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  1. #1
    Skraawwk!! Makenzye's Avatar
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    The Negative Speed Force and Barry Allen

    SPOILERS BELOW IN CASE YOU'RE PLANNING ON READING IT!!










    Last Chance.
























    Seriously, this is it.



















    So as we know, Barry voluntarily submerged himself into the Negative Speed Force to save Iris and her family from any actions Eobard might enact. Obviously Eobard was lying, but Barry did something which wasn't predicted in absorbing the Negative Speed Force into himself. Unfortunately for Barry, it's come at some costs and unknown consequences and has fundamentally changed his powers. However, there are a few changes which can be determined from what we've seen so far:

    First and foremost among the changes is Barry's personality itself:


    The Negative Speed Force has seen the rise of an obviously more aggressive Flash in the two issues we've seen so far. Up to and including trying to kill an enemy, intentionally destroying vehicles at high speed, and unleashing powers he normally holds in reserve. Personally, I think the Negative Speed Force itself can just be horribly corrupting. It could easily be that this affects personalities as well or at least enhances the more hard to control elements as the Negative Speed Force is shown to be a more unstable form of the Speed Force anyway. With such an unstable energy source it might be affecting how Barry perceives and even reacts.

    Like any Speed Force it allows him to move at incomprehensible speeds, including traveling time both willingly and unknowingly.

    This may represent how much power lies in the Negative Speed Force as even normally Barry had to at least work to get through time. Here he blasted himself through time after circumventing the globe several times and then just as easily ran back with no issue. While we haven't seen him having an issue pinpointing where he lands in time we can assume that when he focuses it works as normal.

    Speed theft.

    One of his more interesting powers, and sort of what I was talking about in how he's more ruthless than normal. He can still take speed and I assume he can still bestow it as normal. What's interesting about this is usually the Flash needs to be in very close proximity (usually some form of physical contact) for this little move to work, but it almost looked like he robbed it out of it's source mid-run.

    Ambient Speed Force control has declined or become more difficult

    Barry is always pulsing with the power of the SF, but normally it's so smooth he doesn't have any issues channeling it and not having it affect anything. In this case he can barely keep it contained without putting effort.

    His power doesn't seem as "self powered" as they once were.

    Before his new power, the SF would lend him most of the energy he required to perform his tasks. But now it looks like he's barely holding on right after using them but he's not sure why and neither are we. It could be the NSF just isn't as giving, or as easy, or maybe even as complete as the regular SF. Though Eobard never seemed to have these issues.


    His powers have become more subconsciously, unpredictably, or uncontrollably destructive.

    These powers seem to reflect how Walter West channeled the regular SF, but an even less controlled degree. Barry is extremely well educated on how to move fast without any issues and vibrate right through bullets, but it seems the more he tries to use the NSF the more it seems to have a "negative" effect. When he runs, things nearby overcharge and explode and the energy he normally completely reduces leaks and eradicates the ground beneath him.




    So why is this happening? Well, maybe a few things or a mixture are at play here:

    • The Negative Speed Force is naturally unstable and/or incomplete.
      • Designed and powered by an unstable personality as a reflection of the much more stable Speed Force, so anything that uses it and tries to tackle it from a "sane" point of view naturally struggles with it.

    • The Negative Speed Force can corrupt or damage something and Eobard was unique in how he was mostly free of its effects by his design.
      • Because if we remember he was going to trap Barry in the Negative Speed Force and felt Barry could never escape it.

    • Third, the Negative Speed Force just doesn't mix well with the regular old Speed Force.
      • It's previously been described as a cancer within the normal Speed Force and the last time Barry was "infected" with it he just straight up killed any speedster he touched. Why do I point this out? Barry is the source of the Speed Force, meaning he possibly has both surging through him at any given time right now.



    Of these three, I believe the third is definitely in play with a possibility of the first two factoring in. If Barry has internalized and is trying to control a naturally unpredictable and unstable force that negatively interacts with the normal Speed Force which he should still be charged with then his powers should be going haywire and may even explain why he's so damn exhausted by the end of every run. When he uses his powers, the NSF might be accidentally counteracting the regular SF and so when he's trying to vibrate or just run it's causing a stressful destructive after effect.

    Granted, all of this is just wild speculation and I'm probably looking into this more than I should be. But what are your thoughts? Do you like the idea of Barry wielding a potentially more dangerous version of the Speed Force? Why hasn't he (or can he even) purged it? Do you think it's because Iris currently has rejected him that the NSF is feeding off of him and becoming unpredictable as a result?
    Last edited by Makenzye; 08-09-2017 at 08:51 PM.



  2. #2
    DoflaMihawk's Avatar
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    That first panel is chilling.

    You think this NSF could turn Barry to the dark side? Has he ever been evil in some alternative timeline? I could only imagine what evil Flash could do.

  3. #3
    Skraawwk!! Makenzye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoflaMihawk View Post
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    That first panel is chilling.

    You think this NSF could turn Barry to the dark side? Has he ever been evil in some alternative timeline? I could only imagine what evil Flash could do.
    I should've added in it can and does alter Barry's appearance and even his size, because he spent that first fight as a gargantuan.


    There is at least one version where Barry Allen is a bad guy Flash hinted at, and obviously the Johnny Quick of the CSA would be one as well. But the only well known alternate "bad guy" Flash would be Wally West's alternate who goes by Walter West. He was a Flash who lost his Linda and went on a speed fueled rampage against any and all crime with a very severe method of handling his enemies. As in, he has no enemies since he kills them in horrific ways. In fact there aren't many criminals at all on his Earth since he is a very proactive hardline anti-hero. Funny enough, a lot of Flash powers as we understand them (such as vibration) stems from Walter's exploration of the Speed Force. On his world he's considered a criminal who is hunted by the Justice League.



  4. #4
    Not Gay Gay's Avatar
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    -Fresh out of an icky gooey womb-

  5. #5
    Sincerely Insincere Y's Avatar
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    we had a talk about NSF sometime ago didn't we


  6. #6
    Skraawwk!! Makenzye's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Y View Post
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    we had a talk about NSF sometime ago didn't we
    That we did. In fact it's what partially had me make this thread since people were interested on how it interacted with the regular Speed Force.



  7. #7
    Skraawwk!! Makenzye's Avatar
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    Felt like this needed an update, even if it's kind of resolved now.

    So what about the Negative Speed Force and Barry Allen? Well, we do know it amps up his powers quite a bit and potentially destabilizes him.

    We know that sometimes his powers react in weird ways he never expected them to, or doesn't necessarily intend them to, and tends to have negative results (no pun intended).




    From these two panels we can determine that not only does the Negative Speed Force sort of "act" on it's own in response to his personal feelings, but works in a way Barry didn't expect nor even detect on a subconscious level. The "lightning" seems to respond to his own sort of aversion to Bloodworx's blood tendrils, and by Barry trying to avoid them, the lightning just fries it instead. We saw this before when Barry was trying to "avoid" bullets and instead the NSF just atomized the bullets as they entered its range instead. What makes this most interesting is this might actually be a bit of time manipulation with Barry's inherent powers since we've previously seen that he just surges back and forth through time with zero issue, but it may just simply be an energetic expression of the NSF itself. And I'm kind of leaning on the latter, since the NSF seems to be fairly destructive outright. While we see the veins rip in what may be rapid aging, we also see Barry outright state that his aura was just stacking up the damage leveled at him by Shrapnel until it just released it all and exploded suggesting the aura works partially through time, and mostly as energy. It may also just work entirely as energy, but I would imagine given the time screwery we normally are treated to with the Reverse Flash and what we've seen previously, there's probably a hint of time at work here. We also see the energy aspect in two other scenes where Barry outright uses the NSF as a weapon of destruction instead of a skill of manipulation, which would fit the destructive theme of the NSF as we've seen it and how it influences others. Below.





    Above we see Barry just outright using the NSF as a form of energy weapon, and in one case just used it to completely overload an enemy which was feeding off of his NSF energy to empower itself. What's most interesting in the second panel is a hint of what I was talking about in the previous idea: There are two Speed Forces within Barry. So far we've only ever seen Barry channel the black lightning of the NSF, but here we witness what may be the "bright" lightning of the regular Speed Force working in unison. However, this panel also suggests again that emotion is what drives Barry's power functions and that the NSF sort of just reacts to it and "lashes out" on Barry's part. And we see it pretty much suggested again at the beginning of this fight and I thought might be happening before: The more Barry is trying to do something, the more the NSF just sorts of does it to the nth degree. He wants to avoid something, the NSF subconsciously acts on it, he gets angry and the NSF subconsciously acts on it. See below.





    Here we are treated to possibly the best example of how his powers just sort of operate on a grander scale. When he's sort of thinking of doing something, the instability of the NSF on him combined with how the NSF acts on a very instinctual level just sort of... does it all for him. The regular SF was instinctual and functioned as a subconscious effort as well, but this is a very different dog.

    In the first scene Barry is challenged with the knowledge that a man who controls blood will kill a lot of his friends and colleagues (and people he probably just sort of knows, and most likely people in the crossfire), and the unstable state of the NSF allows his anger to just fire out of control. This results in the projection abilities we've seen common with Barry's use of the NSF just erupt out of him. Now Barry, a guy who can be emotional but more or less can keep a lid on it, is seen just lost in this hatred even as he commits the act and only after realizes what he did and how it wasn't even his intention to do what he did. The question arises: Does the more Barry use the NSF will it corrupt him further like previously wondered? We see in a future race that without the calming effect of running with Wally's regular Speed Force that he quickly gets mad and needs to be calmed down. Granted he may have been pushing himself, but it looks like he gets lost in it again. Unfortunately, we'll never see how it affects Barry since he no longer has the NSF and I didn't get a panel because I'm lazy as fuck. But maybe we'll see if this continues under the new Negative Flash. Either way, on to the next scene. We get straight confirmation that the NSF has been at least influencing his emotions and possibly corrupting him further. Before he was able to sort of keep a lid on it, and then when he's chewed out at the office he just explodes into a tirade and tells the office to fire him completely. And then...



    Here we go. Straight dick confirmation that the NSF actually DOES push his emotions out of stability. And the idea he gets "madder and madder" alludes to further corruption and loss of control in himself and possibly his powers. The question then becomes: Is the NSF trying to return itself to a state of equilibrium and basically recreate Eobard Thawne in some sort of way? Maybe not directly, of course. But more in like how he behaved I mean. Like... Doesn't see problems as his own fault, but instead just projects them on others and becomes further and further destructive. I wouldn't outright say the NSF is trying to literally recreate Eobard. Though if Eobard created and had an unspoken connection to the NSF, I guess it could happen. That's just kind of wild speculating, though. I'm thinking it'll just make the user more similar to Eobard with the weird crazy emotional instability and sadistic behavior. Either way, moving on.

    The NSF is destructive BOTH ways. I wanted to post this as soon as I read it last time and completely forgot, wanting to talk about what I thought it meant but I'm just gonna save it for the end. We see below that the NSF has a detrimental effect on Barry himself, something Eobard didn't have, and may be unique to Barry himself. I didn't post what I originally thought about it last time because I kind of forgot to at first and alluded to what I thought was happening later on in the post. But the gist of it was Barry doesn't seem to be as "replenished" by the NSF as he was by the regular SF and has serious exhaustion with its use. But now we see it goes a little bit further than that. Here are a few panels showing the aftermath of what happens to Barry after excessive use of the NSF:






    Annnnd... Ouch. Barry is hurt bad after his fight with Shrapnel here and doesn't just bounce back like normal. He actually requires care and recuperation well beyond normal for him. It isn't like some of his fights have taken him down for a while, but this panel would suggest that the NSF doesn't really care about the "regenerative" aspects of the power spectrum, but instead just focuses on the more destructive. Or does it....? Because what I thought was happening might have been what was going on all along. Remember when I said some of these problems might be unique to Barry? Well, read below:





    And here it is. Barry STILL contains the Speed Force. (Obvious, but many felt he was simply re-routed and was not using it). But here we have the implication these two Forces are trying to act at the same time, and that's important. Remember how I talked about how unpredictable and uncontrollable the NSF was? Well, it may not have been as bad if Barry's inherent powers weren't conflicting with his interfacing of the NSF. It's not that it is controllable, but what if having two SF's at all just made it really hard to internalize and use? Remember how he always seems out of gas? When I said the NSF doesn't seem to care about how Barry heals? What if it was simply conflicting with the RSF's natural tendency to do this for him and therefore not only was he not being supplied with the energy necessary, but NEITHER Speed Force could heal him the same way when outside of battle? Because when he pushes his powers hard they can heal, and we see it immediately after his bathtub scene he's more or less fine when he shows up to work. Why then? Well, maybe because he's angry and the NSF seems to respond strongest when he's angry. And the effects of the NSF weren't abated by the RSF in the same way the reverse is true, just it's control. Not when he's afraid, not when he's self-pitying, just when he's really mad. That's when the NSF seems to work strongest, but it doesn't last because when he exits that phase his powers seem to recede again and only burn as a side-effect of him using them at all. When he's angry though? His powers explode out of control, and the RSF might be causing that in part by constantly conflicting inside of Barry himself.

    So. Would the NSF be stronger without the RSF eating at it? Maybe. Maybe not. I'd assume not really since Barry seems to be actively trying to use the NSF and not the RSF, unaware of his own connection to the RSF he himself generates. Truly, the NSF just seems to obfuscate and cloud Barry's greater judgement and introspective personality. He doesn't feel like he can really slow down and observe things, he's become impulsive and hates what he feels inside. He didn't know how his powers were behaving in the fight with Shrapnel, so maybe the NSF just clouded his ability to know he still had the RSF, and therefore just couldn't use it the same way as before.

    However, there is one thing we could draw from Barry and the NSF. The NSF was built to be a destructive and rapid power itself. And we know we're about to see how it affects others. Though, the Negative Flash has some regular ol' RSF in herself so it might just do the same thing here.



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