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  1. #3721
    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    I don't care if they knew what they were getting themselves into, that's bullshit because not all people who identify as muslims are going to observe their religion the same way.

    Your beliefs are fundamentally arbitrary as well. You derive your morality from god, but as I demonstrated in the "Left vs Right" thread it doesn't matter how powerful you are, moral statements don't have any universal truth value. You went so far as to affirm that god can make any conceivable thing come to pass even if it violates the laws of logic, which is an utterly idiotic and self defeating position because it renders all of rationality meaningless and means that god could do things like stop being god, make ME more powerful than he is etc.

    The Euthypharo Dilemma is another thing that stumps the bullshit notion that god decides what right and wrong are
    Islam isn't like some other beliefs. The truth is clear from falsehood for all except those with issues. It is universally accepted that acting upon homosexual desires is a sin. And that's really all there is to it.

    God created morality, just like He created the sun and the moon. There is no difference between the abstract and the concrete for God. He has no limits. Deep down, you realize this. That is why when I asked you if you would be obliged to obey God in a hypothetical scenario where He determines what is right and what is wrong, you refused to do so. You've also admitted in the past that you would not believe even if you thought Islam was true, which shows us that your motivation is not determining the truth but following your whims and desires regardless of the consequences.

    The Euthypharo Dilemma is not a dilemma at all for Muslims. The jist of this 'dilemma' is "Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?" The answer is that it is morally good because it is commanded by God, for He and He alone determines what is and is not good.
    No.​

  2. #3722
    Red Hero Rax's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    I'm in Pakistan and have seen multiple churches. If you're going to troll, as least be a good one.



    I'm not sure. It's really strange.



    No, it's not. Contrary to what some people say, there is no death penalty simply for being homosexual. Nor is being homosexual technically forbidden, since it's not like they chose to be attracted to the same sex (whether or not it's genetic is irrelevant). The sin is acting on homosexual desires. In an Islamic state (of which none exists) there is a death penalty (carried out by the state not by random citizens) for Muslims who are caught in the middle of homosexual activity and, honestly, the only way to get caught would be to engage in such vile actions in public. As for non-Muslims, they are judged by their own people according to their own laws.

    https://www.churchinneed.org/mosul-i...s-done-church/

    http://www.breitbart.com/jerusalem/2...f-destruction/


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  3. #3723
    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    Now youre just being dishonest.

    Ive fucking told you what principles guide my beliefs a million times - the wellbeing of humanity and productivity of society. Youd find that this is what nearly everyone else values as well, so you cannot argue that my personal beliefs don't have any foundation or rationale behind them.
    That is not what guides your beliefs. If it was, you'd have an understanding of how actions affect society. Instead, you place individual freedom over the wellbeing of society. That's why you're okay with 'protected' incest, despite the fact that it becoming a widespread practice would destroy the very fabric of society.

    Also, you can have principles guiding arbitrary beliefs if those principles themselves are arbitrary.
    No.​

  4. #3724
    Did you just link me to Brietbart?
    No.​

  5. #3725
    ReXDrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Islam isn't like some other beliefs. The truth is clear from falsehood for all except those with issues. It is universally accepted that acting upon homosexual desires is a sin. And that's really all there is to it.

    God created morality, just like He created the sun and the moon. There is no difference between the abstract and the concrete for God. He has no limits. Deep down, you realize this. That is why when I asked you if you would be obliged to obey God in a hypothetical scenario where He determines what is right and what is wrong, you refused to do so. You've also admitted in the past that you would not believe even if you thought Islam was true, which shows us that your motivation is not determining the truth but following your whims and desires regardless of the consequences.

    The Euthypharo Dilemma is not a dilemma at all for Muslims. The jist of this 'dilemma' is "Is what is morally good commanded by God because it is morally good, or is it morally good because it is commanded by God?" The answer is that it is morally good because it is commanded by God, for He and He alone determines what is and is not good.
    You just don't get it

    You CANT "create" an abstract notion like morality. It isn't CAPABLE of being true or false the way a logical syllogism is. There is no normativity to concepts like right or wrong. Saying that god isn't limited by either the abstract or the material is just a cop out. You cant detail the mechanism by which any of this shit happens

    I see youre still being dishonest. I said I wouldn't WORSHIP god even if I thought that he existed. THAT DOES NOT mean I wouldn't respect or admire him if I thought he was a perfect and good being.

    You don't get it. If good and bad are whatever god commands them to be, then the terms carry no weight, because they can just be changed whenever god pleases. You just fucked over your own position






    Not everyone dies because they want to die.

    Most of them die against their will

  6. #3726
    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    You just don't get it

    You CANT "create" an abstract notion like morality. It isn't CAPABLE of being true or false the way a logical syllogism is. There is no normativity to concepts like right or wrong. Saying that god isn't limited by either the abstract or the material is just a cop out. You cant detail the mechanism by which any of this shit happens

    I see youre still being dishonest. I said I wouldn't WORSHIP god even if I thought that he existed. THAT DOES NOT mean I wouldn't respect or admire him if I thought he was a perfect and good being.

    You don't get it. If good and bad are whatever god commands them to be, then the terms carry no weight, because they can just be changed whenever god pleases. You just fucked over your own position
    You can if you're omnipotent. I'm not sure why this is such a hard concept to grasp for you.

    The only way to respect and admire God is to worship Him. Anything less is an insult. In the end, you'd be willing to throw yourself into Hell because you didn't want to listen to the being that created you and sustains you. How is that different from a child throwing themselves into a volcano because they didn't want to obey their parents?

    God's commands carry weight because they come from God. If He chooses to change them, as He has done in the past, the weight behind the commands doesn't change because the source of the weight is not the command itself but the source of the command (ie - God).
    No.​

  7. #3727
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Did you just link me to Brietbart?
    >Ignores the other link


    https://www.churchinneed.org/mosul-i...s-done-church/


    There you go.


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  8. #3728
    ReXDrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    That is not what guides your beliefs. If it was, you'd have an understanding of how actions affect society. Instead, you place individual freedom over the wellbeing of society. That's why you're okay with 'protected' incest, despite the fact that it becoming a widespread practice would destroy the very fabric of society.

    Also, you can have principles guiding arbitrary beliefs if those principles themselves are arbitrary.
    The two things go hand in hand. The degree to which society is productive is contingent on how much freedom and liberty the inhabitants within that society have.

    I never denied that they were arbitrary at the core.






    Not everyone dies because they want to die.

    Most of them die against their will

  9. #3729
    Quote Originally Posted by Rax View Post
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    You want me to comment on a page that doesn't exist?

    Besides, based on the link this is ISIS' doing. The same ISIS that kills Muslims left and right and doesn't even recite the Quran.
    No.​

  10. #3730
    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    The two things go hand in hand. The degree to which society is productive is contingent on how much freedom and liberty the inhabitants within that society have.

    I never denied that they were arbitrary at the core.


    What? Where in the world do you get this stuff from? The exact opposite is true. Too much freedom has been consistently linked with the downfall of society and civilisation. Freedom and liberty need to be regulated, too much or too little both destroy society. If you don't understand this fact then you know nothing about how society works.

    Then your beliefs are meaningless and you have no right to tell me what's right and what's wrong.
    No.​

  11. #3731
    Red Hero Rax's Avatar
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  12. #3732
    ReXDrake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    You can if you're omnipotent. I'm not sure why this is such a hard concept to grasp for you.

    The only way to respect and admire God is to worship Him. Anything less is an insult. In the end, you'd be willing to throw yourself into Hell because you didn't want to listen to the being that created you and sustains you. How is that different from a child throwing themselves into a volcano because they didn't want to obey their parents?

    God's commands carry weight because they come from God. If He chooses to change them, as He has done in the past, the weight behind the commands doesn't change because the source of the weight is not the command itself but the source of the command (ie - God).
    That's a cop out and "answer to everything" sort of response. Omnipotence is a bullshit concept and theologians don't even agree with your idea of it

    That's garbage. Why do I have to put myself in a position of submission and inferiority to god to properly show my respect to him. Why does it matter whether I am respectful or not? I can peacefully coexist with my neighbour even if I internally want to kill them, so don't pretend that worshipping a god is the ONLY acceptable way I can live my life.

    You don't get it. That makes the concept of good and bad completely arbitrary, and you don't even now whether any particular thing will remain good/bad tomorrow or not.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    What? Where in the world do you get this stuff from? The exact opposite is true. Too much freedom has been consistently linked with the downfall of society and civilisation. Freedom and liberty need to be regulated, too much or too little both destroy society. If you don't understand this fact then you know nothing about how society works.

    Then your beliefs are meaningless and you have no right to tell me what's right and what's wrong.
    Okay then, be consistent and throw out EVERY SINGLE belief you hold to, because NOTHING IN ALL OF REALITY is objective or absolute in the purest sense.






    Not everyone dies because they want to die.

    Most of them die against their will

  13. #3733
    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    That's a cop out and "answer to everything" sort of response. Omnipotence is a bullshit concept and theologians don't even agree with your idea of it

    That's garbage. Why do I have to put myself in a position of submission and inferiority to god to properly show my respect to him. Why does it matter whether I am respectful or not? I can peacefully coexist with my neighbour even if I internally want to kill them, so don't pretend that worshipping a god is the ONLY acceptable way I can live my life.

    You don't get it. That makes the concept of good and bad completely arbitrary, and you don't even now whether any particular thing will remain good/bad tomorrow or not.

    I don't care what these so-called theologians think, I don't know why you keep bringing them up as if they know anything. Omnipotence is not something we're supposed to be able to make sense of.

    God isn't your neighbour, He's your creator and sustainer. You can't be respectful to God unless your worshipping Him, for He is perfect and worthy of worship.

    Good is what God commands and bad is what He forbids. Can't get simpler than that.


    Okay then, be consistent and throw out EVERY SINGLE belief you hold to, because NOTHING IN ALL OF REALITY is objective or absolute in the purest sense.
    Islam is.
    No.​

  14. #3734
    Magistrate of Hentai Ccrack's Avatar
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    god apparently made me knowing full well i wont worship him, and your telling me he expects me to do so?

    he must either not conform to the idea you have of him, or hes not real

  15. #3735
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    I don't care what these so-called theologians think, I don't know why you keep bringing them up as if they know anything. Omnipotence is not something we're supposed to be able to make sense of.

    God isn't your neighbour, He's your creator and sustainer. You can't be respectful to God unless your worshipping Him, for He is perfect and worthy of worship.

    Good is what God commands and bad is what He forbids. Can't get simpler than that.




    Islam is.
    That's a terrible answer. You cant posit omnipotence as an explanation if cannot even comprehend what the concept entails or explain how its theoretically possible.

    Why do I need to worship in order to be respectful? Because he says so? See how fucked up your argumentation is

    You don't understand the dilemma.



    ROFL. You cant even prove that things exist external to your mind, that your reasoning/memory is reliable, that the laws of logic are consistent or true, or that induction is valid, amongst other things. That immediately elimitates any possibility that you can have certainty.

    At the next step down, you cant verify the claims in your religion or prove gods existence in a probabilistic sense.

    If you disagree, please go ahead and make a case for ONE of the above points, and I will show you how you are incorrect
    Last edited by ReXDrake; 02-14-2018 at 04:04 AM.






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    Most of them die against their will

  16. #3736
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ccrack View Post
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    god apparently made me knowing full well i wont worship him, and your telling me he expects me to do so?

    he must either not conform to the idea you have of him, or hes not real

    He's not real.


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  17. #3737
    Quote Originally Posted by Rax View Post
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    60% of victims of all terrorist attacks are muslim. Go tell that to someone else.

  18. #3738
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    It's amusing how you just ignore everything else.

    Meanwhile TMF has Efege, a native and resident German, who is currently experiencing the mass Muslim immigration to Germany.


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  19. #3739
    Quote Originally Posted by Rax View Post
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    It's amusing how you just ignore everything else.

    Meanwhile TMF has Efege, a native and resident German, who is currently experiencing the mass Muslim immigration to Germany.
    And I live in a muslim majority country. If you think you or Efege know more about muslims than me then you're wrong.

  20. #3740
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Whitebeard View Post
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    And I live in a muslim majority country. If you think you or Efege know more about muslims than me then you're wrong.
    Tell me the country you live in.


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