stepping into a ring with a true champion level fighter. You learn and develop before you face the Champ, not during the fight.

    Instead of the BM pirates being portrayed as a champion level crew (meaning they are well balanced and competent at all levels) plot contrivances make them look underwhelming. Plot shields and luck save our protagonists over and over again. Different forms of every color of Haki should have been explored through facing different characters and developed on their way to the Yonkou so by the time they faced Yonkou Commanders we were familiar with them and the SH refined their own use and counter measures against them.
    Ok why would all of the BM pirates be portrayed as a champion level as you imply in the first part of your post ? The WB's weren't. Look at Ace, look at any WB member aside from Marco, Jozu and Vista. Look at Jack and the guys he got backing him up. Different forms of Haki are being explored right now. CoO is the focus in the main fight of the arc, we might have gotten something on CoA if we take some translations as correct. Still need the viz translation.



    Then he could spend less time with useless hype pages like Bobbin being a demon, Senor Pink's backstory, introduce that vacuum girl and named dwarves who don't add to the story, write two speeches, and constant running. It takes a long time to illustrate draft and illustrate a page and yet he is not very selective with his own time and page space.
    What ? Bobbin was never a demon. Bobbin was singing about Big Mom. I mean you still speak of the hype page about Bobbin because we saw him speaking to Big Mom and being together with the other BM members. Agree with everything you said but a couple of pages, and some few chapters can't cover all the things you mentioned.



    Same way most of the BM pirates including Smoothie have not mattered. Same way Law's contributions to the Doffy fight were made irrelevant. Same way poor Cav got to do nothing and the Seats got shitted on. Same way Burgess shows up to serve no real purpose other than somehow sneak onto a ship unnoticed and undetected so the BB pirates could invade. Same way Koala didn't do anything. Same way most of the gladiators besides Bart and Sai really. Same way Smoker was quickly shown to not be a true rival for Luffy anymore. Same way Pekoms hasn't done much. Same way poor Robin only got to babysit. Same way Buffalo was just tossed out a window and never seen again. Jora almost same thing. Del didn't really serve any big purpose, he was not some important obstacle to overcome. Tashigi also shitted on. Hyozo was mentioned way back but didn't turn out to be anything but a distraction for Zoro. Kinemon stood around all post BC.
    Agreed with Smoothie and that's horrible. We are talking about a Yonko's second strongest fighter. Law's contributions weren't really made irrelevant and he was also one of the highlights of the the whole Doflamingo saga. Cav was established, developed and highlighted multiple times. He did things. Seats got shitted on indeed. Burgess purpose was to introduce the BB pirates and do what he did so how did he not serve a real purpose ? All of the gladiotors helped defeat the DQ family so they indeed accomplished something. Luffy never had an obsession with Smoker so I see no true rivalry. Buffalo got a full fledged fight in PH. What were you expecting Tashigi to do ?

    Pedro death didn't accomplish anything except injure another character who will not do anything terribly relevant to the overarching plot. He also blew himself up before he even really established a reason for us to feel his loss. His one fight was cut short. Capone is 1 character getting some decent spotlight but Oda could ruin that quick and he is no true rival of Luffy.
    Pedro's death saved them from Big Mom obliterating them so it didn't accomplish anything ? Are you serious ?

    What do you think I even mean when I say they don't matter? Everyone I mentioned could end up turning into jobbers like Maynard&Bastille or just stand around like Compote&Smoothie or do something off panel that doesn't really effect much like Brulee capturing Carrot. Or they can turn into failures who need Luffy and Zoro to save them or serve as a quickly forgotten obstacles like Hyozo, both dragons, Saldeath, and Sadie.
    While your post has some good points, what it also clearly shows is that you simply don't like stuff because they didn't develop according to your liking.




    Wow, really? The only reason he was "fodderized" agaisnt Croc is because he could not touch him. Round 2 went a lot better for him when he could and it even ended with plot shield in Croc's favor as Luffy just stood there and watched him drain everything. He did not get stronger between those 3 fights. The playing field just evened out.
    You mean Luffy wasn't saved by plot shield ? Also the only reason Katakuri is beating him like that is because Luffy also can't touch him. They are somewhat similar. Cracker was also saved by PIS but you always say that Cracker was stronger and yada yada.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 120 View Post
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    Random Powerups

    Ok in One Piece

    Shit in other Manga´s

    Nice doublestandart
    If you were reading the series you wouldn't spout this crap





  12. #52
    Some people think it's fine, and others think it's whack, myself included. Let's just leave it at that. Obvious at this point that no one has any intention of changing their opinion on the matter

  13. #53
    Mr. Tambourine Man Rasendori's Avatar
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    Wow...

    I'm glad Oda made a pre skip and post skip. I can safely say pre-skip is an innovative piece of work that rivals some of the best fiction of all time.

    Part 2 is thrash if we're just going to ignore all logic for the sake of finishing the story. At least DBZ made a proper switch from Adventure/action to complete action. For better or worse the series evolved. One Piece is going from Adventure/action to shitty Adventure/action. complete regression.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DUDE View Post
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    Everyone is calling this an ass pull/worse than Fairy tail yet water 7 and enies loby is praised out the ass here despite it having Luffy power up imediatly after getting his ass kicked, bunch of hypocrites

    This is honestly the exact same shit we've seen time and time again but instead of just seeing it we get it explained.
    It took years for Luffy to get a power up that felt earned. Gear 2 was innovative and a power up that seemed logical and consistent with Oda's "how can i find creative and fun ways to power up a rubber man." This is not creative or fun it's lazy and reminiscent of every one of Natsu's bullshit power ups.

    Kudos to people who still defend this series. It took until right after the mink arc (which I still think is preskip in quality) to admit this series is and has been taking a nosedive. Oda still has it in him to make a decent arc - so when you see a shitty one you call it what it is. There is a double standard here, and for all intents and purposes, it was earned because part 1 is a masterpiece.
    http://img818.imageshack.us/img818/5096/frankysig.jpg

  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Rasendori View Post
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    Wow...

    I'm glad Oda made a pre skip and post skip. I can safely say pre-skip is an innovative piece of work that rivals some of the best fiction of all time.

    Part 2 is thrash if we're just going to ignore all logic for the sake of finishing the story. At least DBZ made a proper switch from Adventure/action to complete action. For better or worse the series evolved. One Piece is going from Adventure/action to shitty Adventure/action. complete regression.
    At least Monster will always be there, aka the best written manga of all time

  15. #55
    J.Caesar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dayum View Post
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    You're bringing up the Cracker and Doffy fights as they happened. What people are saying is that Oda could have introduced this and other plot points earlier by crafting scenarios for them. Observation haki period is a mostly neglected ability because Oda would have wrote a very different version of Part 2 if he always accounted for it.
    Lmao, you keep bringing this observation Haki thing up, I cannot believe anyone would actually believe a series can have a plot with such a thing fully accounted for all the time as you claim. I mean we are talking about an ability that allows anyone to sense anything that is happening or about to happen over a large area at all times. The simple truth is that no such plot device can be fully relevant/maintained in any long running Shonen series. It's better for you to just accept that.

  16. #56
    WORST MANIPULATOR Acno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dellinger View Post
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    Ok why would all of the BM pirates be portrayed as a champion level as you imply in the first part of your post ? The WB's weren't. Look at Ace, look at any WB member aside from Marco, Jozu and Vista. Look at Jack and the guys he got backing him up. Different forms of Haki are being explored right now. CoO is the focus in the main fight of the arc, we might have gotten something on CoA if we take some translations as correct. Still need the viz translation.




    What ? Bobbin was never a demon. Bobbin was singing about Big Mom. I mean you still speak of the hype page about Bobbin because we saw him speaking to Big Mom and being together with the other BM members. Agree with everything you said but a couple of pages, and some few chapters can't cover all the things you mentioned.





    Agreed with Smoothie and that's horrible. We are talking about a Yonko's second strongest fighter. Law's contributions weren't really made irrelevant and he was also one of the highlights of the the whole Doflamingo saga. Cav was established, developed and highlighted multiple times. He did things. Seats got shitted on indeed. Burgess purpose was to introduce the BB pirates and do what he did so how did he not serve a real purpose ? All of the gladiotors helped defeat the DQ family so they indeed accomplished something. Luffy never had an obsession with Smoker so I see no true rivalry. Buffalo got a full fledged fight in PH. What were you expecting Tashigi to do ?



    Pedro's death saved them from Big Mom obliterating them so it didn't accomplish anything ? Are you serious ?



    While your post has some good points, what it also clearly shows is that you simply don't like stuff because they didn't develop according to your liking.






    You mean Luffy wasn't saved by plot shield ? Also the only reason Katakuri is beating him like that is because Luffy also can't touch him. They are somewhat similar. Cracker was also saved by PIS but you always say that Cracker was stronger and yada yada.

    - - - Updated - - -




    If you were reading the series you wouldn't spout this crap
    I read the series...

    That is also the reason why i can criticize One Piece

  17. #57
    Minister of Negerkuss Charlotte Dingleberry's Avatar
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    How are there three pages of hate when the chapter isn't even out yet.

    That's like criticizing a movie based on a summary.

    Kaido
    Akainu - Blackbeard
    Mihawk - Dragon - Shanks -
    Big Mom - Kuzan
    Kizaru - Fujitora - Ryokugyu - Rayleigh - Garp - Kong - Sengoku
    Weevil - Benn Beckman - Katakuri - Marco - King - Shiryuu - Snakeman



  18. #58
    This haki powerup wtf..

    .. Is this the same manga?

    EDIT: I do have to say though

    This is the kind of asspull DBZ gets away with on a consistent basis. OP does get unnecessarily shit on, that or others get too many passes

  19. #59
    I would say let's just wait for the chapter, but these were pretty expository spoilers :/ I wish Luffy just unlocked Awakening or something earlier on in the fight.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlotte Pedospedo View Post
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    How are there three pages of hate when the chapter isn't even out yet.

    That's like criticizing a movie based on a summary.

    Because the only focus is on Luffy's supposed power-up.
    http://www.millenniumforums.com/signaturepics/sigpic12330_1.gif

  20. #60
    WORST MANIPULATOR Acno's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zu View Post
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    I would say let's just wait for the chapter, but these were pretty expository spoilers :/ I wish Luffy just unlocked Awakening or something earlier on in the fight.

    - - - Updated - - -



    Because the only focus is on Luffy's supposed power-up.
    So,you think the power up is legit?

    Quote Originally Posted by Salem View Post
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    Fair enough

    I accept

    2 week avatar bet
    Quote Originally Posted by Astro View Post
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    Yeah,sure..
    Quote Originally Posted by Aether View Post
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    alright

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