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  1. #61
    Sword of the Morning Dellinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    You're comparing an entrance scene to random scenes during a fight. Talk about unfair.

    Here
    is an attack that looks just as good as any Gear 2nd move. His fighting style in general was much cooler before the Gears.
    You are comparing a double spread with a single page and you talk about being unfair ?

    http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online...9-page-16.html

    Is this an entrance scene also ?

  2. #62
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellinger View Post
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    You are comparing a double spread with a single page and you talk about being unfair ?

    http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online...9-page-16.html

    Is this an entrance scene also ?
    What does a double spread have to do with anything? There only point is that Oda was always able to show Luffy looking good and capable with just his basic abilities and not he looks completely inept most of the time before G4 comes out.

  3. #63
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellinger View Post
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    You are comparing a double spread with a single page and you talk about being unfair ?

    http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online...9-page-16.html

    Is this an entrance scene also ?

    So what if it's a double spread? What does that have to do with anything? It's still a scene that is just as good, or better, than most Gear 2nd scenes.

    That scene is nothing special. I'm not even sure why you posted it. What's so impressive about it?

    There are plenty of cool scenes before the Gears and, like I said before, Luffy's fighting style was just cooler before the Gears.

    Luffy vs Wiper, for example, is probably better than any fight in part two by far. Most people wanna see actual combat skill, not just blurs and craters.

  4. #64
    Yeah, Luffy's fights were more enjoyable before he started spamming Gears. He used to occasionally use strategy in fights, now his only strategy is punching harder

    - - - Updated - - -

    Guess you can count the Cracker fight, but it being a whack fight overall brings it down.

    I've always been adamant about missing gearless Luffy. Was never a fan of the gears in general

  5. #65
    Quote Originally Posted by ravemastersieg View Post
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    Yeah, Luffy's fights were more enjoyable before he started spamming Gears. He used to occasionally use strategy in fights, now his only strategy is punching harder

    Yup. Beyond just strategy though, he showed actual skill.

    Actually, to a lesser extent, this is true for all the Strawhats. Sigh.

  6. #66
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellinger View Post
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    Seriously ? His hits don't look as good as his G2 ones,period.Heck compare these 2 panels

    http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online...3-page-11.html


    http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online...7-page-12.html

    http://mangaseeonline.us/read-online...7-page-13.html

    Which one makes for a more impactful attack ?




    Could you post panels instead of just talking ? Find me pages where base Luffy's attacks look better than G2.
    Do did you only start reading One Piece from the time skip? I'm not trying to insult you but I just find it really odd that you only use more recent chapters (aside form Chapter 1) and don't seem to remember anything of Luffy before the time skip. For example, it baffles me that you didn't think of Alabasta, Jaya, or Skypiea.







    The point here is not whether one looks better than another. The point here is that Base Luffy attacks have looked incredible and saying that they look bad in comparison (and don't or can't show great impact) is just plain false because, again, Oda has drawn many fights with Luffy that are excellent without the use of Gears. Saying otherwise is just ignorant and only playing favorites.
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  7. #67
    Sword of the Morning Dellinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pacifista View Post
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    Do did you only start reading One Piece from the time skip? I'm not trying to insult you but I just find it really odd that you only use more recent chapters (aside form Chapter 1) and don't seem to remember anything of Luffy before the time skip. For example, it baffles me that you didn't think of Alabasta, Jaya, or Skypiea.







    The point here is not whether one looks better than another. The point here is that Base Luffy attacks have looked incredible and saying that they look bad in comparison (and don't or can't show great impact) is just plain false because, again, Oda has drawn many fights with Luffy that are excellent without the use of Gears. Saying otherwise is just ignorant and only playing favorites.
    DO I really have to bring every page and compare them with his base punches ? Also where did I say that Oda hasn't drawn excellent fights with base Luffy ? I said that G2 and G3 are visually more impressive than base which is exactly why Oda spams them.It adds to the cool factor whether you like it or not.

    All I see from this thread is that you guys are mad because somehow the gears make Luffy look weak which is absolutely nonsensical.You don't like them because they don't fit with your powerscaling.

  8. #68
    Tony Tony Chopper Haki-User's Avatar
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    I think G4 should not even exist. I rather see him in his normal character design taking down his opponents. Oda should make Luffy stronger with g2/g3 plain and simple. His fights would be better if G4 did not exist.

    If characters without devil fruits can get ridiculously strong without a steroid boost like G4, Luffy should be able to do the same with just g2/g3.

  9. #69
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellinger View Post
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    DO I really have to bring every page and compare them with his base punches ? Also where did I say that Oda hasn't drawn excellent fights with base Luffy ? I said that G2 and G3 are visually more impressive than base which is exactly why Oda spams them.It adds to the cool factor whether you like it or not.

    All I see from this thread is that you guys are mad because somehow the gears make Luffy look weak which is absolutely nonsensical.You don't like them because they don't fit with your powerscaling.
    This supposed cool factor is what ruins fights.

    And it's factually incorrect to say Gear 2nd is visually more impressive by default. You're the only one arguing this.

    Right, let's see base Luffy so anything noteworthy then we'll talk. No one else needs these kind of power ups. Luffy does because he's become weak.

  10. #70
    Sword of the Morning Dellinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    This supposed cool factor is what ruins fights.

    And it's factually incorrect to say Gear 2nd is visually more impressive by default. You're the only one arguing this.

    Right, let's see base Luffy so anything noteworthy then we'll talk. No one else needs these kind of power ups. Luffy does because he's become weak.
    Base Luffy was smacking Doflamingo.Base Luffy could easily keep up with the legendary Chinjao.These better actually than what most around his level have done.Or are we gonna forget that to help our argument ?

  11. #71
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellinger View Post
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    Base Luffy was smacking Doflamingo.Base Luffy could easily keep up with the legendary Chinjao.These better actually than what most around his level have done.Or are we gonna forget that to help our argument ?

    Neither of those are true. He was not smacking Doflamingo around without the Gears. At best he managed to land a few attacks in base, but they didn't amount to much. With Chinjao he clashed once in base and then the next time we saw him he was using Gear 2nd again.

    And the point isn't whether or not he can fight so and so without Gears, it's the fact that the Gears are such a massive power up that his base looks abysmally weak in comparison. This is a fact. No one else seems to need powerups at all, at best they have special skills that are deadly but rarely outright powerups. Luffy is one of the few characters that needs powerups to be relevant. Zoro would eat Luffy alive if Luffy didn't have the Gears.

  12. #72
    Sword of the Morning Dellinger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pimp of Pimps View Post
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    Neither of those are true. He was not smacking Doflamingo around without the Gears. At best he managed to land a few attacks in base, but they didn't amount to much. With Chinjao he clashed once in base and then the next time we saw him he was using Gear 2nd again.

    And the point isn't whether or not he can fight so and so without Gears, it's the fact that the Gears are such a massive power up that his base looks abysmally weak in comparison. This is a fact. No one else seems to need powerups at all, at best they have special skills that are deadly but rarely outright powerups. Luffy is one of the few characters that needs powerups to be relevant. Zoro would eat Luffy alive if Luffy didn't have the Gears.
    Luffy only used Gear 2nd against Chinjao once with his Hawk Rifle.We see parts of the fight and he was fighting in base.He also stopped Cracker from killing Pound but let's forget about that also.


    Why are you ignoring what's been shown in the manga again ? Remember the fight with the PH dragon ? Zoro didn't even look better than base and G2 Luffy until he used his strongest one sword attack.At least Luffy's attacks staggered the dragon,Zoro got his ultra hunt stopped and was having problems pushing against it.The difference is not as big as you are implying.

    Heck even the Sanji stuff.Remember where Sanji was using his full strength as he said to beat Luffy down ? He couldn't even knock him down,Luffy was still standing and only got down after Concasse or whatever it was.Luffy knocked Sanji down with a single base punch,no hardening.

    The showings are there,you guys are just ignoring them.
    Last edited by Dellinger; 07-16-2017 at 03:53 AM.

  13. #73
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellinger View Post
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    Luffy only used Gear 2nd against Chinjao once with his Hawk Rifle.We see parts of the fight and he was fighting in base.He also stopped Cracker from killing Pound but let's forget about that also.


    Why are you being so dishonest again ? Remember the fight with the PH dragon ? Zoro didn't even look better than base and G2 Luffy until he used his strongest one sword attack.At least Luffy's attacks staggered the dragon,Zoro got his ultra hunt stopped and was having problems pushing against it.The difference is not as big as you are implying.

    Heck even the Sanji stuff.Remember where Sanji was using his full strength as he said to beat Luffy down ? He couldn't even knock him down,Luffy was still standing and only got down after Concasse or whatever it was.Luffy knocked Sanji down with a single base punch,no hardening.

    The showings are there,you guys are just ignoring them.


    What exactly is that supposed to prove? He doesn't use Gears 2nd and 3rd as modes anymore, so of course we're gonna see him in base while fighting. The point is that he needs the Gears to be relevant. That's why he uses them for literally every other move. That was not the case preskip.

    I'm not the one being dishonest, you are. That's not how the dragon fight went down. The very first attack Luffy used was a Gear 2nd attack, the dragon attacked Zoro and was clashed with it, Luffy kicked the dragon in the gut, Luffy made the dragon bite it's own wing then Zoro cut its head off. Then you go to emphasize how Luffy's attack staggered the dragon when Zoro's literally killed it. Luffy has been woefully unimpressive without the Gears, Zoro would destroy him.

    So what? the majority admit Sanji has fallen behind. Was it a good showing for Luffy? Yes. does is change the fact that's he's relatively weak without the Gears? No.

  14. #74
    Hell no, it's the best thing to have happened in the series since the timeskip.

  15. #75
    Quote Originally Posted by Dellinger View Post
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    DO I really have to bring every page and compare them with his base punches ? Also where did I say that Oda hasn't drawn excellent fights with base Luffy ? I said that G2 and G3 are visually more impressive than base which is exactly why Oda spams them.It adds to the cool factor whether you like it or not.

    All I see from this thread is that you guys are mad because somehow the gears make Luffy look weak which is absolutely nonsensical.You don't like them because they don't fit with your powerscaling.
    Powerscaling? My issue here is powerscaling? I'm mad because it doesn't fit my powerscaling? My fundamental issue here is that it doesn't "fit" my powerscaling? Do you really think that's the issue? That I've read this series every week for around a decade because of powerscaling? That I'm not talking about a fundamental issue with the story, portrayal, and consistency of the manga and the decline of its writing?

    If you honestly think this is my issue then the point is flying so far over your head that it's in a different galaxy.
    Last edited by Pacifista; 07-16-2017 at 08:52 AM.
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