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  1. #41
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascot View Post
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    He doesnt need to challenge nobody, he just needs to relieve the Gyoku Hou. And now he just need to hold chouga there. HK or not, you dont just make 8k enemies disappear. GKH is already escaping too. Of course chouga can defeat Akou sub, but it take some time.

    Of course the gakuei army is still a factor too, nobody said it was over for Zhao, but Ou Hons plan was the best move so far in this wing.
    Let's pretend Chougaryu is Rinko, or god forbid, Kaishibou for a second here. He has caught 4500 soldiers in a trap of 17000 with another general, and their lines are on the verge of breaking. All the decent commanders escape from the formation to literally run to the other end of the battlefield, and 8000 soldiers led by a noob he can play like a fiddle or crush effortlessly, depending on his disposition, are coming to back him up. The 4500 soldiers are led by an old man who can barely sit on his horse.

    The Gyoku Hou should be destroyed by now, Chougaryu doesn't even need to do anything he can just let the sheer numbers roll over them while he plays with Akou's sub, probably takes his head in an instant. The only way this works out is if Chougaryu isn't actually particularly powerful.
    Last edited by Tenma; 11-08-2017 at 05:10 PM.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by Tenma View Post
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    Let's pretend Chougaryu is Rinko, or god forbid, Kaishibou for a second here. He has caught 4500 soldiers in a trap with another general, and their lines are on the verge of breaking. All the decent commanders escape from the formation to literally run to the other end of the battlefield, and 8000 soldiers led by a noob he can play like a fiddle or crush effortlessly, depending on his choice of warfare with a fraction of their number.

    The Gyoku Hou should be destroyed by now, Chougaryu doesn't even need to do anything he can just let the sheer numbers roll over them while he plays with Akou's sub, probably takes his head in an instant. The only way this works out s if Chougaryu isn't actually that strong.
    WOW, forget about the vassal thing then, this guy is a Great Heaven himself


    you are literally saying that in the time span of less than half a day he can wipe the floor with 12k enemies (without losing too much of his own apparently). Hara is wasting our time, Zhao already have this in the bag cause of this guy.
    Last edited by Ascot; 11-08-2017 at 05:15 PM.

  3. #43
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascot View Post
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    WOW, forget about the vassal thing then, this guy is a Great Heaven himself


    you are literally saying that in the time span of less than half a day he can wipe the floor with 12k enemies (without losing too much of his own apparently). Hara is wasting our time, Zhao already got this in the bag cause of this guy.
    We are talking 12k commanders without a single decent commander amongst them vs a fully fledged general and a HK with superior numbers, in a series where the commander means everything. This isn't 12k vs 17k in some head on clash, the Gyou Hou unit is already cannae'd and about to be crushed like a grapefruit. Them holding out for...however long it takes for Ouhon and Akou to defeat Bananji in a significantly more balanced situation would require Chougaryu to not actually be a commander of a HK's level.

    I also don't see why Chougaryu can't give whatshisface of the Akou army the Eibi/Kokugou treatment. His army will rout without leadership.
    Last edited by Tenma; 11-08-2017 at 05:21 PM.

  4. #44
    He cant because if he were a fighter he would gone for Ou hon himself and the ones he sent to do it cant reach akou sub so easily because they are far away.

    What you are expecting of this guy is magic, or some kind of jutsu. Makous were in a much worse situation and still they werent wiped out in less than 30 minutes which is what you seen to be expecting here

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascot View Post
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    He cant because if he were a fighter he would gone for Ou hon himself and the ones he sent to do it cant reach akou sub so easily because they are far away.

    What you are expecting of this guy is magic, or some kind of jutsu. Makous were in a much worse situation and still they werent wiped out in less than 30 minutes which is what you seen to be expecting here
    He doesn't need to wipe them out in half an hour, just before Ouhon's unit can achieve anything substantial, then go back up Bananji

    The GKH is already trapped in a worst-case scenario while completely headless, in the timescale of war they should be gone well before Bananji is under any sort of real threat. If a HK and a general can't deal with a useless rabble in half a day, logically Ouhon/Akou shouldn't be able to do any sort of damage to Bananji in that period, nevermind 'weaken them where they can't pose a threat' before reinforcements arrive.

    They don't even need to literally kill all 12k of them down to the last man before they do anything like you are implying, the Qin don't have a single good commander amongst them so the losses the Zhao will sustain will be negligible. The Qin just need to be weakened for them to start sending out reinforcements, hell given the quality of their opponent they can literally start doing that now.
    Last edited by Tenma; 11-08-2017 at 05:41 PM.

  6. #46
    The one who should be sending reinforcements is Gakuei since chouga rear should be already engaging, but he is at the front line so we cant be sure if he is even aware of Ou Hons movements (after all, its Gakuei).

    and yes, he need to do substancial damage before starting to sending men away or he would just be turning his back on an alive enemy and the individual strenght of his soldiers should not be so far above of Akous men. If he were right now then his army would be the headless one.

    We cant even be sure that this isnt his plans for next chap, as I said its not determined that this is a Qin victory yet. Anyway I still dont see a problem with what the chap showed us.

  7. #47
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    I just realised, Ouhon is capable of outrunning them for now, but if the enemy commander just ordered like 1 or 2k of his men to keep pursuing Ouhon, those men would just be able to backstab/flank Ouhon when he is going to clash with Bananji's army. and Ouhon's plan would fail.

    and the enemy on the battlefield that Ouhon left would still be superior to the remains Gyoku Hou and Akou army combined that are in a pinch.

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  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascot View Post
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    The one who should be sending reinforcements is Gakuei since chouga rear should be already engaging, but he is at the front line so we cant be sure if he is even aware of Ou Hons movements (after all, its Gakuei).

    and yes, he need to do substancial damage before starting to sending men away or he would just be turning his back on an alive enemy and the individual strenght of his soldiers should not be so far above of Akous men. If he were right now then his army would be the headless one.

    We cant even be sure that this isnt his plans for next chap, as I said its not determined that this is a Qin victory yet. Anyway I still dont see a problem with what the chap showed us.
    Again this is a HK and a general vs ...I don't even know who's worth a damn on that end. They don't need numerical advantage or even parity to deliver a crushing defeat to a poorly organised rabble, concentrating the brunt in their manpower onto a headless army is a waste, they can start sending troops to Bananji's aid or Ouhon's/Akou's rear now and that side of the battlefield should still be a total wash that they have no chance of losing.

    if those 12k soldiers are as serious an opponent as you say even without worthwhile commanders, then what Ouhon should have done is regroup the Gyoku Hou and destroy snakehead and Gakuei with his leadership and tactics.
    Last edited by Tenma; 11-08-2017 at 06:27 PM.

  9. #49
    Mmmm. Beeeer. Zentos's Avatar
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    What needs to be noted here is that even Ouhon should be aware that this wasn't a move that was about to end the right battlefield. He simply went from being absolutely fucked to actually being able to do something. It's far from over, that's why the chapter ended just as he engaged Bananji's rear. The brilliant part here was salvaging a situation that most people would consider a dead end.

  10. #50
    Who says they are "poorly organized rabble"?

    Again, they are not militia. If Ousens first army can die so easily Qin can just go back home or since they cant, just surrender.

    Actually, your whole line of thought just makes this very easy for zhao and the qin seens to be doomed
    Last edited by Ascot; 11-08-2017 at 07:02 PM.

  11. #51
    My interpretation of this: Ouhon seemed to face two possible outcomes.
    (1) GHU gets wrecked and Ouhon dies.
    (2) GHU gets wrecked, but Ouhon escapes.
    He turned (2) into (3):
    (3) GHU gest wrecked, but Ouhon gives Akou a huge opening against Bananji.

    So yeah, things are still terrible for the GHU, but at least Ouhon did something to make up for this on another part of the battlefield.
    Last edited by barreltheif; 11-08-2017 at 09:25 PM.
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  12. #52
    solid chapter, though I don't like how Ouhon slipped past all those units with ease while Zhao did nothing but miss.

    http://sensescans.com/reader/content...42070f/011.png

    them Zhao horses tho

    http://sensescans.com/reader/content...42070f/013.png
    @giantbiceps; did sensescans hire you to redraw this, you did Kanjou dirty on this page

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    time for a thread idea: what would Makou do?

    Quote Originally Posted by Crispinianus View Post
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    the theme of the chapter was alright, but the dynamics were awful

    it's almost as if the battlefield froze while ouhon took is yet not so short detour. Where did bananji lose the responsiveness he showed in the first day? How could he not see the threat as his own reserved were aimlessly roaming around ouhon as mad bees? How are the rest of ouhon's men able to save themselves in a pinch like that? How is it ending up to be crippling to bananji, and not to ouhon himself? And didn't bananji have the advantage of seeing akou's army split, has he exploited it at all?
    I agree with this actually, instead of teleportation this time we got all of Zhao's communications frozen while the reserves are aimlessly pursuing and missing Ouhon as he bobs and weaves a long ass distance to get to Banana's stem.

    Though, I don't mind GHU surviving this long since snek head's unit is being pincered after all and Gakuei is a scrub. Just show how they're doing soon and all will be good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
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    Don't think the Akou 'hype' proves anything. No one really called him a brainless idiot beforehand, to my knowledge.

    Good chapter though.

    - - - Updated - - -



    I haven't thought Bananji is all that from the start tbh. He's a good general until shown otherwise.
    tbf, if anything it's Makou who set the standard


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  13. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
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    s

    http://sensescans.com/reader/content...42070f/013.png
    @giantbiceps; did sensescans hire you to redraw this, you did Kanjou dirty on this page

    Kanjou has the Shin sweating disease


  14. #54
    Quote Originally Posted by Ascot View Post
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    Who says they are "poorly organized rabble"?

    Again, they are not militia. If Ousens first army can die so easily Qin can just go back home or since they cant, just surrender.

    Actually, your whole line of thought just makes this very easy for zhao and the qin seens to be doomed
    Laughable non-sequitur. Both GKH and Akou army are quite powerful, but in the absence of any notable commanders they can't pull off tactical maneuvers or strategies on the level of 2 armies firing at full capacity with a massive numerical disadvantage. In what universe does a HK need 17000 soldiers and another general to beat 12000 soldiers without their leadership?

    Any high-end general should be able to win 12000 soldiers with even less than their number 10/10 times due to a massive difference in strategy and leadership. Mouten claimed that before Shin got a strategist, they could have won with a third their number. Why does Chougaryu need to keep all his forces here to fight a battle he can win no matter what, instead of being resourceful and sending out reinforcements immediately? Akou sent off half his army to save Ouhon while about to clash with Bananji but no this (relatively) leaderless militia has Chougaryu tied down completely? Come on
    Last edited by Tenma; 11-09-2017 at 01:01 AM.

  15. #55
    There's barely any tactical maneuver to do though... All which is left is just breaking through and outrun the enemy.

    Ouhon's detachment also works as bait to draw the focus fire so that the rest of the unit can escape. Iirc Akou also send some of his unit to help Ouhon, so there should be some help on securing escape route

    Most likely there's still quite a lot of loss though

  16. #56
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    I absolutely hate what they have done with Ouhon here...They basically made his accomplishment, providing it is a success, greater than Mouten...

    It would have been better character development if he barely survived watching his whole unit be slaughtered only then to awaken...

    Its disgusting...

    If they dont make Shin's accomplishment greater than both of those guys then fuck Hara.


    Also how is the large part of Ouhon's men going to survive? Lets see how will the teleport from the pincer?

  17. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by i c e View Post
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    If they dont make Shin's accomplishment greater than both of those guys then fuck Hara.
    Nah, Shin will take a head or possibly two.

    Mouten and Ouhan will just save the flanking armies. I will wager that Akou will take a head though. Actually, Akou gets a "Killing Death" - or sacrifical death - he dies as he kills an enemy commander. THat I could see.

  18. #58
    Quote Originally Posted by i c e View Post
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    I absolutely hate what they have done with Ouhon here...They basically made his accomplishment, providing it is a success, greater than Mouten...

    How? Mouten had to salvage a situation with a side who were practically on its knees against a side who were at their morale peak - and we've seen that Rigan are an army who're effected more by morale than any other army in this war at least and perhaps in the series.
    Last edited by Kanki; 11-09-2017 at 12:59 PM.

  19. #59
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    this is no greater than what mouten did for now, and i don't think it's gonna be anywhere close either.

    after all, mouten got promoted on two feet after that. I don't see it happening again much less with ouhon
    ~Lemon~


  20. #60
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    Not to mention, Ouhon actually thought the way Mouten advised him to in order to achieve what he's done this chapter, so it makes it look like Ouhon is Mouten's student somewhat

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