Esdeath Vs. Grey Fullbuster

[Sir Torch]

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Okay, sure, sounds good. However, what makes you think that Invel's ice is colder than ice which can freeze time and space? Looks like I need to repeat myself. You can't escape Esdeath's so called time stop unless you're completely resistant to cold. Invel's ice was affecting Gray. Hence, he can't resist Esdeath's ability. Simple as that. It's like saying that Gray can escape the absolute zero.

But I think you'll agree that absolute zero and Esdeath's freezing aren't the same.
That's the thing, Gray is completely resistant to the cold. He always was. That's what makes Invel hax - he can freeze anything that touches him. That means that Tatsumi, despite being resistant to cold, would most likely also get frozen by Invel.
Gray's ice can withstand Natsu's heat, and Natsu's heat is way beyond lava temperatures. And Invel froze Natsu's fire as well.

[TOAA]

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Oh, you meant that her sword gives her an advantage? Then I could see that. I understood you literraly saying that she can slice him to bits without any proof

Nah I meant with her sword lol. Esdeath was already a war general, master tactician and the strongest fighter in the empire before she got the ice Teigu. She isn't as reliant on her ice powers as Gray is since she fights mostly as a swordswoman and uses her ice when she needs to. Gray get sliced in half

[Efege]

Ice Storm Commander-In-Chief oneshots

[Tokio]

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Okay, sure, sounds good. However, what makes you think that Invel's ice is colder than ice which can freeze time and space? Looks like I need to repeat myself. You can't escape Esdeath's so called time stop unless you're completely resistant to cold. Invel's ice was affecting Gray. Hence, he can't resist Esdeath's ability. Simple as that. It's like saying that Gray can escape the absolute zero.

something like freezing time and space isn't quantifiable. can't really be used to prove that esdeath's ice is more potent than invel's.

also, i'm pretty sure it was never said that tatsumi was completely immune to ice or the cold. only that the armor could adapt to frozen tundra's. not that it really matters.

tatsumi resistance hasn't proven to be as impressive as gray's. gray should have no issue resisting esdeath's time stop.

[Sir Torch]

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Nah I meant with her sword lol. Esdeath was already a war general, master tactician and the strongest fighter in the empire before she got the ice Teigu. She isn't as reliant on her ice powers as Gray is since she fights mostly as a swordswoman and uses her ice when she needs to. Gray get sliced in half

It's just how you worded it. "Slicing to bits" implies that her attack potency is far above Gray's durability - to the point that one slash can "slice him to bits".
She can't do that. It's not how that works. However the fact that she uses a sword and is a master tactician are good points.

[TOAA]

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It's just how you worded it. "Slicing to bits" implies that her attack potency is far above Gray's durability - to the point that one slash can "slice him to bits".
She can't do that. It's not how that works. However the fact that she uses a sword and is a master tactician are good points.

She is sadistic. If she wins the fight, she will end up slicing his beaten body into pieces or Turning him into her personal torture pet... or maybe acknowledge him since she likes strong people and detest the weak.
Another point, Due to being the head torture of the empire for years, she knows the vitals for human body and where to strike for a one hit kill.

[Sir Torch]

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She is sadistic. If she wins the fight, she will end up slicing his body into pieces or Turning him into her personal torture pet

After the fight? Probably yeah. As I said, it just sounded that since she has a sword she can easily slice him up. Which isn't true.

[Jörmungandr]

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But I think you'll agree that absolute zero and Esdeath's freezing aren't the same.
That's the thing, Gray is completely resistant to the cold. He always was. That's what makes Invel hax - he can freeze anything that touches him. That means that Tatsumi, despite being resistant to cold, would most likely also get frozen by Invel.
Gray's ice can withstand Natsu's heat, and Natsu's heat is way beyond lava temperatures. And Invel froze Natsu's fire as well.

Absolute zero was just an example. If Invel can freeze anything, then why Gray wasn't affected by his freezing? He was able to somewhat resist that because of resistance. You make it sound like Invel can freeze anything and everyone even with ice resistance or even immunity, but that's not the case here. Once again, Gray wasn't affected by Invel's freeze, however he still felt a cold, and Invel's armor could affect Gray to a certain degree. Hence, Gray has a resistance, not immunity. That's the whole point. Resistance allows you to resist ice/cold to a certain degree, immunity allows you to completely negate the ice and cold based attacks. I don't see why Tatsumi would be affected by Invel's ice as he could adapt to Esdeath who could freeze time and space, and of course, anyone within that range.

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something like freezing time and space isn't quantifiable. can't really be used to prove that esdeath's ice is more potent than invel's.

also, i'm pretty sure it was never said that tatsumi was completely immune to ice or the cold. only that the armor could adapt to frozen tundra's. not that it really matters.

tatsumi resistance hasn't proven to be as impressive as gray's. gray should have no issue resisting esdeath's time stop.

So how it can be proved that Invel's ice is more potent than Esdeath's?

It wasn't stated, however you can simply assume that from Esdeath's words. Later on Tatsumi wasn't even affected by lighting attacks as he adapted to it. It's clearly an immunity.

Based on what? Once again, it's nothing but assumption.

[Tokio]

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So how it can be proved that Invel's ice is more potent than Esdeath's?

better feats.

It wasn't stated, however you can simply assume that from Esdeath's words. Later on Tatsumi wasn't even affected by lighting attacks as he adapted to it. It's clearly an immunity.

it's clearly a complete immunity but tatsumi was only able to move in it for a moment?

Based on what? Once again, it's nothing but assumption.

how is that an assumption. all i said was tatsumi just doesn't have resistance feats as impressive as gray's. there's no reason why gray wouldn't be able to resist something if someone less capable than him was able to resist it.

[Jörmungandr]

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it's clearly a complete immunity but tatsumi was only able to move in it for a moment?

Yes, that's what Esdeath said, however he could still move within the frozen time. I mean, he didn't move in the frozen time from the beginning, that's why she said it was only for a moment. Esdeath activates her trump card -> Esdeath approaches one of the Night Raid members -> she gets attacked by Tatsumi who was able to overcome her cold -> the time of her trump card reaches its limit. It's not like Tatsumi was able to move within the frozen time only for a moment just to get frozen once again.

how is that an assumption. all i said was tatsumi just doesn't have resistance feats as impressive as gray's. there's no reason why gray wouldn't be able to resist something if someone less capable than him was able to resist it.

Look at the quote above. As I said, Tatsumi is (most likely, I'm like 98% sure) immune to ice and cold, while Gray has only a resistance to a certain degree.

[Tokio]

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Yes, that's what Esdeath said, however he could still move within the frozen time. I mean, he didn't move in the frozen time from the beginning, that's why she said it was only for a moment. Esdeath activates her trump card -> Esdeath approaches one of the Night Raid members -> she gets attacked by Tatsumi who was able to overcome her cold -> the time of her trump card reaches its limit.

as already pointed out she never actually said that, and her trump card hadn't reached it's limit at that point

It's not like Tatsumi was able to move within the frozen time only for a moment just to get frozen once again.

this is exactly what happened

didn't think the statement was very much open to interpretation but either way it was clearly illustrated the ability hadn't reached it's limit until this page, when mine visibly snaps out of it

http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online...4-page-33.html

two pages after esdeath made her comment about tatsu only being able to move within that space for a second

[Rax]

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Eh... Gray isn't immune to ice, he has a high resistance to it as Invel's ice and cold was affecting him.

And he can literally adapt and copy the ice/cold of other users by touching it.


So what?

[Jörmungandr]

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this is exactly what happened

didn't think the statement was very much open to interpretation but either way it was clearly illustrated the ability hadn't reached it's limit until this page, when mine visibly snaps out of it

http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online...4-page-33.html

two pages after esdeath made her comment about tatsu only being able to move within that space for a second

That's how the effect of her trump card looks, it's like the blue background.

Next we have a page of Esdeath's statement about Tatsumi, it's still her inner monologue, so it's not like they're moving within that time.

On the next page her inner monologue ends and the blue background disappear, basically her trump card's time limit ends on that panel.

Of course, everyone can interpret these panels in a different way, but that's what I believe in. We won't go anywhere with it, so I guess we should end there. I have nothing to say besides that anyway.

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And he can literally adapt and copy the ice/cold of other users by touching it.


So what?

Can he touch the space-time itself?

[Rax]

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That's how the effect of her trump card looks, it's like the blue background.

Next we have a page of Esdeath's statement about Tatsumi, it's still her inner monologue, so it's not like they're moving within that time.

On the next page her inner monologue ends and the blue background disappear, basically her trump card's time limit ends on that panel.

Of course, everyone can interpret these panels in a different way, but that's what I believe in. We won't go anywhere with it, so I guess we should end there. I have nothing to say besides that anyway.



Can he touch the space-time itself?

Seeing as having high cold resistance is clearly enough

[Tokio]

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That's how the effect of her trump card looks, it's like the blue background.

Next we have a page of Esdeath's statement about Tatsumi, it's still her inner monologue, so it's not like they're moving within that time.

On the next page her inner monologue ends and the blue background disappear, basically her trump card's time limit ends on that panel.

Of course, everyone can interpret these panels in a different way, but that's what I believe in. We won't go anywhere with it, so I guess we should end there. I have nothing to say besides that anyway.

i mean, that doesn't really contradict what i'm saying much.

that still goes to show that her technique was still up when she made her statement. and since she was speaking in past tense that kills your whole argument. that she was speaking in that tense tells us undeniably he wasn't consistently moving in that space.

but alright

[TOAA]

The only thing Gray has over Esdeath with his ice magic is creativity and Demon Slaying magic. Esdeath has shown to be a more fearsome ice user than Gray. She doesn't necessarily need her trump card to even beat him

[The Elementalist]

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EoS Esdeath?

aka with prep?

Yep and no unless you would like to request a extra round with prep time?