Page 7 of 7 FirstFirst ... 567
Results 121 to 127 of 127
  1. #121
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    The shouting point, fair enough. The rest...I can't agree at all. It was never said to Qin that Ouki lost due to horse speed as best I recall, and banking on Riboku having that specific horse at that moment is by no means a given anyway. Not only that but I think it is totally illogical to believe Shin's thought process should have been; "the enemy commander in chief is there, he's close and doesn't know I can see him, but I won't chase him just because he might be using the fastest type of horse in China". That is totally unrealistic.
    What a rare wall of texts.. I don't really have time to read them all sadly, but on this point gonna say that it was stated that if it's not the fast horse, Ouki would have had demolish Chousou and retreat. So it is indeed, the horse that give Riboku the win (along with the information check by Riboku)

  2. #122
    I think Hara has already decided to allocated the Stars:

    1. Star of Left ["Mouten"] --> Proved in the recent chapters [Poor "Ma Kou" lost his head for trying this..]
    2. Star of Right ["OuHan"] --> In Progress
    3. Star of Center ["Shin"] --> Yet to Start
    Last edited by Luckykrish; 10-13-2017 at 08:51 AM.

  3. #123
    Quote Originally Posted by gn_x00 View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    What a rare wall of texts.. I don't really have time to read them all sadly, but on this point gonna say that it was stated that if it's not the fast horse, Ouki would have had demolish Chousou and retreat. So it is indeed, the horse that give Riboku the win (along with the information check by Riboku)
    That wasn't my point. My point was whether Qin and Shin specifically realized it was due to the horses and whether they knew it was 100% sure Riboku would be riding that horse today.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Void View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    doesn't matter, we're talking about their decisions to go after a CiC, not how they dealt with traps when it happened. Houken didn't start off as a trap either, but apparently the plan was to have Houken bait Moubu into a trapped area, somewhat similar to how Riboku led Shin to an ambush site. Again, we give Moubu shit for disregarding the trap but are you going to tell me Moubu's decision to chase after Houken when Houken is right in front of him as stupid as I think Shin's decision to chase after Riboku when Kisui's right above him is?
    The difference is, Shin changed his plan when the situation changed. Moubu was specifically told "Do not do X", and he did it. Plus Riboku at the time Shin saw him, was not in a trap-position.

    I don't think Moubu's decision was totally retarded btw, I can see why he did it. My point is if Shin chasing after Riboku was an example of why he can't even be Domon or Eibi level with that stupidity, then by that very same logic Moubu can't be much more either, yet we know he was.

    I've stated many times before that I give the HSU a pass for not knowing about the horses, that's why I haven't attacked it. The problem with the decision is that Riboku is a moving target while Shin was right next to Kisui's static HQ. That is what Shin doesn't see, he went after Riboku because it's Riboku, not that he knows and has considered that taking the CiC's head here and now in this situation would be better than taking Kisui's. You're giving Shin way too much credit.
    I'm not giving Shin credit at all though. You won't find one time where I've said Shin made an intelligent decision, I'm saying it wasn't a retarded decision. There's a big difference IMO. He went after Riboku because of everything Riboku is. Do you think he'd go after someone he hates just as much if that person was a 5k commander? I don't think so.

    Look at Kisui's HQ location again, he's on top of a hill and sandwiched between two large Zhao armies engaged with Qin armies. Not to mention the HSU unit was super close to his location rather than Riboku's. Are you actually trying to make a point that although a static Kisui is closer than a moving Riboku to the HSU, it's actually the same possibility or even a higher possibility of Kisui getting away from the HSU than Riboku? This isn't Fuuki where Shin had to attack a moving HQ on flat land while his men were unmounted peasants. Plus all your talk of prep, you really think it's best for the unprepared-to-pursue-Riboku HSU to go after the so called unprepared unprotected Riboku rather than a prepared-and-given-Kisui-as-an-objective HSU to go after the prepared but static Kisui?
    Nope, I'm saying the risk-reward ratio made it an understandable move, since it is far from a given that Kisui was an open target. He absolutely was not. Shin didn't give up a guaranteed kill on Kisui whatsoever, it would have been a challenge also because Kisui still had moves he could play.

    It seems that you're not getting my viewpoint so I'll put it this way: imagine the Riboku/Kisui decision as a basketball shooting competition where you get one shot and if you make it, you win cash. I consider Kisui's option as shooting the ball from the free throw line to win 1 million bucks, it's much closer and easier to make, way less "risk" of missing so to say. On the other hand, Riboku's option is to try to make the shot for 10 million bucks but from half court, it's much further and the shot has more "risk" of not making it in. BUT, this current situation is more like if you can choose any option but if you miss either, you're placed 1 million dollars into debt. From what I get, you're arguing that it's okay to go for the Riboku shot in the first scenario, go big or go home right? Well, from what I see, my viewpoint is that the Shin decision is more like the second scenario, where if you miss any shot, you'll have to pay. In this situation, you simply don't have the leeway to go big or go home and fail, because Shin's decision isn't like the first scenario where if you miss the shot, status quo remains the same and you have the same amount of wealth as you did before the challenge so go big or go home mentality isn't at fault. My point is, it's more like the second scenario where go big or go home mentality doesn't work because there's no status quo to fall upon and can't be depended to dig yourself out of a hole when there's a better option available to dig yourself out.

    Of course, letting Riboku go is obviously a big no no, but I would only blame Shin for choosing Kisui over Riboku only if he had an almost similar chance of getting either, and in my shot scenario, it would be like if the Riboku and Kisui option were both half court shots. Of course one should choose Riboku over Kisui no matter the consequences. Anyways, it's a very simplistic analogy I admit, but I find it good enough to illustrate my viewpoint on the risk taking and consequences of the decisions.
    I would go further with that analogy though - Shin taking out Kisui means he has just won the first 1/4 against GSW. Shin taking out Riboku means he's just beaten GSW, taken out Curry + Durant for the season and effectively guaranteed his team an NBA ring.

    That is how important Riboku is.

    Though I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree

    -

  4. #124
    Man of 1004 Gifts Void's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    50,379
    I really don't wanna continue walls of texts that really lead to nothing and all we do is repeat ourselves
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote

    The difference is, Shin changed his plan when the situation changed. Moubu was specifically told "Do not do X", and he did it. Plus Riboku at the time Shin saw him, was not in a trap-position.

    I don't think Moubu's decision was totally retarded btw, I can see why he did it. My point is if Shin chasing after Riboku was an example of why he can't even be Domon or Eibi level with that stupidity, then by that very same logic Moubu can't be much more either, yet we know he was.
    again, way too much credit

    Houken at the time Moubu basically hugged him, was not in a trap position either

    you're basically comparing two different phases of each scenario when it's not fair to do so. Moubu's decision to chase after Houken after attacking Chousou's camp initially = Shin's decision to chase down Riboku over attacking Kisui initially. Moubu deciding to chase Houken into a trap even after being warned = Shin deciding not to chase Riboku into a trap after being warned.

    Moubu wins the first and Shin wins the second, but again, I'm debating about the first only

    I'm not giving Shin credit at all though. You won't find one time where I've said Shin made an intelligent decision, I'm saying it wasn't a retarded decision. There's a big difference IMO. He went after Riboku because of everything Riboku is. Do you think he'd go after someone he hates just as much if that person was a 5k commander? I don't think so.
    yes you are, you're making it sound like you're defending his decision because he considered his options intelligently and knew the full consequences of his actions when he didn't. There's quick thinking and improv and there's impulsive apes rushing into battle, which Shin is the former.

    And what is Riboku to Shin then? In your opinion, he's CiC of Zhao, kill him and Zhao is basically crippled and the war is basically won. Perfectly acceptable line of thinking but again, this is giving way too much credit to Shin who lives day by day and can't see the big picture at all. IMO, Riboku is to Shin a guy who bested Ouki in warfare and a benchmark for glory first and foremost, a guy that'll get you an instant promotion.

    Of course Shin's not that petty, Riboku isn't a guy who killed Hyou or raped people.

    Nope, I'm saying the risk-reward ratio made it an understandable move, since it is far from a given that Kisui was an open target. He absolutely was not. Shin didn't give up a guaranteed kill on Kisui whatsoever, it would have been a challenge also because Kisui still had moves he could play.
    He was a static target that can't easily move, you don't have to chase him down from a huge distance to start with and he can't move his HQ on a dime. Seriously, if one could move their hilltop HQ anytime they wanted even half the speed of Riboku's horses, why would Ousen even send this idiot after Kisui?

    I would go further with that analogy though - Shin taking out Kisui means he has just won the first 1/4 against GSW. Shin taking out Riboku means he's just beaten GSW, taken out Curry + Durant for the season and effectively guaranteed his team an NBA ring.

    That is how important Riboku is.

    Though I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree

    -
    oh no you don't

    you're changing shots for cash to intentionally injuring players in a game series to win it?

    I bet you were the guy that cheered when Zaza stepped on Kawhi's ankles and injured him. Shin would never intentionally do such a thing, if he did, he would've tried his best to kill Riboku in the Chu forest.

    Agreed
    The Gift of Jericho, Drink it in maaaaaannnnnn!!!!


    The Glorious Fellowship of the Round Jacuzzi:
    https://i.imgur.com/tDbgtsy.jpg

  5. #125
    is there a break this week?

  6. #126
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanki View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    is there a break this week?
    Thought the new chapter is out for your post

    *disappointed*

  7. #127
    I do not think hunting down riboku was a stupid decision, this was quite discussed here, so I think it's clear to everyone the weight of riboku's head and how it crush the whole state of zhao right on the first day ,
    just as everyone realized the great chance they lost by not going after kisui/batei.
    the problem was the scene development , I think a few scenarios showing shin thinking, analyzing the situation will give a completely different impression about it (I dont expected a mouten/Ouhon analysis level, a very shallow analysis would be enough)
    I really do not remember if this was always this way, but I've noticed Shin becomes a character who does not think (literally) he externally all his thoughts impulsively, I cant remember when it was the last time I saw a thought baloon under shin. Maybe to writing propose, I dumb character Force the others explain the situation to the readers

    the situation could be the same to

    hunt riboku > fail to hunt due to fast horses > return before falling into an obvious trap

    the big problem was going out screaming, abandoning the whole unit without even giving a warning. literally like a hungry animal, completely devoid of rationality

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by DreXel. View Post
    This quote is hidden because you are ignoring this member. Show Quote
    Thought the new chapter is out for your post

    *disappointed*
    I'm too
    Last edited by OldFuneral; 10-18-2017 at 06:46 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •