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  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by The Bald Headed Negro View Post
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    Vista had a decent amount of showtime. You can dice it anyway you want but each crew has three top tiers outside of the captain who get a decent amount of panel time.

    Right, but that's not what's being discussed. Panel time is not the same as being a standout strength wise. Vista is unique in that he was able to do something like stall Mihawk despite not being a standout. There's a reason it was always Marco and Jozu that were highlighted alongside Whitebeard. Vista has never been highlighted in that manner.

  2. #22
    ReXDrake's Avatar
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    Also, vista has a rivalry with Yasopp, whos a standout of the Red Hair Pirates. All of these minor subtle parallels and symbolisms paint a clear picture when taken together

  3. #23
    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    Yeah he was. The combat scenes marco, jozu and vista were involved in were given the most emphasis out of all the WB commaders. Jozu intercepted Mihawk and Aokiji. Marco intercepted Aokiji, Akainu and Kizaru, and Vista intercepted Akainu and Mihawk. Then you've got those 3 being the only wb pirates recognizable in the flashback with shiki. Jozu and Marco clearly have more going for them, but vista is up there with them
    If Vista was up there with them, he would have been highlighted as being a part of that group. But he never was. He was obviously the next best thing after those guys, but he was very clearly not one of the monsters of the crew.

    Quote Originally Posted by Erkan12 View Post
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    Well, he was No.4, that was clear.



    He takes the command after Marco's and Jozu's defeats.
    Agreed. But he still wasn't one of the 'monsters' of the Whitebeard crew. There was a large difference between him and Jozu, that was made pretty clear with portrayal.

    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    Also, vista has a rivalry with Yasopp, whos a standout of the Red Hair Pirates. All of these minor subtle parallels and symbolisms paint a clear picture when taken together
    Yasopp has never been hinted at being one of the standouts in Shanks crew in the sense that we're using the term here. The very fact that he has a rivalry with Vista, and not with Marco or Jozu, proves this.
    Last edited by Pimp of Pimps; 07-17-2017 at 06:31 AM.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    If Vista was up there with them, he would have been highlighted as being a part of that group. But he never was. He was obviously the next best thing after those guys, but he was very clearly not one of the monsters of the crew.



    Agreed. But he still wasn't one of the 'monsters' of the Whitebeard crew. There was a large difference between him and Jozu, that as made pretty clear with portrayal.



    Yasopp has never been hinted at being one of the standouts in Shanks crew in the sense that we're using the term here. The very fact that he has a rivalry with Vista, and not with Marco or Jozu, proves this.
    Yeah he has, along with lucky roo and beckman. The things i mentioned ARE the evidence that vista was grouped together with jozu and marco

  5. #25
    Mfw Crispy/Allara posts The Bald Headed Negro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Right, but that's not what's being discussed. Panel time is not the same as being a standout strength wise. Vista is unique in that he was able to do something like stall Mihawk despite not being a standout. There's a reason it was always Marco and Jozu that were highlighted alongside Whitebeard. Vista has never been highlighted in that manner.
    Just because Vista wasn't shown in that panel doesn't mean he is not a standout. Every Yonko crew we have seen so far has a high end top tier (the captain) and three mid top tier crew members. Vista is one of those. Oda has made an effort to establish three subordinates in each crew who pose sizable threats. Whitebeard's crew is no different and is closer in structure to that of the Yonko than either Roger or Luffy's. Which makes sense considering he had been fighting the Yonko for years after Roger's death. It's even shown that one of Shanks' top crew members (Yasopp) has animosity towards Vista. And that there is a possible rivalry between them

    And you say that Vista is not a standout in spite of holding off Mihawk, when I say he is standout because of doing that. Arbitrary but the point is that if you use that to state he is a top tier why couldn't you use it to say he is a standout crew member? The concept of a Monster Trio is unique to the SHs and possibly to the Roger Pirates. As in the top three are relatively close and Sanji is arguably closer to Luffy than he is to Franky. The same cannot be said about Jozu being closer to WB than Vista.
    [IMG]i.imgur.com/xCZZCYR_d.jpg[/IMG]

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    Yeah he has, along with lucky roo and beckman. The things i mentioned ARE the evidence that vista was grouped together with jozu and marco
    No he hasn't. All we know is that Ben Beckman is the first mate. Having more screen time doesn't make you a standout in of itself. There's no proof that Yasopp is the third strongest after Shanks. Though I do think it's likely.

    And Vista has never been grouped with Marco and Jozu. It was ALWAYS Marco and Jozu, Marco and Jozu, up until Jozu got taken out of commission. Oda was very clear with his portrayal. It was Whitebeard, Marco, Jozu and then everyone else. Vista isn't in that group.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    No he hasn't. All we know is that Ben Beckman is the first mate. Having more screen time doesn't make you a standout in of itself. There's no proof that Yasopp is the third strongest after Shanks. Though I do think it's likely.

    And Vista has never been grouped with Marco and Jozu. It was ALWAYS Marco and Jozu, Marco and Jozu, up until Jozu got taken out of commission. Oda was very clear with his portrayal. It was Whitebeard, Marco, Jozu and then everyone else. Vista isn't in that group.
    By that logic Scopper isn't a standout either

  8. #28
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    Vista is portrayed as a strong commander but it is clear who gave orders and ran things around. Like Barrelthief said, Marco and Jozu were the right and left hand men. Marco was de facto a first mate, ordering other commanders(eg. Vista to fight Mihawk), assuming command once Whitebeard died, while as Jozu was right behind him.

    Whitebeard, Marco and Jozu are shown in the silhouettes when Sengoku is informed about the spy ships incident. Marco and Jozu also remove the fodder from the deck when Shanks arrives. When fighting Marco and Jozu are portrayed as a one man team, furthermore reinforced when they fight the Admirals together with Whitebeard. Vista is portrayed more with the other commanders, as a strong one but his hype mostly comes from holding Mihawk, which Marco ordered him to do. However Jozu was out for a good deal which forced him to step up to the game.
    Last edited by Borsalino; 07-17-2017 at 07:36 AM.

  9. #29
    Quote Originally Posted by The Bald Headed Negro View Post
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    Just because Vista wasn't shown in that panel doesn't mean he is not a standout. Every Yonko crew we have seen so far has a high end top tier (the captain) and three mid top tier crew members. Vista is one of those. Oda has made an effort to establish three subordinates in each crew who pose sizable threats. Whitebeard's crew is no different and is closer in structure to that of the Yonko than either Roger or Luffy's. Which makes sense considering he had been fighting the Yonko for years after Roger's death. It's even shown that one of Shanks' top crew members (Yasopp) has animosity towards Vista. And that there is a possible rivalry between them

    And you say that Vista is not a standout in spite of holding off Mihawk, when I say he is standout because of doing that. Arbitrary but the point is that if you use that to state he is a top tier why couldn't you use it to say he is a standout crew member? The concept of a Monster Trio is unique to the SHs and possibly to the Roger Pirates. As in the top three are relatively close and Sanji is arguably closer to Luffy than he is to Franky. The same cannot be said about Jozu being closer to WB than Vista.
    That's exactly what it means. Vista isn't one of the monsters, if he was he would have been highlighted as being one of them. You can't just go against all portrayal and declare Vista to be one of the monsters of the crew. I love Vista as much as the next guy, but Marco and Jozu would never be drawn blocking an attack from Ronse with help. There was a very clear gap between Jozu and everyone else, Vista included.

    No he hasn't. If you're talking about Emperor crews, that is objectively false. Cracker, for example, is not a sizable threat to an Admiral despite being a Sweet Commander. We do not know exactly how Shanks crew works either. Kaidou is the only one so far that seems to have three legit monsters under him. If we're discussing crews outside of the Emperor crews, then there are even more examples.

    It's not a concept unique to the Strawhats. Whitebeard, Marco and Jozu were highlighted because they are all much closer in power to one another than anyone else. Vista clearly isn't at that level of power. He seemed so close because at that level fights need to drag out before there's a clear winner, but if the fight started dragging on with Mihawk he wouldn't be holding his own.
    Last edited by Pimp of Pimps; 07-17-2017 at 06:52 AM.

  10. #30
    Quote Originally Posted by ReXDrake View Post
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    By that logic Scopper isn't a standout either

    Scopper is clearly the third strongest and has the same metal theme as Roger and Rayleigh.

    Yeah, maybe he isn't a standout but chances are slim to none.

  11. #31
    Banned Ava's Avatar
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    Don't really understand why so many of you are arguing with PoPs in this thread, literally everything he has posted in this thread makes perfect, logical sense but you guys refuse to see it for some weird reason, I don't understand why.

    Like the stuff PoPs is saying isn't even rocket science, why are so many of you having such a difficult time comprehending it?


  12. #32
    Emperor Pirate Erkan12's Avatar
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    Vista and Mihawk are portrayed as equals, that is more than enough to be a standoff.

    It's true that Marco and Jozu were portrayed as his superior, but that's because Marco and Jozu were stronger than Mihawk as well. That's how powerful Marco and Jozu were. I mean not every Yonko FM would get the near-hype as a freaking Yonko would get. They said Yonko could stop Teach, and maybe Marco and his remnants. Marco, Jozu were powerful enough to be close to a Yonko, that's how they were extremely powerful, even more than the average Yonko crews.

    Do you imagine if Shanks or Big Mom dies, they would say something like ''Perhaps Ben Beckman and remnants could stop him,'' or ''Perhaps Katakuri and the remnants could stop him,'' ...

    No.

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    Mihawk>Shanks
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    They clearly are too afraid to even think of actually challenging Mihawk
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    He was talking about PHYSICAL distance across the ice.
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    Zoro > Luffy

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    who actually gives a shit about Mihawk's title
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    Erkan is definitely making a strong point here.
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    BM wins midd to high diff.

  13. #33
    Banned Ava's Avatar
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    vista and mihawk trading a few blows with each other makes them equal???

    it's almost as if we didn't see hundreds of chapters of characters trading blows with each other before one of them won the fight, but hey I bet they are all equals as well

    this section never fails to make me laugh

  14. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erkan12 View Post
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    Is that a coincidence that only Blackbeard, Shiryu and Avalo Pizarro weren't wearing prisoner's uniform at MF ?
    Only ones who were wearing the prisoner uniform were the ones that BB freed from ID minus Avalo Pizarro, who might have something to do with level 5.5 of Impel Down.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barreltheif View Post
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    The yonkou all seem to have different structures. WB has a right hand and a left hand, Big Mom had four sweet commanders (and now has two), Kaido has three calamities, and we don't know about Shanks and Teach.
    I'm pretty sure Cracker is still alive.

  15. #35
    Emperor Pirate Erkan12's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ava View Post
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    vista and mihawk trading a few blows with each other makes them equal???
    No. Marco sending him to stop him alone, then Mihawk states that only a fool wouldn't know Vista's name and then fighting for 2 manga chapters without showing inferiority and then Mihawk asking permission to stop the fight makes them equals.

    Crocodile stopped Mihawk, but he was still weaker than Mihawk. That's different than what happened with Vista.

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    They clearly are too afraid to even think of actually challenging Mihawk
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    He was talking about PHYSICAL distance across the ice.
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    Zoro > Luffy

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    who actually gives a shit about Mihawk's title
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    Erkan is definitely making a strong point here.
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    BM wins midd to high diff.

  16. #36
    Banned Ava's Avatar
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    whoa look, zoro and kaku had an attack that equalled each other, i bet they're equals as well!!!111!



    or what about whitebeard and shanks, they split the sky together, they must also be equals (even though it said whitebeard was the strongest man, but lets ignore that because they were portrayed as equals)!!!!

    lets also ignore the strongest swordsman title and being zoro's final opponent, mihawk and vista are equals as well because they traded a few blows as well


  17. #37
    Yes.

    We need someone to fight Zoro, sanji, and jinbei. So black beard will have his three strong fighters.



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